Moses law in stone vs. Christ’s law in our hearts.

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

The Lord gave Moses the law in stone, and the Lord is truth, yet that law is inadequate. Christ put the law into our hearts.

The law in stone is fleshly, to be obeyed by the letter of the law. God is spirit, not flesh, so the true law is not the fleshly letter of the law, it is the law of the spirit. All the laws of the OT reflect this. The Lord gave physical commands and rewards to teach the law of the spirit--- like circumcision. When they cut flesh and made a mark to show they were different from pagans and belonged to God, the symbol of circumcision was to teach the law of the spirit. When Christ put the law in our hearts, we are not to use the fleshly commands any longer, but listen to the holy spirit within us.

The Lord gave us a universal command we are to check all law against, for all true law reflects this universal law.

Luke 10:26-27 What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

2ndTimothyGroup · Apr 12, 2022

Romans 8:2-4 NLT - "And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit."

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

Colossians 2:13 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

We are not to use the law for the forgiveness of sin, only Christ can do that, but scripture tells us to use the law.

We are to use the law to make us conscious of our sin. What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin.” (Romans 7:7)

The law teaches us the way we should go. “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you. Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding, which must be curbed with bit and bridle, or it will not stay near you.”PSALM 32:8-9

It is through the law that the righteousness of God is made known and it testifies to the righteousness of God. Romans 3:21-22 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe.

2ndTimothyGroup · Apr 12, 2022

NLT - "Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham."

So Important: 1 Peter 01:05 tells us that the Indwelling Holy Spirit is much like the Law of Moses, in that the Spirit is a Living Guardian who Guarantees what is to come. The Law could not guarantee anything, for the Law was merely inscribed upon tablets of stone. 1 Peter 1:5 ESV - ". . . who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5 NLT - "And through your faith, God is protecting you by his power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see." - By the way, this is the same protection that God gave Abraham.

Everlasting-Grace · Apr 12, 2022

The law of moses, also known as the ministers of death written in stone. We’re given for one purpose; To prove to us we are sinners and have failed to Keep Gods standard.

The law given to moses was not given to show us how to live righteously. They were not met for that reason, and do not have the power or capability of doing that

studentoftheword · Apr 12, 2022

Blik said:

Unbelievers are still under the law ------Believers Have the Holy Spirit who convicts us when we sin -----we don't need the law to make us conscious of sin -------

! Timothy 9
ASV
as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

2ndTimothyGroup · Apr 12, 2022

The Law is Holy, Good, and Just. The Laws were beautiful! (Not "ministers of death.)

Romans 7:12 KJV - "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

studentoftheword · Apr 12, 2022

read here ----
https://www.bible.ca/7-10-commandments-abolished-2-Corinthians-3.htm

2 Corinthians 3 states four times that the 10 commandments are abolished.

A. Four times the 10 commandments are abolished!

the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones ... abolished [fading] v7
ministry of condemnation... abolished [fades away] v9,11
the old covenant... is abolished [removed] in Christ, v14
but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil [10 commandments] is abolished [taken away] v16

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

NLT - "Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming God cancelled the law? If there is no law there is chaos. God is a God of order and good, not of mayhem and chaos.

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

studentoftheword said:

One of the ten commandments is not to murder. Surely you can't interpret scripture as saying God cancelled this command? Do you think it is OK to murder?

studentoftheword · Apr 12, 2022

Blik said:

You don't have to murder someone to be a murderer ----all you have to do is hate your brother ----and |God says your a murderer------

1 John 3:15-17 AMP

15 Everyone who hates (works against) his brother [in Christ] is [at heart] a murderer [by God’s standards]; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know [and have come to understand the depth and essence of His precious] love: that He [willingly] laid down His life for us [because He loved us]. And we ought to lay down our lives for the believers. 17 But whoever has the [a]world’s goods (adequate resources), and sees his brother in need, but has no compassion for him, how does the love of God live in him?

I say ---
No man can keep the law -----the letter of the Law kills -----Trying to keep the laws is futile ---as the Law brought in the Curse which brings spiritual death ------

The Law God gave is perfect ----but we humans are flawed and can't keep the perfect laws ---so your trying to keep something that you cannot keep ----fruitless ------

Jesus says this -----about adultery ---one of the laws -----

MATTHEW 5:28

AMP
but I say to you that everyone who [so much as] looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I say --So if you even just think that you would like to kill a person for what they did -----then you have committed the murder already in your heart ------so that is how crazy it is for people to think they are all that that they can keep the law ------

Anyone who has the Holy Spirit ------the Holy Spirit will convict the person who is even thinking of committing a sin -----You don't need the law ----

From Google
What is the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer?

How does the Holy Spirit work? There are many ways that the Holy Spirit works in the lives of Christians, but they all share one common goal: to make us more like Jesus Christ. He works in believers by renewing our minds to be like the mind of Christ. He does this by convicting us of sin and leading us to repentance

I say
The law brings the Curse and Spiritual Death

Romans 8

Amplified Bible

Escape from Bondage
8 Therefore there is now no condemnation [no guilty verdict, no punishment] for those who are in Christ Jesus [who believe in Him as personal Lord and Savior].

2 For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

3 For what the Law could not do [that is, overcome sin and remove its penalty, its power] being weakened by the flesh [man’s nature without the Holy Spirit],

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

studentoftheword said:

Christ tells us that if we love him we will obey him, and yet you are telling me that God does not want us to obey Christ, that because we can't do it perfectly then we should not let the law guide us. That makes no sense.

The ministry of the holy spirit contains all of God's laws, and if you listen to the holy spirit within you, you listen to the law. Christ cannot be a part sin, we must be forgiven of our sin if we want Christ to live within us with the holy spirit.

The law tells us what kills us, but it also guides us as we live for Christ. It is not the law that kills, it is disobeying the law and not going to Christ for forgiveness that kills.
If you refuse to listen as the Lord tells you how to obey him, and what we are to be forgiven for, or how to live for Christ, how can you even pretend to be a Christian?

2ndTimothyGroup · Apr 12, 2022

Blik said:

Until a person is willing to look at all passages that concern the concept of "law," getting said person to understand and change position is, for the most part, a waste of time. However, I applaud you for trying. I have become so bored with typing the same things over and over, I barely want to share these days.

JAPOV · Apr 12, 2022

The law was given to again remind us that WE ARE NOT GODS, WE ARE NOT PERFECT!

Even in the Spirit we continue to sin, we even sin in our own ignorance, even the Spirit does not make us perfect!

However, in God's perfect love and forgiveness through Christ, our imperfection is overlooked as long as we strive to repent.

We are saved by faith alone least any man should boast. Even faith is a gift of God. We can not will ourselves to perfection, we can only thank God for forgiveness and repent.

God's law is an illustration of His perfection and is just as eternal as Himself, it will never change.

studentoftheword · Apr 12, 2022

Blik said:

No it doesn't ---There is no faith in obeying the law ----you need faith in Christ to serve Him ----what your trying to do is to mix the Old Covenant with the New Covenant ----which is fruitless ------God hates mixture ---your displaying a double minded man -----your unstable by mixing the 2 Covenants ------your only luke warm --your neater hot or cold ----and God says he will spew you out of His mouth ----- you can't serve 2 masters ---you can't keep the law and serve Christ who requires Faith in the unseen ------the law you see and and can't keep it -----no matter how hard you try to say you can keep it ---you can't -----

The law is no longer needed -----the Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin ---not the law -----

So good luck when you meet God on the other side -----and he says this to you -----about how you are mixing the Old with the New ---and how your Lukewarmness will affect your spiritual outcome ------

Mark 2 :22

New International Version
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.

Revelation 3:15-16 - I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Now here is the thing --if you want to believe that the law is needed to live like Christ then that is one thing and OK for you ------But don't sent others to their doom by preaching False Doctrine ----the Scripture clearly says that when God makes a New Covenant --The Old has passed away ------

Hebrews 8 clearly says this ---and that is what you need to tell others --to keep with the scriptures ---not to believe what you believe ----pretty clear --------

New American Standard Bible
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

Amplified Bible
When God speaks of “A new covenant,” He makes the first one obsolete. And whatever is becoming obsolete (out of use, annulled) and growing old is ready to disappear.

Blik · Apr 12, 2022

studentoftheword said:

How can you say you have faith in Christ when you are counselling not to listen to what Christ tells us?

In the sermon on the mount, Christ told us he did nothing to change what His Father God said, then he explained the new covenant. It was a difference in how God communicated with us, not in stone by the letter of the law but through our hearts.

He gave law from the old covenant given in stone, then said it was to be obeyed through love in the heart.

Your teaching of scripture interpretation amounts to teaching disobedience and that it is OK to sin, just go ahead! There is absolutely no scripture that asks us to purposely sin. We are to follow Christ, and Christ was sin free.

Jocund · Apr 12, 2022

Blik said:

I think you are missing sotw's point.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." - John 14:23-26 KJV

Jesus states here that the Holy Spirit will guide your understanding correctly. Paul expands on this concept later.

Righteousness is not necessarily going to be understood by reading the handwritten ordinances of the OT. In fact, those ordinances are blotted out.

When we read the NT for guidance, it speaks of having love for one another. Ordinances of the OT such as not eating pork or shellfish are gone away except in circumstances where something is partaken of without faith, or at the jeopardy of another's faith. But this isn't an invitation to follow the strictest path. We see this when Paul chastises those that say that OT ordinances are required for salvation.

"I wish that those who are troubling you by teaching that [physical] circumcision is necessary for salvation would even go all the way and castrate themselves!" - Gal 5:12 AMP

One's faith could lead one to follow OT ordinances (it is permissible) but the ordinances by themselves are unrelated to salvation. And if something is done without faith (ordinances included) that is sin. Anything done without faith is sin.

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." - Romans 14:23 KJV

Carry_Your_Name · Apr 12, 2022

Here're two biggest problems with laws engraved in stone - first, there's a tendency to develop those laws into traditions that weren't originally in the laws, and over time these traditions have effectively replaced the laws. That was one thing that the pharisees were guilty of.

Another is the loopholes. There's always cleaver practices to do stuffs that are essentially lawless without breaking the laws. For example, frequent marriage and divorce for any reason in Kardashian style, which legally keeps sex within wedlock, but totally undermines the purpose of the commandment that prohibits adultery. Put that in a modern day context, in the NT fornication is off limits, and you've probably heard that a lot of young people have vowed to save themselves for marriage; but if I spend a lovely time with a woman outside of wedlock, receiving a handjob, having a bath, using sex toys, doing all kinds of intimate, lecentious acts EXCEPT VAGINAL INTERCOURSE, then technically I didn't commit fornication; but by Jesus's standard, by lusting for a woman with my eyes, I've already committed adultery in my heart, whether I really did it or not.

Jesus confronted the pharisees in many occasions and exposed both problems in His ministry. As long as sinful nature prevails, there's always a desire to go either of these directions. The heart of the problem is the problem of the heart.

2ndTimothyGroup · Apr 12, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:

And aren't we lucky that Paul cleared this up for us . . . in terms of how to deal with the problem of the heart.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

This Circumcision of the Heart by Christ alone is what separates us from the Sinful Nature. And once a person has been separated from the Adamic Curse, there is no need for laws on stone (for the Jews) nor laws that judge and accuse Gentiles. These worldly laws are replaced by the same basic set of Laws that are governed and given Power by the Holy Spirit. These Spiritual Laws are Effectual . . . meaning, they cause us to change just as the Law of Gravity pulls as it only can.

Who can say that they know, for sure, that they have received the Circumcision of Christ . . . the Circumcision made without human hands?

Carry_Your_Name · Apr 12, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Yes, but the habit loop of cue, routine and reward still exists. I've read that book about the power of habits. The conclusion is, cues can't be eliminated, they'll always be there, and there's also a longing for the reward as well, the only thing you can do is to change the routine. Translate that into Christianese, although Christ paid the full penalty of our sin by bearing all of it on the cross, our sinful nature still exists as long as we live, but if we follow the Holy Spirit and walk in the newness of life, the old desire for pleasure is replaced with new desire for God, and only then can we have true satisfaction.

Moses law in stone vs. Christ’s law in our hearts.

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