Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
There are no verses that show that salvation or justification requires water baptism.


Showing that water baptism WAS NOT NECESSARY for salvation.

In fact, this is fully supported by what Peter quoted Cornelius as telling him:

Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

Once again we see clearly that is the message that is to be believed that "will save".

Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism in v.16?


yes, that was the command for how to baptize. Doesn't support your claim about being necessary for salvation.


Since Acts 11:14 proves that salvation is by believing the gospel message, water baptism isn't necessary for salvation at all.

Jesus statement in Mark 15:16 backs up the requirement to be baptized.

So you think you can "trump" Scripture with Scripture? Really. Doesn't work that way. ALL Scripture is "God breathed and is profitable". If there were ANY verse that says the opposite of any other verse, the whole problem is with the reader, not Scripture.

I proved from the account of Cornelius that it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at saving faith, that saves. Not water.

So your use of Mark 15:16 cannot refute any other verse, which you are trying to do.

In fact, Mark 15:9-20 doesn't even occur in the earliest manuscripts. The verses were added LATER. They didn't come from Mark.

If the unknown writer used "baptized" to refer to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the verse is correct. But if this unknown writer had water on the brain, the verse is WRONG.

You can take your choice.

Salvation is not possible without the remission of one's sin.

Here is the Greek word that is translated as "remission"

aphesis: dismissal, release, fig. pardon
Original Word: ἄφεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aphesis
Phonetic Spelling: (af'-es-is)
Definition: dismissal, release, pardon
Usage: a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 859 áphesis (from 863 /aphíēmi, "send away, forgive" ) – properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt. See 863 (aphiēmi).

So, the Greek word can be translated as either "remission" or "forgiveness". They mean the same thing.

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

The words "through His Name" references back to "believes in Him". iow, by believing in His name, one is forgiven.

There is no mention of baptism here. Water baptism is mentioned ONLY AFTER Peter is assured that Cornelius and family/friends had believed and WERE SAVED. Proven by the power of the Spirit in speaking in tongues.

The Roman's verse references that the gospel brings salvation.

That would be Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

So please show me where baptism is mentioned in this verse or anywhere in ch 3 or 4.

The gospel message includes the command for everyone to be baptized for the remission of sin as found elsewhere in scripture. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

How about just saying from Gen 1:1 to Rev 22:21? None of the verses you quote teach that water baptism saves and is the "gospel".

In Mark 1:8 John the baptizer explained the difference between his baptism (all wet) with the baptism of the Spirit by Jesus. Dry.

And Peter recalled that difference when at Cornelius'. Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

And Peter doesn't even mention water baptism.

Acts 11: Peter's gospel message included the command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 10:47-48)

No argument. So what? Yes, Peter told them to be baptized. But ONLY AFTER they believed the message (11:14) and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (11:16).

You have proved nothing. Other than demonstrate that you are unable to discern between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sad.

 

[DavidTree]

God has always required obedience. God's purposes hinge on man's compliance per God's design.

You state neither circumcision nor baptism play a part in salvation. The NT command to be water baptized parallels the OT circumcision requirement. The OT circumcision was essential for individuals who wished to remain in covenant with God. (Gen. 17:9-14)

Also, consider that God set out to kill Moses because of his sinful disobedience. What caused this possible death sentence? Moses had neglected to circumcise his son. (Exodus 4:24-26)

New Testament water baptism in NO WAY parallels OT circumcision.

This has been made clear by the Gospel, Ephesians, Galatians, Romans, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, Acts, 1 John and Revelation.

The parallel of OT circumcision is found in Hebrews chapter 1-3 with emphasis in ch3

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Now this discussion is getting somewhere. i.e.:
First test Scripture:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)

Poor translation? If not, then:

Bad hermeneutics? If not, then:

Out of context? If not, then:

Inadequately using the laws of logic?

many people seem incapable of turning a critical eye upon themselves.

Ok then, how about a "critical eye" on:

Second test Scripture Compared (1Co 2:13) to the First:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)

vs

"For By GRACE Through faith are ye saved, not of yourselves,
It Is The Gift Of God; not of works, lest any man should boast."
(Eph 2:8-9)

So, which is it?:

"everyone in this thread thinks they are 100% accurate
and everyone else needs to get in line behind them. "

Now before anyone "gets in the wrong line,"
some "critical eye" questions on these:

1) They Are BOTH "God's PURE Words" OR: "a poor translation"
Should we "FIX" one OR BOTH of them? God Really did not "say
what He Meant, Nor Meant What He Said," Correct?

2) God's Has TWO Different Contexts (Dispensational), saying
TWO Different "PURE Words" To TWO Different groups of people?

Please advise...

 

[Wansvic]

FreeGrace2 said:
There are no verses that show that salvation or justification requires water baptism.


Showing that water baptism WAS NOT NECESSARY for salvation.

In fact, this is fully supported by what Peter quoted Cornelius as telling him:

Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

Once again we see clearly that is the message that is to be believed that "will save".

Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism in v.16?


yes, that was the command for how to baptize. Doesn't support your claim about being necessary for salvation.


Since Acts 11:14 proves that salvation is by believing the gospel message, water baptism isn't necessary for salvation at all.

So you think you can "trump" Scripture with Scripture? Really. Doesn't work that way. ALL Scripture is "God breathed and is profitable". If there were ANY verse that says the opposite of any other verse, the whole problem is with the reader, not Scripture.

I proved from the account of Cornelius that it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at saving faith, that saves. Not water.

So your use of Mark 15:16 cannot refute any other verse, which you are trying to do.

In fact, Mark 15:9-20 doesn't even occur in the earliest manuscripts. The verses were added LATER. They didn't come from Mark.

If the unknown writer used "baptized" to refer to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the verse is correct. But if this unknown writer had water on the brain, the verse is WRONG.

You can take your choice.


Here is the Greek word that is translated as "remission"

aphesis: dismissal, release, fig. pardon
Original Word: ἄφεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aphesis
Phonetic Spelling: (af'-es-is)
Definition: dismissal, release, pardon
Usage: a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 859 áphesis (from 863 /aphíēmi, "send away, forgive" ) – properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt. See 863 (aphiēmi).

So, the Greek word can be translated as either "remission" or "forgiveness". They mean the same thing.

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

The words "through His Name" references back to "believes in Him". iow, by believing in His name, one is forgiven.

There is no mention of baptism here. Water baptism is mentioned ONLY AFTER Peter is assured that Cornelius and family/friends had believed and WERE SAVED. Proven by the power of the Spirit in speaking in tongues.


That would be Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

So please show me where baptism is mentioned in this verse or anywhere in ch 3 or 4.


How about just saying from Gen 1:1 to Rev 22:21? None of the verses you quote teach that water baptism saves and is the "gospel".

In Mark 1:8 John the baptizer explained the difference between his baptism (all wet) with the baptism of the Spirit by Jesus. Dry.

And Peter recalled that difference when at Cornelius'. Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

And Peter doesn't even mention water baptism.


No argument. So what? Yes, Peter told them to be baptized. But ONLY AFTER they believed the message (11:14) and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (11:16).

You have proved nothing. Other than demonstrate that you are unable to discern between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sad.

Scripture confirms scripture. It never contradicts. Many aspects of the salvation message are not specifically stated in in every verse. Since the gospel message includes the requirement to repent and be water baptized as stated elsewhere in scripture it is not necessary for Paul to make that point.

Ask yourself what Peter meant concerning his refusal to stand in God's way in the Cornelius account. If Peter had neglected to command the group to be water baptized he would have interfered with the Gentiles ability to have their sins remitted per God's plan. We know this because the gospel message presented to all groups of humanity included that requirement.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripture confirms scripture.

Yes, it sure does.

It never contradicts.

Nope. It never does.

Many aspects of the salvation message are not specifically stated in in every verse. Since the gospel message includes the requirement to repent and be water baptized as stated elsewhere in scripture it is not necessary for Paul to make that point.

Since to "repent" really means to "change the mind" (look it up and learn), everyone has to change their mind in order to believe in the work of Christ for salvation. Because everyone is unsaved until they believe the gospel. That requires a change of mind.

As to water baptism, you are just all wet. No pun intended. Paul himself, the world's best evangelist, made clear that he was called to preach the gospel, NOT BAPTIZE.

Now, just think about that for a sec. IF the gospel message included water baptism, why would Paul say that? He wouldn't have.

And he wouldn't have mentioned how FEW people he baptized.

Ask yourself what Peter meant concerning his refusal to stand in God's way in the Cornelius account.

You need to explain what you mean here. Quote the verses you are thinking about.

If Peter had neglected to command the group to be water baptized he would have interfered with the Gentiles ability to have their sins remitted per God's plan.

That's not true. You just refuse to accept the biblical purpose of water baptism. It is a public demonstration of one's faith. In fact, it is a symbol of our faith in Christ.

We know this because the gospel message presented to all groups of humanity included that requirement.

Nope. There isn't.

You've been given plenty of evidence to the contrary. Both sides cannot be correct. Paul's claim in 1 Cor 1 totally sinks your boat.

 

[Magenta]

Resurrection was anticipated by ancient believers.

I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;

~Job 19:25-26

Job 19:25-27a

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Scripture confirms scripture. It never contradicts. Many aspects of the salvation message are not specifically stated in in every verse. Since the gospel message includes the requirement to repent and be water baptized as stated elsewhere in scripture it is not necessary for Paul to make that point.

Ask yourself what Peter meant concerning his refusal to stand in God's way in the Cornelius account. If Peter had neglected to command the group to be water baptized he would have interfered with the Gentiles ability to have their sins remitted per God's plan. We know this because the gospel message presented to all groups of humanity included that requirement.

it’s the core of the new age grace doctrine that “there’s nothing required of you or it isn’t grace “ even if it’s clearly stated as a direct command of Jesus the lord “ that’s not for you that’s for the Jews it’s the law of Moses it’s not grace “


To use the word grace the way the modern preachers do making it erase everything Jesus taught us to do and believe about salvation is a deception designed by the devil in the world.

to these folks anything God said you need to do , isn’t for you because “ your saved by grace” it’s a nice way and subtle way of saying don’t believe Jesus word believe my intellectual interpretation instead

So This for instance isn’t true because it’s not “ grace “ if you need to do anything

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see “ grace” is telling them we don’t actually have to repent because we said I believe in Jesus

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is grave to them but this is null and void even though Jesus the savior and lord who came to save us , said it

“except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”


Then new grace doctrines are destroying Christianities most simple and basic truths calling it grace and saying “ grace means we don’t have to do anything he said to do now “

this again can’t possibly be true because well we’re already saved

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭

this again can’t be true because it’s about our deeds and being judged

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The new grace teachings are an instant out of learning anything real it’s a continuous circle brother even baptism “ is a work not needed because of grace “

terrible times for true simple doctrine in the church

 

[Magenta]

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see “ grace” is telling them we don’t actually have to repent because we said I believe in Jesus

Some understand that repentance is believing and having faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ. That translates to Godly sorrow for one's rebellion against God - a change of heart and mind which transforms one's entire life, putting God at the center.

 

[DavidTree]

Job 19:25-27a

And what Prophet of the LORD spoke those beautiful words???

Chance? or Designed by the Eternal DESIGNER

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Some understand that repentance is believing and having faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ. That translates to Godly sorrow for one's rebellion against God - a change of heart and mind which transforms one's entire life, putting God at the center.

yeah some make repentance mean a lot of things , to change our minds we have to hear the word of Jesus the gospel. Knowing and believing Jesus suffered greatly and died for what we’ve all done should prick the heart I agree

but to change the mind we need to follow the word he preached that leads us to repentance and right living this part of grace

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,

we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-12, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

part of salvstion through grace and faith requires us to let Jesus teachings into into our mind and heart and let his word become the word of our God. The blood is for atonement not teaching us anything the word teaches us while the blood stones for our sins

the word is able to do this

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

teaching us to recognize and resist the evil in the world and overcome lust , greed , pride , unforgiveness ect and live upright lives like Jesus taught in the gospel

this is part of the gospel just as much as Jesus dying for our sins and rising the third day. He’s still our God and still spoke his word of life even though he died for our sins his words haven’t changed they are the eternal words of God and are there to teach bekievers repentance and right living in this life

his blood is essential but So is his word that teaches us about the father in heaven , what he thinks and feels about us , who we are , what we’re capable of , what God expects of us , what he’s done for us to prepare us for it , what he has I. Store for us after death ect

all of it is relevant if we’re believers we want to just rest in his sacrifice trusting his bloodshed to cover our sins but at the same time we need to be embracing his words and promises , instructions and warnings his wisdom and rebuke his approval and comforting words

the word reveals God To us as we hear and learn and come to belief repentance comes from herring the word calling us to repentance and belief in the gospel but yes I’d say we should feel responsible in some ways for his suffering and be sorrowful and repent I see that point also

what I’m saying is the blood doesn’t cancel out the word , nor the word the blood they word together to save our souls leading us to repentance and everlasting life

repentance involves a changes action but comes from a changed mind and heart first try atbhappens through hearing the teachings and words of Jesus and the apostles as we accept it in it changes our thinking and understanding while we always remember the blood and his sacrifice we also have to start living the life more and more to honor it

 

[DavidTree]

Scripture confirms scripture. It never contradicts. Many aspects of the salvation message are not specifically stated in in every verse. Since the gospel message includes the requirement to repent and be water baptized as stated elsewhere in scripture it is not necessary for Paul to make that point.

Ask yourself what Peter meant concerning his refusal to stand in God's way in the Cornelius account. If Peter had neglected to command the group to be water baptized he would have interfered with the Gentiles ability to have their sins remitted per God's plan. We know this because the gospel message presented to all groups of humanity included that requirement.

Scripture CONFIRMS Cornelius was saved by Faith BEFORE he was water baptized.

The false doctrine of water baptism necessary for Salvation DRIPS with false religion.

BEFORE we ever dipped a toe
the Spirit was calling us- we all know
we took the Call from Him Above
the Spirit cooing in our hearts
HE comes in the form of a DOVE

water baptism is the step we take
AFTER the Word in our hearts does bake
for the Word is Living Bread which i partake
water baptism is just a dip in the lake

HIS words so bold in Truth and Love
They could only come from the DOVE
Born of the Spirit as the Wind blows
The Wings of the DOVE full well Knows

 

[Magenta]

yeah some make repentance mean a lot of things , to change our minds we have to hear the word of Jesus the gospel. Knowing and believing Jesus suffered greatly and died for what we’ve all done should prick the heart I agree

but to change the mind we need to follow the word he preached that leads us to repentance and right living this part of grace

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,

we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-12, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

part of salvstion through grace and faith requires us to let Jesus teachings into into our mind and heart and let his word become the word of our God. The blood is for atonement not teaching us anything the word teaches us while the blood stones for our sins

the word is able to do this

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

teaching us to recognize and resist the evil in the world and overcome lust , greed , pride , unforgiveness ect and live upright lives like Jesus taught in the gospel

this is part of the gospel just as much as Jesus dying for our sins and rising the third day. He’s still our God and still spoke his word of life even though he died for our sins his words haven’t changed they are the eternal words of God and are there to teach bekievers repentance and right living in this life

his blood is essential but So is his word that teaches us about the father in heaven , what he thinks and feels about us , who we are , what we’re capable of , what God expects of us , what he’s done for us to prepare us for it , what he has I. Store for us after death ect

all of it is relevant if we’re believers we want to just rest in his sacrifice trusting his bloodshed to cover our sins but at the same time we need to be embracing his words and promises , instructions and warnings his wisdom and rebuke his approval and comforting words

the word reveals God To us as we hear and learn and come to belief repentance comes from herring the word calling us to repentance and belief in the gospel but yes I’d say we should feel responsible in some ways for his suffering and be sorrowful and repent I see that point also

what I’m saying is the blood doesn’t cancel out the word , nor the word the blood they word together to save our souls leading us to repentance and everlasting life

repentance involves a changes action but comes from a changed mind and heart first try atbhappens through hearing the teachings and words of Jesus and the apostles as we accept it in it changes our thinking and understanding while we always remember the blood and his sacrifice we also have to start living the life more and more to honor it

Ephesians 1:3 + Philippians 2:13

 

[FreeGrace2]

it’s the core of the new age grace doctrine that “there’s nothing required of you or it isn’t grace “ even if it’s clearly stated as a direct command of Jesus the lord “ that’s not for you that’s for the Jews it’s the law of Moses it’s not grace “

Well, not exactly correct. It all depends on what the requirement is FOR.

If for salvation, then there is NOTHING a person can do, as in work or effort. God's plan is "to save those who believe". 1 Cor 1:21.

If for eternal reward, then there is a requirement.

This is an important distinction. Many Arminians confuse which is which, or don't even understand either.

to these folks anything God said you need to do , isn’t for you because “ your saved by grace” it’s a nice way and subtle way of saying don’t believe Jesus word believe my intellectual interpretation instead

The pertinent verse is Eph 2;8,9, which says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, and not of ourselves. Faith is a requirement for salvation, but it isn't an effort or work in any sense.

So This for instance isn’t true because it’s not “ grace “ if you need to do anything

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see “ grace” is telling them we don’t actually have to repent because we said I believe in Jesus

Here's the deal. Repenting in the Greek is changing the mind. It is impossible to place faith in Jesus Christ without repenting.

So those with a strong prior conviction, like the Jews, who were taught wrongly that keeping the law would save them, needed to be told to change their minds. But even with those without any prior convictions, will have to change their minds in order to trust in Christ. There's no other way.

Then new grace doctrines are destroying Christianities most simple and basic truths calling it grace and saying “ grace means we don’t have to do anything he said to do now “

Please clarify this. What does "we don't have to do anything he said to do now" mean?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭
Why in the world are you quoting this? Do you really think any human being is capable of earning eternal life, which is what this passage actually says?

Paul was emphasizing that NO human being is capable of earning eternal life. And he drove that point home in 3:9 and 23. We are all sinful and cannot earn eternal life.
this again can’t be true because it’s about our deeds and being judged

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This isn't about salvation, but about being rewarded for obedience and faithfulness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

but to change the mind we need to follow the word he preached that leads us to repentance and right living this part of grace

You just showed your hand, when you said "right living". Salvation is NEVER about "right living". That's what the Pharisees taught.

 

[DavidTree]

Well, not exactly correct. It all depends on what the requirement is FOR.

If for salvation, then there is NOTHING a person can do, as in work or effort. God's plan is "to save those who believe". 1 Cor 1:21.

If for eternal reward, then there is a requirement.

This is an important distinction. Many Arminians confuse which is which, or don't even understand either.


The pertinent verse is Eph 2;8,9, which says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, and not of ourselves. Faith is a requirement for salvation, but it isn't an effort or work in any sense.


Here's the deal. Repenting in the Greek is changing the mind. It is impossible to place faith in Jesus Christ without repenting.

So those with a strong prior conviction, like the Jews, who were taught wrongly that keeping the law would save them, needed to be told to change their minds. But even with those without any prior convictions, will have to change their minds in order to trust in Christ. There's no other way.


Please clarify this. What does "we don't have to do anything he said to do now" mean?

You said: "Here's the deal. Repenting in the Greek is changing the mind. It is impossible to place faith in Jesus Christ without repenting."

That's the DEAL my Salvation was purchased on = His Suffering and Death on the Cross meant that my mind/heart had to change direction.

People hear the word REPENT and they get all flustered and they feel insulted, when in fact it is a BLESSING to GO in the Right Direction.
In truthful essence, we are in a constant motion of repenting as we grow in the LORD which keeps us in the Mind of Christ, Going Forward in the Right Direction, including when we read the Word = Rightly Dividing the word of Truth.

 

[Runningman]

Ok then, how about a "critical eye" on:

Second test Scripture Compared (1Co 2:13) to the First:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)

vs

"For By GRACE Through faith are ye saved, not of yourselves,
It Is The Gift Of God; not of works, lest any man should boast."
(Eph 2:8-9)

So, which is it?:

"everyone in this thread thinks they are 100% accurate
and everyone else needs to get in line behind them. "

Now before anyone "gets in the wrong line,"
some "critical eye" questions on these:

1) They Are BOTH "God's PURE Words" OR: "a poor translation"
Should we "FIX" one OR BOTH of them? God Really did not "say
what He Meant, Nor Meant What He Said," Correct?

2) God's Has TWO Different Contexts (Dispensational), saying
TWO Different "PURE Words" To TWO Different groups of people?

Please advise...

Several things, but I don't want to get too wordy.

I'll just begin at Hebrews 11, also known as the Hall of Faith, where all of these people in Hebrews 11 were commended for their faith which involved actually doing something too.

Hebrews 11
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death
7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed;
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come
23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents,
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

And so many more. Faith is more than just sitting there and having faith, we do things with our faith too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said: "Here's the deal. Repenting in the Greek is changing the mind. It is impossible to place faith in Jesus Christ without repenting."

That's the DEAL my Salvation was purchased on = His Suffering and Death on the Cross meant that my mind/heart had to change direction.

To believe in Christ for going to heaven is definitely a change of mind because NO ONE starts out in life thinking that Jesus is the way to heaven. So believing in Christ IS a change of mind.

People hear the word REPENT and they get all flustered and they feel insulted, when in fact it is a BLESSING to GO in the Right Direction.

Actually, most people hear the word "repent" and think they need to change their lifestyle. And no one will get saved by changing their lifestyle.

 

[DavidTree]

To believe in Christ for going to heaven is definitely a change of mind because NO ONE starts out in life thinking that Jesus is the way to heaven. So believing in Christ IS a change of mind.


Actually, most people hear the word "repent" and think they need to change their lifestyle. And no one will get saved by changing their lifestyle.

You missed it, so here it is again 3x

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him.”

 

[FreeGrace2]

You missed it, so here it is again 3x

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him.”

Still missing your point about "repent". ?

 

[DavidTree]

Still missing your point about "repent". ?

Peace my Brother
Chapter 10 of Acts is Beautiful and a Perfect correction from the LORD concerning the discussion of this Thread on water baptism.
Which you full well know.

Did you know that Noah was saved 120 Years BEFORE he was water baptized?