Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection
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i have been water baptised as instructed in the Gospel. i was FULLY SAVED/BORN-AGAIN a year before i was water baptized.
There was no benefit of the water baptism except to obey Christ in faith - period.
Do not confuse Mark 16:16 with John 3:1-21
Jesus never mentioned water baptism in John 3:1-21
The Apostle Peter mentions water baptism as it truly is = symbolic = 1 Peter 3:21
Apostle Peter stresses in his Epistles the BLOOD and the WORD and FAITH.
In Revelation, water baptism is not mentioned at all - not even once.
The only elements that are of Eternal Value unto the FATHER are the Blood of the LAMB, Faith and the Holy Spirit.
There was no benefit of the water baptism except to obey Christ in faith - period.
Do not confuse Mark 16:16 with John 3:1-21
Jesus never mentioned water baptism in John 3:1-21
The Apostle Peter mentions water baptism as it truly is = symbolic = 1 Peter 3:21
Apostle Peter stresses in his Epistles the BLOOD and the WORD and FAITH.
In Revelation, water baptism is not mentioned at all - not even once.
The only elements that are of Eternal Value unto the FATHER are the Blood of the LAMB, Faith and the Holy Spirit.
"The idea that water baptism is necessary to qualify for receiving a glorified (resurrection) body is refuted by a single verse, which is in the same chapter. "
You're refuting scripture with scripture. The scripture does say water baptism is necessary for this and I already showed that in the OP. You're trying to find contradictions in the scripture just to make it seem like this is wrong, but you're taking it all way out of context.
You're refuting scripture with scripture. The scripture does say water baptism is necessary for this and I already showed that in the OP. You're trying to find contradictions in the scripture just to make it seem like this is wrong, but you're taking it all way out of context.
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John 3:5 - Should not be seen as having anything to do with "water baptism". Water baptism is an ordinance for the believer. He/she is to follow the Lord in it - out of a good conscience and is the first act of obedience to the Lord.
Here in John 3:5, water is part of the cleansing, the Holy Spirit does upon one, so as to change their present disposition. See what was said in Ezekiel:
Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
The Holy Spirit's Work, in Regeneration, has multiple parts:
1.) To Cleanse one like water.
2.) To provide a New Heart
3.) To be in the Believer. This causes one to walk in the Lord's statutes and ordinances.
Please note also, that John 3:3 &6, do not mention water.
Also, the thief on the cross, is never mentioned as having been baptized and yet, the Lord promised him, he would be in Paradise that very day. A person, not having the opportunity to be baptized, will in no way stop the Lord from delivering that one into completed Salvation.
Here in John 3:5, water is part of the cleansing, the Holy Spirit does upon one, so as to change their present disposition. See what was said in Ezekiel:
Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
The Holy Spirit's Work, in Regeneration, has multiple parts:
1.) To Cleanse one like water.
2.) To provide a New Heart
3.) To be in the Believer. This causes one to walk in the Lord's statutes and ordinances.
Please note also, that John 3:3 &6, do not mention water.
Also, the thief on the cross, is never mentioned as having been baptized and yet, the Lord promised him, he would be in Paradise that very day. A person, not having the opportunity to be baptized, will in no way stop the Lord from delivering that one into completed Salvation.
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That's possibly due to the fact that everyone in the geographical area was already baptized.
Mark 1:4-5
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
That's great information, but what's with all of the talk about water baptism in Romans 6? I want to look at places where baptism is mentioned to see how this incorporates into the broader context of the Bible.
Romans 6:4-5
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Okay so all of this talk about water baptism in the NT. Do you believe water baptism just simply does nothing and it's just something to do if you feel like it?
Consider that Jesus said water baptism is about fulfilling all righteousness. Yes, water baptism isn't just a hollow, impotent, pointless, splishy splashy fun time, it's actually a righteous act:
Mark 3:14,15
14And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
Mark 1:4-5
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
That's great information, but what's with all of the talk about water baptism in Romans 6? I want to look at places where baptism is mentioned to see how this incorporates into the broader context of the Bible.
Romans 6:4-5
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Okay so all of this talk about water baptism in the NT. Do you believe water baptism just simply does nothing and it's just something to do if you feel like it?
Consider that Jesus said water baptism is about fulfilling all righteousness. Yes, water baptism isn't just a hollow, impotent, pointless, splishy splashy fun time, it's actually a righteous act:
Mark 3:14,15
14And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
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I am glad you enjoyed the information. But baptism is not needed for the resurrection of the body. Not if you mean Baptism in the normal sense. The Resurrection body is guaranteed to the believer. First the Lord said this about the temporal body we now inherit:
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Paul then had this to say:
1Cor_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
In order that believers may enter the Kingdom - they must put on the body made from God - The Glorified body. There will not be Saints walking around with unglorified bodies and others with glorified bodies. Nor will their be those that are disembodied souls.
Flesh and blood is our present "temporal" and terrestrial vessel. We must be clothed with the "eternal" and extraterrestrial vessel. This is required to be like Christ and see Him as He is and be like His body.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Paul then had this to say:
1Cor_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
In order that believers may enter the Kingdom - they must put on the body made from God - The Glorified body. There will not be Saints walking around with unglorified bodies and others with glorified bodies. Nor will their be those that are disembodied souls.
Flesh and blood is our present "temporal" and terrestrial vessel. We must be clothed with the "eternal" and extraterrestrial vessel. This is required to be like Christ and see Him as He is and be like His body.
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Go back and read the OP.
I also might add that I'm not incorrect. So from my perspective you're just attacking the Bible. You should try to harmonize scripture, not refute the scripture or your perceived misinterpretations of the scripture. You've done nothing to offer an alternative explanation for what I unpacked in the OP.
I also might add that I'm not incorrect. So from my perspective you're just attacking the Bible. You should try to harmonize scripture, not refute the scripture or your perceived misinterpretations of the scripture. You've done nothing to offer an alternative explanation for what I unpacked in the OP.
AMEN to "Permit it so for now.....fulfill all righteousness."
What is JESUS saying here = this is part of Will of God, let's get it done and move on to Higher Ground.
Like when the Priests had to step in the Jordan before the waters parted = an act of faith at the direction of the LORD.
Water baptism is 100% symbolic just as Peter and Paul express in their Epistles, and John never mentions water baptism in his Epistles.
It is purely outward, has no effect upon the soul/spirit of a man, it is purely an act of obedience/faith and is a 'one and done' act.
Water baptism is the 'baby step' that we take to move on with the Plan of God for maturity.
Water baptism is the outward expression of identifying with Christ's Death and Resurrection = only symbolic and 'one and done'.
After water baptism we leave it behind us and MOVE FORWARD to HIGHER GROUND.
Right, Paul doesn't suggest that Jesus didn't rise from the dead- but the people he is rebuking were saying that.
12Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
Then he goes on to contradict the people he is correcting
20But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Then he goes on to explain how ridiculous it is for us to carry on this religion if there is no resurrection. (because if there is no resurrection, our religion is fake). His three rhetorical questions are aimed at resurrection deniers.
29Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30And why do we stand in [e]jeopardy every hour? 31I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”
What will they do, they who are baptized for the dead? (Paul actually answered this question already. They will perish) And if they will perish then... Why then are they baptized for the dead? You're going to perish anyway, so what would be the point? His third question Why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? would actually have a rational answer if there was a salvation apart from resurrection... but he's not looking for a rational answer, here. He's clearly trying to express that he would not be putting his own butt on the line without the reality of the resurrection.
12Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
Then he goes on to contradict the people he is correcting
20But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Then he goes on to explain how ridiculous it is for us to carry on this religion if there is no resurrection. (because if there is no resurrection, our religion is fake). His three rhetorical questions are aimed at resurrection deniers.
29Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30And why do we stand in [e]jeopardy every hour? 31I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”
What will they do, they who are baptized for the dead? (Paul actually answered this question already. They will perish) And if they will perish then... Why then are they baptized for the dead? You're going to perish anyway, so what would be the point? His third question Why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? would actually have a rational answer if there was a salvation apart from resurrection... but he's not looking for a rational answer, here. He's clearly trying to express that he would not be putting his own butt on the line without the reality of the resurrection.
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FreeGrace2 said:
No, I'm using v.23 which REFUTES your incorrect understanding of v.29.
No, you SAID it, but you didn't "show" it.
No, I've easily found contradictions in YOUR interpretations.
I don't need to. You need to accept the clear words of 1 Cor 15:23. All believers will be resurrected "when He comes". No requirement for baptism mentioned.
The premise in the OP is flawed.
In fact, I am strongly disagreeing with YOUR faulty understanding of v.29.
I have harmonized Scripture. Which is why YOUR fuzzy interpretation of v.29 cannot be possible.
No, I simply noted what Paul wrote BEFORE he wrote v.29. All believers will be resurrected "when He comes".
No, I'm using v.23 which REFUTES your incorrect understanding of v.29.
No, you SAID it, but you didn't "show" it.
No, I've easily found contradictions in YOUR interpretations.
I don't need to. You need to accept the clear words of 1 Cor 15:23. All believers will be resurrected "when He comes". No requirement for baptism mentioned.
The premise in the OP is flawed.
In fact, I am strongly disagreeing with YOUR faulty understanding of v.29.
I have harmonized Scripture. Which is why YOUR fuzzy interpretation of v.29 cannot be possible.
No, I simply noted what Paul wrote BEFORE he wrote v.29. All believers will be resurrected "when He comes".
Wrong.
So what does that have to do with anything?
There was no mention in Rev 4;13 either...of the requirement for baptism. That does not change the Bible requiring baptism;
Baptism is Required.
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
Intentional misquoting Scripture is a SIN. The Apostle Peter never said water baptism saves us.
1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21There is also SYMBOLIC of which now saves us - baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
i never said to anyone at any time or to any of the 'religious' here on CC, do not get water baptized.
i always agree with scripture, which is why = i have been water baptized, but it did not save me or anyone!!!
What saves us is exactly what the Scripture says = "the answer of a good conscience toward God" = FAITH & OBEDIENCE
lol of the month = misquoting Galatian 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The Baptism that now saves us is not wet water but the WORD mixed with FAITH by the HOLY SPIRIT.
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
Notice the comparison of water to the WORD = water baptism is purely SYMBOLIC of the WORD which is TRUTH.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word(of God).
CONCLUSION: Religion is the outward flesh that opposes the inward working of the HOLY SPIRIT.
1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21There is also SYMBOLIC of which now saves us - baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
i never said to anyone at any time or to any of the 'religious' here on CC, do not get water baptized.
i always agree with scripture, which is why = i have been water baptized, but it did not save me or anyone!!!
What saves us is exactly what the Scripture says = "the answer of a good conscience toward God" = FAITH & OBEDIENCE
lol of the month = misquoting Galatian 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The Baptism that now saves us is not wet water but the WORD mixed with FAITH by the HOLY SPIRIT.
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
Notice the comparison of water to the WORD = water baptism is purely SYMBOLIC of the WORD which is TRUTH.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word(of God).
CONCLUSION: Religion is the outward flesh that opposes the inward working of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Willow said:
There are several baptisms in the bible. Seems you are characterizing all them into one . It is not as simple as that. Water baptism does not get you into heaven or left out. Thank God for that ,the thief on the cross would not of went.
But everyone knows that all of those who go to heaven will be in that resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23 includes all saved people, who are going to heaven.
There are several baptisms in the bible. Seems you are characterizing all them into one . It is not as simple as that. Water baptism does not get you into heaven or left out. Thank God for that ,the thief on the cross would not of went.
But everyone knows that all of those who go to heaven will be in that resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23 includes all saved people, who are going to heaven.