Spiritual War

[kenallen]

And can you please show me where Jesus set up an organisation in the Body of Christ, to put on public meetings, bringing in finance?

I don't thank I ever did I don't believe in that. I did say something about show me a church overflowing with true believers.
The problem is that Amos 8 says
11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
13In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
14They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

 

[shittim]

But then they, the ones in charge would still have the power and control, for it, the public meeting is a business. This business of producing a public meeting needs finance and more people sitting in the pews would bring in more money.

Is that what you are desiring?

That isn't the Christianity of the Bible. Constantine created a "church" based on the Roman form of government, it became a business, many supposed "churches" have done as well. The "ecclesia" is actually the body of believers, meeting in His name and empowered by Holy Spirit to do His works, being His hands and feet, to the point when people look at us, they see Jesus.
Our faith was never intended to be a spectator sport, rather it was intended to be All hands on deck.

 

[RichMan]

But then they, the ones in charge would still have the power and control, for it, the public meeting is a business. This business of producing a public meeting needs finance and more people sitting in the pews would bring in more money.

Is that what you are desiring?

Don't think it wise to judge all by the actions of some.
Not all local churches are all about numbers and money.
All would be wise to search out one of those that are about preaching the Gospel.
And there are still many out there.

 

[Runningman]

As a Christian, I accept that persecution for my faith is coming. So, should I just bite my lip, pray for peace, and wait? Or, should I shout from the rooftops and continue to fight the good fight?

We cannot control many things aside from how we respond. We can respond with "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" or we can respond with love for our enemies. Every day is a deliberate and conscious decision as to how we interact with people and spiritual forces. Persecution can come from people, but the majority of it will likely come from the devil for your genuine, sincere, love and faith for Jesus Christ of Nazareth our Lord and Savior.

 

[JAPOV]

When the crazy leftists start attacking churches, I definitely see the Devil at work!

 

[Marilyn]

Don't think it wise to judge all by the actions of some.
Not all local churches are all about numbers and money.
All would be wise to search out one of those that are about preaching the Gospel.
And there are still many out there.

That is true, and we need to separate the `persons` from the organisation. Still it is important to remember that the public meeting is run by an organisation, (some well meaning) and is just that - a public meeting!

It is NOT THE CHURCH, but a public meeting of some of the Body of Christ. It is NOT how the Lord told His disciples to build His Body - "Go make disciples...." I wonder how many people who still attend public meetings can tell you `who are their disciples they are teaching.....` You see it seems to me that people tend to think that going to the public meeting run by an organisation is their support of the person in charge doing the work of discipling.

When actually it is all the believers who are to be discipling others.

 

[JAPOV]

That is true, and we need to separate the `persons` from the organisation. Still it is important to remember that the public meeting is run by an organisation, (some well meaning) and is just that - a public meeting!

It is NOT THE CHURCH, but a public meeting of some of the Body of Christ. It is NOT how the Lord told His disciples to build His Body - "Go make disciples...." I wonder how many people who still attend public meetings can tell you `who are their disciples they are teaching.....` You see it seems to me that people tend to think that going to the public meeting run by an organisation is their support of the person in charge doing the work of discipling.

When actually it is all the believers who are to be discipling others.

"Where any two or three come together..."

 

[RichMan]

That is true, and we need to separate the `persons` from the organisation. Still it is important to remember that the public meeting is run by an organisation, (some well meaning) and is just that - a public meeting!

It is NOT THE CHURCH, but a public meeting of some of the Body of Christ. It is NOT how the Lord told His disciples to build His Body - "Go make disciples...." I wonder how many people who still attend public meetings can tell you `who are their disciples they are teaching.....` You see it seems to me that people tend to think that going to the public meeting run by an organisation is their support of the person in charge doing the work of discipling.

When actually it is all the believers who are to be discipling others.

Not all are run by the organisation, what ever that means.
Many are run by the members that attend the local church, with each member having an equal voice in all maters.
There is ample evidence in Scripture that "local churches" were the way that people were taught and disciples made.
Seems some are just looking for an excuse to justify the fact they do not attend a local church.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When the crazy leftists start attacking churches, I definitely see the Devil at work!

Amen the left is obsessed with being anti Christianity all Of Our biblical beliefs are under constant assault in the information war in the world between truth and lies

I’ve heard a few of them start to grumble about scriptures condemning homosexuality , Trans sexuality and whatever other kind they’ve invented now days

saying those kind of scriptures cause “ hate speech and anti lgbt rhetoric ect I’m assuming eventually they will come for the scripture in the world. Like they’ve done in China and the Muslim nations outlawing scripture itself or even Bible apps

Slot is changing in the world morally even in the church. 100 years ago People had much more biblically based faith and belief of what is written.

Now days many believe more in the latest revolutionary book written by whatever popular author has popped up for a time. Than in the Bible and what it has to say we argue over the simplest points made in the Bible because of all the misinformation in the church but in the world more so.

man is definately divided against itself and there are a thousand beliefs in the world about “God” from Islam , to Buddhist , to atheist and Hindu from witchcraft to Wicca to all
Of the ancient religions forgotten by now of the Greeks and Romans ofnthe Egyptians and Babylonians

but then there’s the way truth and life and it’s knowledge written in Gods book , it seems to be found everywhere but often lays dusty on a shelf. Information corrupts mknds and hearts but also the knowledge of Jesus found in scripture saves minds and hearts and fills us with the truth from God of his word

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even in Eden it was misinformation about the forbidden fruit that corrupted mans mind and heart. Even today it is the knowledge of Jesus Christ in the gospel that redeems and restores our understanding.

 

[Nehemiah6]

As a Christian, I accept that persecution for my faith is coming. So, should I just bite my lip, pray for peace, and wait? Or, should I shout from the rooftops and continue to fight the good fight?

You could do both if you wish.

 

[Snacks]

A little bit off subject but my neighbor just posted a photo of her daughter on FB and it looks like she has an upside down cross etched into her forehead. I’ll post it here if it’s not against site rules.

 

[shittim]

Was it Ash Wednesday? Sometimes that came look like an inverted cross.

 

[randyk]

As a Christian, I accept that persecution for my faith is coming. So, should I just bite my lip, pray for peace, and wait? Or, should I shout from the rooftops and continue to fight the good fight?

That's actually a really good question. There are good times and bad times. And there are better and worse times. The bad and worse times come when a nation turns against God after having known Him. Or they can happen in pagan nations for those who are believers.

The thing to know is that when you choose to live right, it will be somewhat at odds with the world around him or her. The world lives by its own autonomous choice, and will resist giving allegiance to the Lord over our own liberty to choose as we want.

Of course God also gives us a lot of free choices, but it is always connected to Him and to His love. He holds the veto to everything, and He never condones anything not done in His love. But the world resists this and persecutes in greater or lesser ways those who live right, thus casting a shadow over those who are living for themselves alone.

So expect persecution in some form all the time. We are to be witnesses to the light while we live in the darkness. It should be obvious when we choose *not* to live independent of God or outside of His love.

In former Christian countries that are turning away from God, and in pagan nations hostile to the Gospel, it is wise to keep quiet quite often, so as to live to bring the Good News to those who are interested. At times we should keep our head down, or we will deserve to get shot. We know there are "hostiles" out there, so we should keep our heads down and not be overtly proud and cocky about "God is on our side."

Humility and submissiveness is a good thing, even if it is directed to pagan or secularistic governments. We all share in common a human conscience, and there should be things we have in common. As Peter said, our lifestyle should commend itself to rulers whose interest it is to preserve social unity and peace.

 

[Snacks]

Was it Ash Wednesday? Sometimes that came look like an inverted cross.

 

[shittim]

yep, sure looks "etched"
self mutilation.

 

[JAPOV]

That's actually a really good question. There are good times and bad times. And there are better and worse times. The bad and worse times come when a nation turns against God after having known Him. Or they can happen in pagan nations for those who are believers.

The thing to know is that when you choose to live right, it will be somewhat at odds with the world around him or her. The world lives by its own autonomous choice, and will resist giving allegiance to the Lord over our own liberty to choose as we want.

Of course God also gives us a lot of free choices, but it is always connected to Him and to His love. He holds the veto to everything, and He never condones anything not done in His love. But the world resists this and persecutes in greater or lesser ways those who live right, thus casting a shadow over those who are living for themselves alone.

So expect persecution in some form all the time. We are to be witnesses to the light while we live in the darkness. It should be obvious when we choose *not* to live independent of God or outside of His love.

In former Christian countries that are turning away from God, and in pagan nations hostile to the Gospel, it is wise to keep quiet quite often, so as to live to bring the Good News to those who are interested. At times we should keep our head down, or we will deserve to get shot. We know there are "hostiles" out there, so we should keep our heads down and not be overtly proud and cocky about "God is on our side."

Humility and submissiveness is a good thing, even if it is directed to pagan or secularistic governments. We all share in common a human conscience, and there should be things we have in common. As Peter said, our lifestyle should commend itself to rulers whose interest it is to preserve social unity and peace.

This is precisely where my head is at! I simply can't believe that the majority of Americans are anti-Constitutional/anti-Christian. America is currently under attack, war against our fundamental ideals has been waged by a minority in the White House. If we don't stand up and fight back RIGHT NOW, too much damage will be done.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Oh, I don't think any Christian church would mind being over-crowded with true believers lol

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Seriously though, pray and speak out. I don't know about shouting however. A whisper is enough to enrage those who want to persecute you for speaking the truth.

 

[randyk]

This is precisely where my head is at! I simply can't believe that the majority of Americans are anti-Constitutional/anti-Christian. America is currently under attack, war against our fundamental ideals has been waged by a minority in the White House. If we don't stand up and fight back RIGHT NOW, too much damage will be done.

Yea, I'm been suffering this depressing reality for some time now. The bottom line, for me, is that not only does a minority of corrupt Americans rule, but the vast majority of the American public is gullible and lean towards all kinds of freedoms that God never intended to give us.

There is a weakness in the majority of Americans to accept abortion on demand even though the majority would not get abortions themselves. The majority are not gay, but they prefer to give themselves that right, and to accept people they like who are gay.

Deep inside they know it's wrong--they just don't want laws banning ungodly behaviors. They are weak towards the opinions of this small minority because they actually *want* to believe they're being tolerant. They're really feeding their desire to be free to indulge their own lusts.

It's a no-win situation because this gives life to pathetic media organizations who pedal this immoral manure. However, the Gospel was strong enough to win the pagan Roman Empire. It would win the hearts of the public easily if the public itself was not leaning towards liberation from God's moral law.

I'm encouraged, personally, by the fact that God has foreseen all of these things, and has set a precedent in the history of ancient Israel. We know things do get worse before they get better. But they will get better!

 

[Marilyn]

Not all are run by the organisation, what ever that means.
Many are run by the members that attend the local church, with each member having an equal voice in all maters.
There is ample evidence in Scripture that "local churches" were the way that people were taught and disciples made.
Seems some are just looking for an excuse to justify the fact they do not attend a local church.

Who owns the building? Who has to follow the (many unrighteous) laws of the State & Country? Who tells others that they are not part of the church if they don`t go to a public meeting that others organize?

`Let the word of God dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.` (Col. 3: 16)

Is that possible to `one another,` in a crowd of over a dozen or so?

 

[RichMan]

Who owns the building? Who has to follow the (many unrighteous) laws of the State & Country? Who tells others that they are not part of the church if they don`t go to a public meeting that others organize?

`Let the word of God dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.` (Col. 3: 16)

Is that possible to `one another,` in a crowd of over a dozen or so?

Well I guess Jesus should have sent the multitudes away and just taught the twelve.
I suppose that Paul shut the door once the group got to twelve.
I like small churches, but would never turn anyone away regardless how many came.
The more the better.
Why not just admit you refuse to follow the command to assemble because things are not done as you wish.