Where did the fouls of the air come from? The waters or the Earth?

[Yokefellow]

Interested to see thoughts on the link below.

Do Genesis 1 and 2 Contradict Each Other?
https://answersingenesis.org › contradictions-in-the-bible

As some have noted in this thread, I also do not agree with changing the Word of God to fit some theory. As a side note, I do not trust that website.

Having said that, I am surprised they did not go with the 'Farm Animal' theory.

In other words, the animals, birds, plants, etc. that were made in Genesis 2, were made specifically for agriculture and farming. Therefore, they were made for the Garden only.

I used to believe that, however I have since changed my mind.

 

[know1]

This question caught my eye and so I decided to sign up to post some thoughts.

Although I am a big fan of the KJV, I believe the translation may not be as clear as it could be...

Genesis 1:20
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

The consensus from almost all other translations show something like this...

Genesis 1:20
"And God said, Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

Even the Scholars and Commentators I have looked at agree that the birds were not made from the waters, but from the ground.

I am in favor of the ground as well, which the KJV seems to agree with in this verse...

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

Now, as far as the order, that is another matter entirely. No one here has it correct, but some have come close.

That seems to make partial sense.
The question I would have with that interpretation is, why list the birds only and not the beasts of the field, if both were formed from the Earth?
I'm still questioning if the fouls spoken of that were formed from the waters, according to the King James version, if those were winged reptiles, such as those in the Jurassic period. If it was something that didn't have feathers but flu just the same.
Again, I'm just speculating or more like wondering, I honestly don't know.
But I like what you came up with just the same. It's an interesting perspective.

 

[Shakey]

You’re misquoting scripture like Satan did when he tempted Jesus to challenge God by jumping off a pinnacle. Whatever animals God brought to Adam, they already existed. God formed new ones simply for the purpose of having Adam to meet them, name them and having dominion over them, which is exactly the first commandment for mankind in Gen 1. Again, this was a test run, Adam must subdue Eden before he could go out and subdue the earth.

The creator of the universe, our creator....needs a test run?????

 

[kenallen]

Have not been on in a few days was digging into something. He created them In the Beginning.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Period end of story.



2nd Peter 3;5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Before you start saying Noah's flood lets see what Gods word has to say.

​

Jeremiah 4​

22For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This is not Noah's flood: The earth had form after the water reseeded it was not void “empty wasteland” There was a fig tree on the mountains and the heavens did have light. The mountains did not move lightly. Man was not completely removed there was Noah and his family none of these things in Jeremiah describe Noah's flood

In the beginning God created the heaven and earth and He created it perfect, He created it to inhabited and it was

​

Job 38:7 Where were you when all the sons of God sang together. That is ALL that would include Job, The anointed one,(Jesus) The cherub that covereth (the mercy seat the seat of Christ) and the bright morning star: Lucifer, and all the others.



Job 40 15.Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Dinosaurs they did exist history is right. The La Brea tat pits are real even thou I have seen them with my own eyes as a kid. Some things I have read in chat rooms, heard from Pastors and the guy that built the Ark park you would not believe it. I have read on the internet that there were dinosaurs on the Ark

I want to come back to 2nd Peter I want to add one last verse to this and it will be the 3rd and last earth age verse 13.

3:3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Verse 13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[kenallen]

Gen. 1 creation order: trees, animals, man and woman at the same time.


Gen. 2 creation order: one man, garden with trees, animals, then one woman.


For simplification ONLY, I will refer to the events after the 7th day as "8th day".

4th day- trees created
5th day- fowls of the air created out of the waters before man and before land animals
6th day- land animals created before man

8th day- man created before garden and trees
8th day- man created before animals
8th day- fowls created at the same time as land animals, from the ground not the waters


6th day- male and female created at same time
8th day- man created first, then animals, then a female is created


6th day- more than just a farmer
8th day- just a farmer


6th day- told to have dominion over everything on the earth and the sea, and to multiply
8th day- in charge of maintaining the garden in Eden only. No mention of fish or the sea and no mention of multiplying.


6th day- fruit bearing trees created before man
8th day- fruit bearing trees created after man

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Period end of story.



2nd Peter 3;5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Before you start saying Noah's flood lets see what Gods word has to say.

​

Jeremiah 4​

22For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This is not Noah's flood: The earth had form after the water reseeded it was not void “empty wasteland” There was a fig tree on the mountains and the heavens did have light. The mountains did not move lightly. Man was not completely removed there was Noah and his family none of these things in Jeremiah describe Noah's flood

In the beginning God created the heaven and earth and He created it perfect, He created it to inhabited and it was

​

Job 38:7 Where were you when all the sons of God sang together. That is ALL that would include Job, The anointed one,(Jesus) The cherub that covereth (the mercy seat the seat of Christ) and the bright morning star: Lucifer, and all the others.



Job 40 15.Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Dinosaurs they did exist history is right. The La Brea tat pits are real even thou I have seen them with my own eyes as a kid. Some things I have read in chat rooms, heard from Pastors and the guy that built the Ark park you would not believe it. I have read on the internet that there were dinosaurs on the Ark

I want to come back to 2nd Peter I want to add one last verse to this and it will be the 3rd and last earth age verse 13.

3:3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Verse 13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


More to come

 

[kenallen]

Genesis 1:2​

The second earth age​

King James Bible
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Again I have given you the first 5 versions on Biblehub.com of Genesis 1:2 again for comparison
Tohu wa -bohu, Earth “Was” or “Became,” Waste and Void?



BY ROB ROBINSON on JULY 29, 2014•( 6)


The Original Hebrew Reveals What God Is Saying In the Creation Of The Universe

When we conduct a serious study in the correct usage of the Hebrew language, we find that Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1, was not written as a collection of verses which describe the original creation of God.

The sentence, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,” is an ending to God’s description of the creation of the universe. If it was intended as a part of God’s summary of the entire creation, then the second verse—”The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters”—would have been the beginning of the description of this creation. It is not. Verse 2 is a completely separate and distinct subject.

The second verse of Genesis introduces us to the condition of the earth at some point after the creation. Most read this verse and assume that it describes the state of the earth as God originally created it in verse 1. This idea would have us believe that God created a world completely in darkness without any substance and order. The words “without form” and “void” are translations of the Hebrew words tohu and bohu. Tohu and bohu are often paired together in the Old Testament and portray a “place of chaos, formlessness, emptiness, a wasteland” (Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon).



Deuteronomy 32

1Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

This is part of the song of Moses that the elect will sing so it is good to know.



Isaiah 45.

18.For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

​

God Creates man​

Remember this is God's word not mine.​

The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I want to focus on the creation of man [Ken's thoughts this is where time changes from God's day a thousand years to man's day 24 hours.]



26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

We do not see God form man out of the earth He created him in His own image and in the image of the others that were with Him both male and female. You want to know what the angelic beings look like; just look at yourselves. Let them reign over the fish of the sea, anything that fly's in the air over the cattle, heard animals and every thing else that moves on the earth. God says that they can eat the herbs, fruit, vegetables, fish, birds, wild animals, and domestic animals.

God has created man to be hunters, fisherman, headsman, and gathers of fruit ect. Then He says they are very good.

 

[kenallen]

The creator of the universe, our creator....needs a test run?????

Where do you come up with that Shakey. That is some shakey stuff.

 

[Shakey]

Where do you come up with that Shakey. That is some shakey stuff.

Carry_Your_Name said:
You’re misquoting scripture like Satan did when he tempted Jesus to challenge God by jumping off a pinnacle. Whatever animals God brought to Adam, they already existed. God formed new ones simply for the purpose of having Adam to meet them, name them and having dominion over them, which is exactly the first commandment for mankind in Gen 1. Again, this was a test run, Adam must subdue Eden before he could go out and subdue the earth.


According to Carry Your Name......Check previous posts....

 

[Shakey]

Carry_Your_Name said:
You’re misquoting scripture like Satan did when he tempted Jesus to challenge God by jumping off a pinnacle. Whatever animals God brought to Adam, they already existed. God formed new ones simply for the purpose of having Adam to meet them, name them and having dominion over them, which is exactly the first commandment for mankind in Gen 1. Again, this was a test run, Adam must subdue Eden before he could go out and subdue the earth.


According to Carry Your Name......Check previous posts....

Never want to be shakey on the word of God, I always try to understand, research the history. Not just one scripture, but before and after that scripture, what is the context of it.....as the Bereans (Acts 17) we have to study the scriptures to understand them.

 

[ewq1938]

Whatever animals God brought to Adam, they already existed.

That's not what the bible says:

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Adam was alone so God made animals. He didn't bring already created animals because there were no animals in the garden.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The creator of the universe, our creator....needs a test run?????

No, but Adam did.

 

[Yokefellow]

Why are animals created before man in Gen 1 but man created before animals in Gen 2? Got an answer for that?

The answer to this is critical to understanding the entire Bible. I have yet to see a single person answer it correctly.

 

[Yokefellow]

There isn't a harmonizing of them. There are two creation accounts. The first is about early humans that were hunter gatherers, and the second is modern man who were farmers and no surprise Adam would be made to til ground because no one else did that yet.

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

This is the closest interpretation so far. Still missing the mark though.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This is the closest interpretation so far. Still missing the mark though.

That "hunter-gatherer cavemen" is a myth. I told him before that the only example of that throughout the entire bible is the Israelites in the wilderness. How could there be any "hunter" when there was literally no death, and all men and animals were on a strict vegan diet according to 1:29?

 

[ewq1938]

This is the closest interpretation so far. Still missing the mark though.

I didn't miss any mark.

 

[ewq1938]

That "hunter-gatherer cavemen" is a myth. I told him before that the only example of that throughout the entire bible is the Israelites in the wilderness. How could there be any "hunter" when there was literally no death, and all men and animals were on a strict vegan diet according to 1:29?

You have everything wrong.

Num 14:31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
Num 14:32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
Num 14:33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

Obviously there was death there and they weren't vegans.

Exo 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.
Exo 16:13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

They ate quail meat.



"hunter-gatherer cavemen" is not a myth. You didn't get a single thing right in this post.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You have everything wrong.

Num 14:31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
Num 14:32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
Num 14:33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

Obviously there was death there and they weren't vegans.

Exo 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.
Exo 16:13 And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

They ate quail meat.



"hunter-gatherer cavemen" is not a myth. You didn't get a single thing right in this post.

"And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. " - Gen. 1:29

That was the pre-Flood world, no animal product unitl Gen 9:3.

 

[ewq1938]

"And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. " - Gen. 1:29

That was the pre-Flood world, no animal product unitl Gen 9:3.

You claimed no death in the wilderness, that was wrong.
You claimed they were vegans in the wilderness, that was wrong.

Clearly you need to read more and post less because of all the errors you make.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You claimed no death in the wilderness, that was wrong.
You claimed they were vegans in the wilderness, that was wrong.

Clearly you need to read more and post less because of all the errors you make.

You're the one who said there were "hunter gathers" before Adam, which is unbiblical as it's against Gen. 1:29. Israelites in the wilderness is another story, that was thousands of years later.