Ladies, A definition..of womanhood and being a suitable helper?

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I think the culture has changed the perception of what a woman is, and that's why it turns so confusing to understand and adapt to the biblical role and because everybody has it's own interpretation of that specific verse of the bible. Many times for their own benefit.

Bibically, a woman can't be the leader in the household, and I get that as that there can't be two leaders in the same team, because a team only has to have one leader. A team with 2 or more leaders would be desintegrated and misoriented, because each leader would have it's own opinion. So, God chose the man as the leader of the family to ultimately make the decission, but he has to listen to the wife, has to consider what she says about the "X" situation they have. We are supposing this is all out of love and respect for each other.

That doesn't mean they have to have a meeting just to decide what movie they are going to see next weekend , I think they have to be strong decisions, financial, spiritual, kids,etc. In some things the wife will know more than the husband , and other times, the husband will know more than the wife. Ultimately, they will have to make a decision, and the husband has to consider all this, not just his own opinion.

What I hate, is that some people , even woman, take this as if the woman CAN'T work or do things by their own if they want that family to work right. Every family is different, and what applies in some, it doesn't apply in others. You can be a great mom and still work and grow up as a woman, because if not, you would end up resented of having a family and even hating being a woman. You will know what works for YOU and YOUR FAMILY.
 
Allforfun started a thread for this in the ladies' forum, so I'll post the response I made there, here:

From Joshua Harri's book Boy Meets Girl:
From the first two chapters of the Bible we learn that Adam and Eve were created equal in God's sight. In our chauvinistic culture, in which women are often belittled and abused, this fact needs to be clearly states. God made women totally equal to men in person-hood, dignity, and worth. They are no less important or valuable to God.

Within the context of their equality, God assigned men and women different roles. He made Adam first, signifying his unique role as leader and initiator. He created Eve from Adam and brought her to Adam to be his helper in the tasks God has assigned him. She was made to complement, nourish, and help her husband. God's greatest gift to man was 'a helper suitable to him' (Genesis 2:18). This doesn't minimize a woman's role, but it does define it.

Men and women were created equal, yet different. And the fact that we're different is wonderful. What a boring world it would be if the opposite sex weren't so mysterious, so puzzling, and at times so infuriatingly unlike us?

God didn't make us to duplicate each other, but to complement each other. The point here is not that Adam was better than Eve, just as God the Father is not 'better' than God the Son. Father and Son are equal in essence, power, glory, and worth, but they have different roles; and the Son joyfully submits to the Father's will (1 Cor 15:28). So in marriage a husband and wife are equal, even though Scripture tells the wife to joyfully submit to her husband.

In his commentary on Genesis, Matthew Henry explained it beautifully: 'Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him.'

In Ephesians 5:21-33, Paul says that the husband's leadership isn't to be tyrannical or cruel, but kind and loving. Men are called to love their wives sacrificially and selflessly just like Jesus loves the church. Wives are instructed to follow their husbands just as the church obeys Christ. This is not mindless, joyless submission, but active participation and response to loving leadership.
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I agree with this. I could have told you that in my own words, but he just lays it down so much better.
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I wasn't going to respond initially because I answered a similar post in the family threads a couple of months ago, but hey...here I am. :)

First, I want to say that I believe God loves His sons and daughters equally.

Second, this is what my Bible says:

1. God expects men to lead their families.
2. God expects men to cherish their wives as Christ cherishes the church.
3. Women are scripturally called to two things in marriage: Respect for their husbands and submission.
4. Wives were created to be a helper to the husband. The Holy Spirit is called a Helper in scripture as well, so I do not see this term as anything demeaning or unimportant.
5. In matters of intimacy, husbands and wives are called to submit to one another.

If a man can't lead his family or cherish his wife as Christ cherishes the church, he shouldn't take vows of holy matrimony. If a man cherishes you, he will not abuse you and he will respect what you have to say even if he disagrees with you and decides that another way is best for the family. A godly man will seek the face of God regarding every decision he has to make for his family. A wise man will take advantage of the helpmate God gave him in an attempt to look at a thing from every available vantage point before making such decisions because he's accountable to God for the decisions he makes.

If a wife causes her husband to follow a path other than the one the husband truly believes God has given him, there's some serious accountability for both parties there. Something else to consider is that when a wife interferes with a husband's desire to follow God and make wise choices for his family, the wife is stealing a blessing from her husband and most likely from herself. There is blessing in obedience and submission. Wives have an opportunity to teach this vital principal of the Kingdom to the men in their lives by example. A woman who can do this is far stronger than a rebellious one.

If a christian woman doesn't trust the godly man she's marrying enough to know that he wants every decision he makes for his family to be the will of God, if she doesn't believe that he cherishes her, if she doesn't respect him enough to let him be the man God has called him to be, she shouldn't marry him.

There's no gun to anyone's head to marry most of the time if they don't want to obey the guidelines God has set out. If a man/woman doesn't feel that he/she can hold up his/her end of the marriage, or simply doesn't want to, there's no harm in remaining single.

I do realize that many women have difficulty with this issue because of past experiences where the men in their lives were either not godly men or simply didn't know how to lead their families. But when a husband and wife gets it right, it's a beautiful thing.

A lot of people see the word "submission" and immediately think "weakness". There was nothing weak about Christ's submission to the Father's will unto death. There's nothing weak about a godly man who wants to lead his family. There's nothing weak about a woman who loves her God and her husband enough to discipline the power, passion and strength within her (which is what Liamson and I discussed last night) and do it God's way.

Popular? Nope. Tough? Sure is.. But I've never been a coward or a weakling, so I'm up for it if that's God's plan for my life.
 
I think playing your role is being equal. You do what God has set forth for you to do and that means you are doing your share and therefor equal to your spouse as they are doing their share.
 
Man there sure are a lot of threads about this exact thing.
 
Rissa77 said:
Allforfun started a thread for this in the ladies' forum, so I'll post the response I made there, here:
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That seems to ignore what God said to Eve after she sinned:

Then he said to the woman, "I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
 
Zero, if you're gonna remind us of the pain of childbirth, you're gonna have to post some donuts in here too to make it up to us. :)
 
Jullianna said:
Zero, if you're gonna remind us of the pain of childbirth, you're gonna have to post some donuts in here too to make it up to us. :)
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Alright, but how about something better than donuts ;)

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phil36 said:
Ok, so I have given a brief outline why I believe, the equality of the sexes is perfectly in harmony with male headship in another post (http://christianchat.com/christian-singles-forum/27024-men-give-us-your-definition-please.html. )

So ladies.. why do you think you should be submissive to your spouse.. and biblical quotes are welcome.

Of course, you may believe in equality but not headship..why would that be?
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A submissive woman is one who listens to and respects her husband. She allows him to be the leader, realizing that if both people try to be the leader, than there will be chaos. (Have seen this at a job I worked at, where two sisters owned a daycare, and both being in charged did not work.) She wisely gives her husband counsel, but ultimately realizes in the end he will make the final decisions, and will bear the full weight of responsibility on the choices.It's a partnership of 51% 49%. Not meaning in give or take, but in roles.
 
I think that submission is important in any group and more important in a family, because that helps to a person to do the leadership in a better way, and i agree with Kayem in that God chose the man as a leader.
I dont think that the woman is weak or less because the submission, i think that God sees both with the same love and i think too that is very important that a woman participate and give her opinion to the man to really be a suitable help. But if a woman chose a different path as Julliana said, there is the danger that the wife may change herself in a "stumbling stone" instead of being a help, so she needs to submit to the husband and both can be in the same direction because the husband should submit to God.
Besides that the body of the wife belongs to the husband and the body of the husband belongs to the wife so both need to take care of each other and love in all and both submit at the same time to God.
So im ok with submit to my husband (when i have one :D) and i think that it will be very easy if he do his part and love me an take care of me as his own body.
Ephesians 5:21-30 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
 
there are times when women should take the lead, eg: decorating the house, choosing clothes for her husband or whatever shes good at...but in case of emergencies, guys are able to think straight so the woman should submit to him
 
TDWP22 said:
there are times when women should take the lead, eg: decorating the house, choosing clothes for her husband or whatever shes good at...but in case of emergencies, guys are able to think straight so the woman should submit to him
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You're such a teenager sometimes. Your generalizations are amusing.

In a crisis, my husband is the last person you want trying to help you. He freezes. Not because he isn't really a man but because he has ZERO experience in crisis situations. He's a really smart, rational guy, but when something catches him off guard, he just looks at you like a little kid, waiting for instruction.

We were in a car accident about a year ago. If I weren't in the middle of that situation, I would've been laughing at him. But...I'm his helper. So I step up and do what he cannot when it needs to be done. And I don't emasculate him while doing it (<--- the hardest part). Unlike my husband, I do really well in crisis situations.

Ability to think straight in an emergency is not gender-related, despite what books from the 1950s might tell you.
 
rainacorn said:
You're such a teenager sometimes. Your generalizations are amusing.

In a crisis, my husband is the last person you want trying to help you. He freezes. Not because he isn't really a man but because he has ZERO experience in crisis situations. He's a really smart, rational guy, but when something catches him off guard, he just looks at you like a little kid, waiting for instruction.

We were in a car accident about a year ago. If I weren't in the middle of that situation, I would've been laughing at him. But...I'm his helper. So I step up and do what he cannot when it needs to be done. And I don't emasculate him while doing it (<--- the hardest part). Unlike my husband, I do really well in crisis situations.

Ability to think straight in an emergency is not gender-related, despite what books from the 1950s might tell you.
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I agree, I've know a number of guys I wouldn't trust to tie my shoes in an emergency. some because they are scared out of their mind and others because they would only care about getting themselve out of the problem and let everyone else burn. I think I mentioned that in another thread somewhere along the way. something about the beta males actually being tougher since they are trying to hold the burning building up to let everyone get out while the alpha is gibbering in terror.

seriously though. I know a number of women I would trust to get me out of a bad situation before I'd trust a guy to do the same. Some people are just better at certain things than others. my mom for instance had to juggle school, a job and business when my father left when I was 16. I wouldn't trust my father to get himself out of a pretzel if he got stuck in one and all he'd have to do was eat it. He's not the sort that likes confrontation or emergency.
 
I think this is exactly what being a helper is all about, stepping in to fill in the gaps. :) None of us are perfect. Men and women both have their strengths and weaknesses. Surely there's a reason for that and surely its something God takes into consideration when He selects a spouse for us.

Seems like when we first marry and are quite a bit younger, some of us are greatly influenced by society's views on marriage and the roles of men/women therein. I sure was. The first couple of years were pretty rocky while we jockeyed for position in the battle of the wills, much as we do with God sometimes... But, as we grow in our marriages and in the Lord, God is able to reveal His 1 Corinthians 13 version of love that doesn't demand its own way and shows us how important this verse becomes in marriage:

"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."

There came a time when God showed me that if I'd wanted to be independent, I should have remained independent. When I chose to take vows of holy matrimony, I chose to surrender that and become one with my husband and my God. Since marriage is a God thing, it works best done His way. We can "make it work" our own way and that's great if second best is all we want, but I wanted the blessings that come from doing it God's way; not only for myself, but for my late husband and my child. Once I figured that out, my marriage was stronger and more blessed than ever. And I'm very thankful that God had blessed me with an older, wiser man who was very lovingly patient with me. :)

I realize that some husbands/wives have abusive spouses, weren't christians when they married and/or have been married to someone who did not wisely apply scripture to their relationships. I would think this is why so many object to some of the scriptures and would rather take a more culturally acceptable stance.

How do the other ladies who have had successful long term marriages (15-20+ years or more) feel? Did you go through the same process?
 
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