Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[FreeGrace2]

I don’t see any contradictions in the Bible or “my interpretation” as you say.

Well, of course you don't. You're still arguing about it.

You claim a believer must be water baptized in order to receive a glorified body, because of your take on 1 Cor 15:29.
But 1 Cor 15:23 indicates that ALL saved people will be resurrected "when He comes". That is a conflict and contradiction, whether you compreehend that or not.

Point them out exactly. Do you disagree with Romans 6 that says if you’re baptized you will be be resurrected like Jesus?

Please include a specific verse number so I can see what it says.

As Willow pointed out, there are many different baptisms in Scripture. You can't lump them all into one wet ritual.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Baptism is Required.

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

Wow. Talk about being misleading. Let's look at 2 verses here.

20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water (literal water) symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In v.20 Peter notes that Noah + 7 were saved FROM water. Yes, the word in the verse is "through", and it means they were carried safely through the water that killed all living beings on the earth. iow, all that were BAPTIZED (immersed) in literal water DIED.

Same principle at the Red Sea. The entire Egyptian army got BAPTIZED and DIED. The Israelites were saved THROUGH the water. They stayed bone dry.

Now to v.21, which you didn't quote completely. Peter is clearly saying that literal water is a SYMBOL for the baptism that DOES save you.

So, what in the world was he talking about? Let's consider what a famous baptizer once said about baptism.

Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs the moment a person believes in Christ. He indwells the believer. Read Acts 10 and 11 which explains the conversion of Cornelius and his family. When they believed, they received the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To be "born of water" is a reference to being physically born.
To be "born of the Spirit" is a reference to being spiritually born.

 

[Runningman]

Well, of course you don't. You're still arguing about it.

You claim a believer must be water baptized in order to receive a glorified body, because of your take on 1 Cor 15:29.
But 1 Cor 15:23 indicates that ALL saved people will be resurrected "when He comes". That is a conflict and contradiction, whether you compreehend that or not.


Please include a specific verse number so I can see what it says.

As Willow pointed out, there are many different baptisms in Scripture. You can't lump them all into one wet ritual.

I included all of the relevant information in the OP. Again, go back and read the OP. How many times do I have to tell you this.

 

[Runningman]

To be "born of water" is a reference to being physically born.
To be "born of the Spirit" is a reference to being spiritually born.

Nah. Being born of water and Spirit is most certainly a reference to actual water baptism since people aren’t literally born again a second time from their mother. You made the same mistake Nicodemus did, apparently, even though Jesus made every effort to correct him. If you won’t hear Him I doubt you’ll hear me.

 

[JeffA]

Nah. Being born of water and Spirit is most certainly a reference to actual water baptism since people aren’t literally born again a second time from their mother. You made the same mistake Nicodemus did, apparently, even though Jesus made every effort to correct him. If you won’t hear Him I doubt you’ll hear me.

Nah.

@FreeGrace2 is correct:
To be "born of water" is a reference to being physically born.
To be "born of the Spirit" is a reference to being spiritually born.

Furthermore, it is intellectually dishonest to insert the word "water" every time "Baptism" is mentioned in scripture.

I would put forth that the VAST majority of references to "Baptism" is concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (not water).
Even John the Baptist recognized that water submersion was meaningless in the presence of Holy Spirit Baptism.

 

[Runningman]

Nah.

@FreeGrace2 is correct:
To be "born of water" is a reference to being physically born.
To be "born of the Spirit" is a reference to being spiritually born.

Furthermore, it is intellectually dishonest to insert the word "water" every time "Baptism" is mentioned in scripture.

I would put forth that the VAST majority of references to "Baptism" is concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (not water).
Even John the Baptist recognized that water submersion was meaningless in the presence of Holy Spirit Baptism.

Nicodemus was corrected for thinking that being born again meant physical birth. Being born of water is water baptism not physical birth. Check it again please.

John 3:4-5
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[JeffA]

Nicodemus was corrected for thinking that being born again meant physical birth. Being born of water is water baptism not physical birth. Check it again please.

John 3:4-5
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus did NOT say "born of water AGAIN"

 

[Runningman]

Jesus did NOT say "born of water AGAIN"

John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

He’s referencing being born of water and Spirit. It certainly is not physical birth again from a mother. It’s a new birth that involves literal water and God’s Spirit.

 

[JeffA]

Nicodemus was corrected for thinking that being born again meant physical birth. Being born of water is water baptism not physical birth. Check it again please.

John 3:4-5
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Even Nicodemus recognized that Jesus was speaking of being born of the womb. Jesus only clarified that man must ALSO be born of the Spirit. (This is what is referred to as "Born Again"). Once in the womb, once in the Spirit.
Otherwise there would be 3 births (Womb, Water, Spirit).

Also, I can't think of another verse that equates "Birth" and "Water Baptism". So, no supporting scripture for this.

 

[JeffA]

John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

He’s referencing being born of water and Spirit. It certainly is not physical birth again from a mother. It’s a new birth that involves literal water and God’s Spirit.

Born again and again? Born again with water? AND Born again with Spirit?
Nay. Born first with womb water. Born Again = Spirit (only)
Born ONCE of water (physical birth) AND born ONCE of Spirit.

John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Only referring to Spiritual Birth)

 

[peldom10]

Intentional misquoting Scripture is a SIN. The Apostle Peter never said water baptism saves us.

1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21There is also SYMBOLIC of which now saves us - baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

i never said to anyone at any time or to any of the 'religious' here on CC, do not get water baptized.

i always agree with scripture, which is why = i have been water baptized, but it did not save me or anyone!!!

What saves us is exactly what the Scripture says = "the answer of a good conscience toward God" = FAITH & OBEDIENCE

lol of the month = misquoting Galatian 3:26

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Baptism that now saves us is not wet water but the WORD mixed with FAITH by the HOLY SPIRIT.

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Notice the comparison of water to the WORD = water baptism is purely SYMBOLIC of the WORD which is TRUTH.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word(of God).

CONCLUSION: Religion is the outward flesh that opposes the inward working of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Keep on trying as you spit denominational dogma, but, you will never get there.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I included all of the relevant information in the OP. Again, go back and read the OP. How many times do I have to tell you this.

You don't. But, how many times must you read 1 Cor 15:23 before it sinks in.

Your OP does not trump the Word of God. There is ONE resurrection of the saved, and ALL the saved will be resurrected "when He comes". That is Scripture.

The "requirement" you have come up with is because of a very flawed and misunderstanding of 1 Cor 15:29.

Not even Bible scholars understand what Paul was saying.

But 1 Cor 15:23 isn't difficult to understand.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nah. Being born of water and Spirit is most certainly a reference to actual water baptism since people aren’t literally born again a second time from their mother.

Red herring. Of course no one is born again twice from their mother. And I never even suggested such silliness.

You made the same mistake Nicodemus did, apparently, even though Jesus made every effort to correct him. If you won’t hear Him I doubt you’ll hear me.

I hear the Word of God clearly. I also hear what you post, and disagree heartily.

 

[DavidTree]

Keep on trying as you spit denominational dogma, but, you will never get there.

The difference between me and you is what you falsely accuse me of - "denominational dogma."

By comparing your Post #58 to my Post #71, it can be clearly seen that i use the whole context of Scripture passage whereas you snip-n-clip isolated verses in a failed attempt for your "dogma".

i have been water baptized, just as our LORD 'permitted' for Himself and commanded us to follow.

Yet many 'water huggers' deny the LORD and reject His Holy Spirit Baptism..............go figure.

"I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Matthew 3:16

"And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Acts ch1

 

[peldom10]

Wow. Talk about being misleading. Let's look at 2 verses here.

20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water (literal water) symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In v.20 Peter notes that Noah + 7 were saved FROM water. Yes, the word in the verse is "through", and it means they were carried safely through the water that killed all living beings on the earth. iow, all that were BAPTIZED (immersed) in literal water DIED.

Same principle at the Red Sea. The entire Egyptian army got BAPTIZED and DIED. The Israelites were saved THROUGH the water. They stayed bone dry.

Now to v.21, which you didn't quote completely. Peter is clearly saying that literal water is a SYMBOL for the baptism that DOES save you.

So, what in the world was he talking about? Let's consider what a famous baptizer once said about baptism.

Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs the moment a person believes in Christ. He indwells the believer. Read Acts 10 and 11 which explains the conversion of Cornelius and his family. When they believed, they received the Holy Spirit.


To be "born of water" is a reference to being physically born.
To be "born of the Spirit" is a reference to being spiritually born.

I hear the Word of God clearly. ......................[/QUOTE]


Maintain as you wish but, you can never change scriptures which requires baptism.

You talk it but, you don't show it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nicodemus was corrected for thinking that being born again meant physical birth. Being born of water is water baptism not physical birth. Check it again please.

I never said anything about being born again meaning physical.

Again, all people are born physicall. Of water. Very simple.

Believers are born again spiritually. Do you understand specifically what is actually being born AGAIN? It's literal. Do you know?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus did NOT say "born of water AGAIN"

Of course He didn't. That is very obvious. Why you think anyone thinks what you incorrectly think is a mystery.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 3:7
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

He’s referencing being born of water and Spirit. It certainly is not physical birth again from a mother. It’s a new birth that involves literal water and God’s Spirit.

OK, there's your error. The new birth has NOTHING to do with water. I gave you what John the baptizer said about Jesus in Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

John didn't say "He will baptize you with WATER and the Holy Spirit". Read Acts 10 and 11, which explains the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I hear the Word of God clearly. ......................

Maintain as you wish but, you can never change scriptures which requires baptism.[/QUOTE]
You need to have the discernment to understand what "baptism" means.

The Bible describes 7 of them, some real (dry) and some ritual (wet). Did you know that?

You talk it but, you don't show it.

Rather, maybe you just don't understand it.

 

[JeffA]

Of course He didn't. That is very obvious. Why you think anyone thinks what you incorrectly think is a mystery.

I was AGREEING with you!