Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection
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The NT was in effect(began) the moment the LORD began His Ministry, when the Holy Spirit Rested and Remained on Him.
The NT was fulfilled (for forgiveness of sins) when HE Finished the Work of God and shed His Blood on the Cross.
The NT was completed when HE ascended to the Right Hand of the Father so that the Promise of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit be poured out upon His People = Blood Washed Saints Born of the Spirit.
The thief was saved by Faith(Gospel) in the Sacrifice of Messiah(Gospel).
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”
And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’?
But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
The NT was fulfilled (for forgiveness of sins) when HE Finished the Work of God and shed His Blood on the Cross.
The NT was completed when HE ascended to the Right Hand of the Father so that the Promise of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit be poured out upon His People = Blood Washed Saints Born of the Spirit.
The thief was saved by Faith(Gospel) in the Sacrifice of Messiah(Gospel).
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”
And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’?
But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
So, what do you make of Hebrews 9?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
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Just at it says: "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." = Jesus death on the Cross.
"Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. " Hebrews 9:27-28
What happened the Moment Christ Died???
And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom;
Matt 27:50-51
"Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. " Hebrews 9:27-28
What happened the Moment Christ Died???
And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom;
Matt 27:50-51
Because a testament is of force after men are dead; but apparently not immediately after- because it says it was necessary that the heavenly things be anointed with his blood like the OT was inaugurated by the sprinkling of blood on the tabernacle/ earthly stuff that was a shadow of the heavenly things. That's why I say it was after Jesus ascended. The veil rent on earth because the way was now open for Jesus to go into the holy place in heaven.
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"The Veil to the Holy of Holies (The Holy Place) was torn from top to bottom."
Why did this happen immediately upon His Death?
Not so that Jesus can go to heaven, but to signify that the Blood Covenant was fulfilled in His Death.
AFTER that, the LORD Ascended so that the Promise of the FATHER could come to us.
IF, His Blood did not take immediate EFFECT, then the Veil would of been torn LATER as you suggest.
PEACE my Brother in Christ
Why did this happen immediately upon His Death?
Not so that Jesus can go to heaven, but to signify that the Blood Covenant was fulfilled in His Death.
AFTER that, the LORD Ascended so that the Promise of the FATHER could come to us.
IF, His Blood did not take immediate EFFECT, then the Veil would of been torn LATER as you suggest.
PEACE my Brother in Christ
FreeGrace2 said:
I wonder how many know what the Hebrew for "filthy rags" actually means.
I can only add one word to your answer: "used".
You get an A!
I wonder how many know what the Hebrew for "filthy rags" actually means.
I can only add one word to your answer: "used".
You get an A!
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Water baptism is necessary for the resurrection is written in plain English in Romans 6:5 and Paul teaches the same idea in 1 Corinthians 15, it’s also mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21. Just read my OP again it’s a bit more thorough as to why.
I know you don’t see that, but I see it and there are others who see it. From what I can see about your stated stances on scripture, you’re incapable of seeing it because your foundation about resurrections and water baptism isn’t accurate. In Christianity we can easily get blinded by our firmly held and sincere beliefs, but I don’t really have a preference what the Bible says or doesn’t say, I just seek the truth and have no loyalty to any doctrines.
Don’t take me saying you are incorrect as disrespectful or rude, because that’s just my opinion and I need to demonstrate I disagree with you in order to explain why my position is correct... which I have done repeatedly. None of this is personal to me.
The point that seemed to flare tensions between you and me was when you said “Jesus is the resurrection and the life and you are resurrected through faith.” However i rebuttalled with a counter argument that showed that passage didn’t actually guarantee a resurrection to the woman at the well for believing, but it promised her eternal life.
At minimum, I believe I effectively demonstrated your interpretation is not necessarily accurate but even possibly wrong.
I believe salvation of the soul is through faith and salvation of the body is through water baptism.
I know you don’t see that, but I see it and there are others who see it. From what I can see about your stated stances on scripture, you’re incapable of seeing it because your foundation about resurrections and water baptism isn’t accurate. In Christianity we can easily get blinded by our firmly held and sincere beliefs, but I don’t really have a preference what the Bible says or doesn’t say, I just seek the truth and have no loyalty to any doctrines.
Don’t take me saying you are incorrect as disrespectful or rude, because that’s just my opinion and I need to demonstrate I disagree with you in order to explain why my position is correct... which I have done repeatedly. None of this is personal to me.
The point that seemed to flare tensions between you and me was when you said “Jesus is the resurrection and the life and you are resurrected through faith.” However i rebuttalled with a counter argument that showed that passage didn’t actually guarantee a resurrection to the woman at the well for believing, but it promised her eternal life.
At minimum, I believe I effectively demonstrated your interpretation is not necessarily accurate but even possibly wrong.
I believe salvation of the soul is through faith and salvation of the body is through water baptism.
The most important thing for me is that we truly love each other just as Christ loves us.
This internet chat leaves out face to face communication and many elements and word usage that takes place in person.
i want you to know that i have asked the Lord to forgive me for being to harsh with my words and that i have left all the ugly behind us and i THANK GOD for YOU, my Brother in Christ.
This internet chat leaves out face to face communication and many elements and word usage that takes place in person.
i want you to know that i have asked the Lord to forgive me for being to harsh with my words and that i have left all the ugly behind us and i THANK GOD for YOU, my Brother in Christ.
