Fulling expecting this to be a short thread !
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@posthuman - Just so that you know, if you reply to me in the future, I will not be responding as you are my latest addition to my Ignore List. Your attitude towards suffering is intolerable. I am 100% confident that if you were to tell my uncle who was tortured for seven years in Vietnam that God looked upon him as a sinner because of his fear of continual torture . . . he'd slap you (at minimum).
Your thinking is like a mudpuddle . . . shallow and unclear.
Your thinking is like a mudpuddle . . . shallow and unclear.
Thank you my dear sister. Whew.
Okay, so here's what I have to offer. I have logged as many sets of passages that I could find that outlines the behaviors of the Sinful Nature. In all of the Scriptures and notes that I have collected and written, only five times does the word fear come up (relating to sin). Three of them actually have nothing to do with the concept that we're discussing, but one does. Here it is:
Romans 3:10-18 NLT - "As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one." "Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies." "Snake venom drips from their lips." "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." "They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don't know where to find peace." "They have no fear of God at all."
In fact, the problem is that these people LACK fear! And this is to be equated to possessing the Sinful Nature.
I searched for the word "afraid" and found another result. It is this:
2 Corinthians 12:21 NLT - "Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure."
Incredibly, Paul is saying his problem with fear is that he is afraid that God will humble him! That's pretty backward (if Posthuman is going to teach that fear is a sin.) Why would Paul ever be afraid that God would humble him if fear were a sin? If fear is sin, then Paul was flat-out sick in the head.
Other than this, there is no reference to fear as being equated to the Sinful Nature or a lack of faith.
My next post is the list of passages that I have cataloged in an Excel Spreadsheet (if anyone thinks that I'm bluffing).
Okay, so here's what I have to offer. I have logged as many sets of passages that I could find that outlines the behaviors of the Sinful Nature. In all of the Scriptures and notes that I have collected and written, only five times does the word fear come up (relating to sin). Three of them actually have nothing to do with the concept that we're discussing, but one does. Here it is:
Romans 3:10-18 NLT - "As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one." "Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies." "Snake venom drips from their lips." "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." "They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don't know where to find peace." "They have no fear of God at all."
In fact, the problem is that these people LACK fear! And this is to be equated to possessing the Sinful Nature.
I searched for the word "afraid" and found another result. It is this:
2 Corinthians 12:21 NLT - "Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure."
Incredibly, Paul is saying his problem with fear is that he is afraid that God will humble him! That's pretty backward (if Posthuman is going to teach that fear is a sin.) Why would Paul ever be afraid that God would humble him if fear were a sin? If fear is sin, then Paul was flat-out sick in the head.
Other than this, there is no reference to fear as being equated to the Sinful Nature or a lack of faith.
My next post is the list of passages that I have cataloged in an Excel Spreadsheet (if anyone thinks that I'm bluffing).
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Fear IS NOT an element of the Sin Nature, thus anyone who possesses fear is NOT to be labeled as one who is a sinner because of their fears.
Num 25:01-9Behavior Of Sin NatureDeut 08:13Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 073:12Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 078:31-32Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 068:21Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 109:16-20Behavior Of Sin NatureProv 06:16-19Behavior Of Sin NatureProv 25:28Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Kings 11:05-8Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 05:20-23Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 29:16Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 57:20,21Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 59:03-15Behavior Of Sin NatureJer 07:31Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 08:07-13Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 08:15Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 23:30Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 03:19,20Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 05:44Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 03:22Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 05:22Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 07:21-23Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 11:20Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 13:53-58Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 10:34-36Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 06:02-6Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 06:66-67Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 07:21-23Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 08:43,44Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 08:45Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 09:41Behavior Of Sin NatureLuke 13:26,27Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 12:43Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 14:24Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 01:26Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:15Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:16Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:17Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:01Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:02Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:04Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:17Behavior Of Sin NatureGal 05:19-21Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Thess 04:06Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 03:01,2Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 05:01Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 06:09-11Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 12:02Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 14:20Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Cor 12:20Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Cor 12:21Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 03:10-18Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 06:17Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 06:18Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 08:08Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 16:17Behavior Of Sin NatureCol 01:21Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:01Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:01Behavior of Sin NatureEph 02:02Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:02,3Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 04:02Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 05:06Behavior Of Sin NaturePhil 01:17Behavior Of Sin NaturePhil 03:02Behavior of Sin NaturePhil 03:19Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Tim 06:05Behavior Of Sin NatureTitus 01:15,16Behavior of Sin NatureTitus 01:16Behavior Of Sin NatureTitus 03:03Behavior Of Sin NatureHeb 05:11,12Behavior Of Sin NatureHeb 10:26Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Pet 01:09,10Behavior Of Sin NatureJude 01:10Behavior Of Sin NatureJude 01:19Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:06Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:08,9Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:10Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 02:04Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 02:09Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:10Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:15Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:17Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 04:05Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 04:08Behavior Of Sin Nature
Num 25:01-9Behavior Of Sin NatureDeut 08:13Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 073:12Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 078:31-32Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 068:21Behavior Of Sin NaturePsa 109:16-20Behavior Of Sin NatureProv 06:16-19Behavior Of Sin NatureProv 25:28Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Kings 11:05-8Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 05:20-23Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 29:16Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 57:20,21Behavior Of Sin NatureIsa 59:03-15Behavior Of Sin NatureJer 07:31Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 08:07-13Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 08:15Behavior Of Sin NatureEze 23:30Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 03:19,20Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 05:44Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 03:22Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 05:22Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 07:21-23Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 11:20Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 13:53-58Behavior Of Sin NatureMatt 10:34-36Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 06:02-6Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 06:66-67Behavior Of Sin NatureMark 07:21-23Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 08:43,44Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 08:45Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 09:41Behavior Of Sin NatureLuke 13:26,27Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 12:43Behavior Of Sin NatureJohn 14:24Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 01:26Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:15Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:16Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 03:17Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:01Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:02Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:04Behavior Of Sin NatureJames 04:17Behavior Of Sin NatureGal 05:19-21Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Thess 04:06Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 03:01,2Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 05:01Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 06:09-11Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 12:02Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Cor 14:20Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Cor 12:20Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Cor 12:21Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 03:10-18Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 06:17Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 06:18Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 08:08Behavior Of Sin NatureRom 16:17Behavior Of Sin NatureCol 01:21Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:01Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:01Behavior of Sin NatureEph 02:02Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 02:02,3Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 04:02Behavior Of Sin NatureEph 05:06Behavior Of Sin NaturePhil 01:17Behavior Of Sin NaturePhil 03:02Behavior of Sin NaturePhil 03:19Behavior Of Sin Nature1 Tim 06:05Behavior Of Sin NatureTitus 01:15,16Behavior of Sin NatureTitus 01:16Behavior Of Sin NatureTitus 03:03Behavior Of Sin NatureHeb 05:11,12Behavior Of Sin NatureHeb 10:26Behavior Of Sin Nature2 Pet 01:09,10Behavior Of Sin NatureJude 01:10Behavior Of Sin NatureJude 01:19Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:06Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:08,9Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 01:10Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 02:04Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 02:09Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:10Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:15Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 03:17Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 04:05Behavior Of Sin Nature1 John 04:08Behavior Of Sin Nature
If fear is a sin, then the below Scripture seems like a pretty dangerous thing for Paul to teach:
Romans 11:20-21 NKJV - "Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either."
Paul literally teaches True Children of the Lord to be "fearful."
Another translation:
Romans 11:20 NLT - "Yes, but remember--those branches were broken off because they didn't believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don't think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen."
Romans 11:20-21 NKJV - "Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either."
Paul literally teaches True Children of the Lord to be "fearful."
Another translation:
Romans 11:20 NLT - "Yes, but remember--those branches were broken off because they didn't believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don't think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen."
Thanks for getting back to the OP topic . 
Most all the ideas stated here on why 'Jesus wept' are ones that have been part of my walk at one time or another . Their unbelief is the one i tend to go with.
Most all the ideas stated here on why 'Jesus wept' are ones that have been part of my walk at one time or another . Their unbelief is the one i tend to go with.
How much joy would Jesus have had that day if someone said. "Hallelujah! Jesus is Here! Lazarus is going to come out of that Grave NOW!!!" Jesus would have laughed out loud!!! and said "YESSSSS Finally..." Might have even told him. "Go ahead call Lazarus out."
I can just imagine it. Someone will disagree. That's OK. I won't argue about it. It's just how I see things. Faith is a really big deal.
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Godly fear is a good thing and not sin.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Psalm 56:3
When I am afraid, I put my trust in you.
In a general sense, a child being afraid of the dark or an adult who has suffered trauma that caused fear is not sin either. When that fear leads to the sin of unbelief, that is sin. I didn't read here that someone feared and didn't believe, only that they feared. Again, that is not sin.
Being empathetic to a person who said they were molested and were afraid, then, by saying fear is not sin and is part of being human, does not imply that I'm suggesting to others to be fearful and unbelieving.
Unbelief is sin, but fear in a general sense is not.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Psalm 56:3
When I am afraid, I put my trust in you.
In a general sense, a child being afraid of the dark or an adult who has suffered trauma that caused fear is not sin either. When that fear leads to the sin of unbelief, that is sin. I didn't read here that someone feared and didn't believe, only that they feared. Again, that is not sin.
Being empathetic to a person who said they were molested and were afraid, then, by saying fear is not sin and is part of being human, does not imply that I'm suggesting to others to be fearful and unbelieving.
Unbelief is sin, but fear in a general sense is not.
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