The sin of refusing sex

[Polar]

You have been told several times, now you're trying to play a victim. You were told up front what the topic was. But you ignored it.

Not at all. Are you responsible for the content in this thread or do you monitor it and decide who can say something or not?

You art not having the effect you seem to desire. I'm still here and will be as long as I wish to be, I suppose as long as I don't break the forum rules.

What I do choose to ignore is your bullying and desire to somehow create the impression I have said the things you attribute to me which I did not say or think.

Are you somehow special here? Saying I have been told? Who do you believe yourself to be?

 

[TheLearner]

I suppose laughing at something you don't understand, Indian girl, is understandable. However if you actually think sex is only physical, you do not understand or have not read what scripture says about it.

Let us, allow her to explain her full understanding of marriage.

 

[TheLearner]

Where in your bible does it say not having sex with your mate is a "sin"

Someone quoted I cor 7, maybe verse five. The bold part below is what they quoted. It may have been in the first post to start this thread.

1 Corinthians 7
Easy-to-Read Version
About Marriage
7 Now I will discuss the things you wrote me about. You asked if it is better for a man not to have any sexual relations at all. 2 But sexual sin is a danger, so each man should enjoy his own wife, and each woman should enjoy her own husband. 3 The husband should give his wife what she deserves as his wife. And the wife should give her husband what he deserves as her husband. 4 The wife does not have power over her own body. Her husband has the power over her body. And the husband does not have power over his own body. His wife has the power over his body. 5 Don’t refuse to give your bodies to each other. But you might both agree to stay away from sex for a while so that you can give your time to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not be able to tempt you in your weakness. 6 I say this only to give you permission to be separated for a time. It is not a rule. 7 I wish everyone could be like me. But God has given each person a different ability. He makes some able to live one way, others to live a different way.

 

[TheLearner]

Polar in short what is the point you are trying to make in simple short statements??? thanks, daniel

 

[1ofthem]

You have been told several times, now you're trying to play a victim. You were told up front what the topic was. But you ignored it.

Some people just like to argue just for the sake of argument. Seems we've found one.

She disagreed, agreed, and then disagreed again not even knowing what the total discussion is all about. She didn't want to read the thread close enough to find out what it was about and just jumped in like a bull in a china shop.

 

[Polar]

my bad on that one

OK. I was trying to understand but you were just being bad somehow? (joking)

I know that feeling. Someone bought up discipling our body or self control over our flesh. I was trying to back them up in that by those quotes. I keep to chair in the corner to give my sinful nature a beating.

Yes well get the spirit in line and the flesh will follow I think far too many in this thread...the parts I have read, should have a good sit down/time out, to address their thoughts that having sex will make everything ok. I maintain that the lack of sex, is usually because everything else is NOT ok. I am not referring to physical impairment and I say that because so much of what I have said here, has been attacked with nonsense and attributing to me things I never thought of let alone posted.

 

[TheLearner]

Not at all. Are you responsible for the content in this thread or do you monitor it and decide who can say something or not?

You art not having the effect you seem to desire. I'm still here and will be as long as I wish to be, I suppose as long as I don't break the forum rules.

What I do choose to ignore is your bullying and desire to somehow create the impression I have said the things you attribute to me which I did not say or think.

Are you somehow special here? Saying I have been told? Who do you believe yourself to be?

Be nice and develop a thick skin. Remember you can not hear people's tone of voice and text can be misunderstood.
And, Welcome, daniel

 

[TheLearner]

You have been told several times, now you're trying to play a victim. You were told up front what the topic was. But you ignored it.

Please, explain in simple sentences what the misunderstanding is. I am very tired today from medical treatments.

 

[Polar]

Polar in short what is the point you are trying to make in simple short statements??? thanks, daniel

Daniel if you read the quote from Got Questions I think that helps to address what I have been saying while being accused of hating sex or thinking. Then, I am told that I HAVE BEEN TOLD and I understand that to mean 'back off and go somewhere else'. That is not something that should be said to anyone here. I trust I am not breaking any forum rules by expressing what I see as less a command then common sense and again, if someone is refusing sex, that is not the actual problem unless they have a physical impairment. Some want nothing to do with sex (probably the exception) and should take Paul's advice.

I find the title of this thread to be akin to clickbait and I think the goal has been achieved. It was not meant to be in any way helpful or other than pointing fingers as has been well illustrated in this thread.

There are reasons why people might refuse sex and often enough that would be the woman who is still hurting over her husband's comments or treatment but that can go to either spouse as well. Did you read that post wherein I stated it was from GotQuestions? I think the subject is dealt with quite fairly in that article and the Bible is referenced for what is said. I cannot understand why I get attacked and bullied and basically told to shut up.

 

[Polar]

Be nice and develop a thick skin. Remember you can not hear people's tone of voice and text can be misunderstood.
And, Welcome, daniel

I have actual credence in counselling and I am not ignorant of when a person excuses themself over and over and makes false statements against another. Doesn't it exactly go that way in many marriage counselling sessions?

 

[TheLearner]

I just read this article that was posted. https://www.gotquestions.org/lack-of-sex-in-marriage.html

Clearly, the author should not be counciling married couples. Not all problems in marriage have a spiritual cause.

A couple should just sit down and talk it out without yelling, getting mad and with respect.

"
6 RULES FOR FIGHTING FAIR IN MARRIAGE
1. Watch your words.
Avoid name-calling, insults, put-downs, or swearing. Putting your partner down or criticizing their character is dishonoring them. Marriage is not a competition or a game where the end game is to win. When you result to using degrading language, it’s like saying to your spouse that they are not safe with you and you will do whatever it takes to win.
2. Stop the “blame game.”
Playing the blame game doesn’t solve the problem, make you feel better, or bring you closer together. In fact, it often escalates the argument and invites your partner to become defensive.
Make a conscious decision that your relationship is too important to undermine it with blame and judgment. Focus on finding solutions to the problem instead of entering the blame game.
3. Don’t yell.
Just like the blame game, yelling will only escalate the argument, and nothing will get resolved with emotions running high. When voices begin to rise, it may be time to step away and cool down.
4. Stay in your circle.
Focus on you (your circle) and how you feel rather than telling your partner how they feel.
Instead, work on identifying your unmet needs, feelings, or ways of thinking. Describe these by using words like “I feel” or “I need” or “I want” when communicating them to your spouse.
Avoid using words that describe what your partner feels, wants, or believes. Interpreting your spouse’s thoughts, feelings, and motives are presumptuous and controlling.
5. Stick to the present.
Keep your focus on what you can resolve today and go forward. If you get off-topic or find yourself bringing up past hurts, stop yourselves and agree to get back on track. You can always come back to it at a later date if it is an unresolved issue.
In the future, commit to deal with issues as they happen rather than sitting on them until they become an untreated wound.
6. Speak one-at-a-time.
Have you ever tried to resolve something when someone else is talking over you or interrupting? How did you feel?
Take turns speaking and listening, so each of you has a chance to say what you need. When one speaks, the other should actively listen. Rein in the urge to interrupt or speak your mind while your spouse is still talking.
Active listening is one of the important rules of fighting fair and building great communication skills in your marriage.
GET HELP TO ESTABLISH RULES FOR FIGHTING FAIR
"
https://www.eaglefamily.org/6-rules-fighting-fair/

 

[Polar]

Please, explain in simple sentences what the misunderstanding is. I am very tired today from medical treatments.

Didn't you read her nonsensical accusations? She has told me I think sex is dirty and other like things that have no basis in reality. I understand you are tired, but perhaps if you went back and read some of her interpretations of what I actually said, the problem will become clear.

Please do not try and counsel me as it appears you are doing. I can do that myself and I don't suppose we all do it the same. I don't know what the sensitivity to disagreeing or presenting another part of the equation is in her case, but there is more to sex and marriage than constantly stating God told you to do it.

I really am not going to go over the whole thing again. Not worth effort and whatever has been said is available for all to read.

 

[TheLearner]

Signs of Active Listening
Non-Verbal Signs of Attentive or Active Listening
This is a generic list of non-verbal signs of listening, in other words people who are listening are more likely to display at least some of these signs. However these signs may not be appropriate in all situations and across all cultures.
Smile
Small smiles can be used to show that the listener is paying attention to what is being said or as a way of agreeing or being happy about the messages being received. Combined with nods of the head, smiles can be powerful in affirming that messages are being listened to and understood.
Eye Contact
It is normal and usually encouraging for the listener to look at the speaker. Eye contact can however be intimidating, especially for more shy speakers – gauge how much eye contact is appropriate for any given situation. Combine eye contact with smiles and other non-verbal messages to encourage the speaker.
Posture
Posture can tell a lot about the sender and receiver in interpersonal interactions. The attentive listener tends to lean slightly forward or sideways whilst sitting. Other signs of active listening may include a slight slant of the head or resting the head on one hand.
Mirroring
Automatic reflection/mirroring of any facial expressions used by the speaker can be a sign of attentive listening. These reflective expressions can help to show sympathy and empathy in more emotional situations. Attempting to consciously mimic facial expressions (i.e. not automatic reflection of expressions) can be a sign of inattention.
Distraction
The active listener will not be distracted and therefore will refrain from fidgeting, looking at a clock or watch, doodling, playing with their hair or picking their fingernails.

See our pages: Non-Verbal Communication, Body Language and Personal Appearance for more information.​

Be Aware That:
It is perfectly possible to learn and mimic non-verbal signs of active listening and not actually be listening at all.
It is more difficult to mimic verbal signs of listening and comprehension.
Verbal Signs of Attentive or Active Listening

Positive Reinforcement
Although a strong signal of attentiveness, caution should be used when using positive verbal reinforcement.
Although some positive words of encouragement may be beneficial to the speaker the listener should use them sparingly so as not to distract from what is being said or place unnecessary emphasis on parts of the message.
Casual and frequent use of words and phrases, such as: ‘very good’, ‘yes’ or ‘indeed’ can become irritating to the speaker. It is usually better to elaborate and explain why you are agreeing with a certain point.
Remembering
The human mind is notoriously bad at remembering details, especially for any length of time.
However, remembering a few key points, or even the name of the speaker, can help to reinforce that the messages sent have been received and understood – i.e. listening has been successful. Remembering details, ideas and concepts from previous conversations proves that attention was kept and is likely to encourage the speaker to continue. During longer exchanges it may be appropriate to make very brief notes to act as a memory jog when questioning or clarifying later.

See our page: Note-Taking.​

Questioning
The listener can demonstrate that they have been paying attention by asking relevant questions and/or making statements that build or help to clarify what the speaker has said. By asking relevant questions the listener also helps to reinforce that they have an interest in what the speaker has been saying.

See our pages: Questioning and Types of Question for more information.​

Reflection
Reflecting is closely repeating or paraphrasing what the speaker has said in order to show comprehension. Reflection is a powerful skill that can reinforce the message of the speaker and demonstrate understanding.

See our page: Reflection.​

Clarification
Clarifying involves asking questions of the speaker to ensure that the correct message has been received. Clarification usually involves the use of open questions which enables the speaker to expand on certain points as necessary.

See our page on Clarification.​

Summarisation
Repeating a summary of what has been said back to the speaker is a technique used by the listener to repeat what has been said in their own words. Summarising involves taking the main points of the received message and reiterating them in a logical and clear way, giving the speaker chance to correct if necessary.


Read more at: https://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/active-listening.html

 

[TheLearner]

https://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/listening-principles.html

 

[Polar]

Clearly, the author should not be counciling married couples. Not all problems in marriage have a spiritual cause.

Christians can and do ignore that aspect of sex, but it is both their loss and a big problem. There a different interpretations presented in this forum and I would simply say that is your prerogative.

And of course not all problems are spiritual, but the answer most often likely is. I don't know what kind of counselling you offer, but a quick dismissal by pointing out what you do not agree with, is not exactly indicating the article should be tossed. I don't think we are going to agree here, at least I hope you don't try to convince me that you are right as has been done by others over and over in this thread and it is nonsense.

What I have, is the right to disagree as you have done and there is nothing wrong there. Becoming spiteful (not you) is not a simple disagreement.

 

[Polar]

Signs of Active Listening
Non-Verbal Signs of Attentive or Active Listening
This is a generic list of non-verbal signs of listening, in other words people who are listening are more likely to display at least some of these signs. However these signs may not be appropriate in all situations and across all cultures.
Smile
Small smiles can be used to show that the listener is paying attention to what is being said or as a way of agreeing or being happy about the messages being received. Combined with nods of the head, smiles can be powerful in affirming that messages are being listened to and understood.
Eye Contact
It is normal and usually encouraging for the listener to look at the speaker. Eye contact can however be intimidating, especially for more shy speakers – gauge how much eye contact is appropriate for any given situation. Combine eye contact with smiles and other non-verbal messages to encourage the speaker.
Posture
Posture can tell a lot about the sender and receiver in interpersonal interactions. The attentive listener tends to lean slightly forward or sideways whilst sitting. Other signs of active listening may include a slight slant of the head or resting the head on one hand.
Mirroring
Automatic reflection/mirroring of any facial expressions used by the speaker can be a sign of attentive listening. These reflective expressions can help to show sympathy and empathy in more emotional situations. Attempting to consciously mimic facial expressions (i.e. not automatic reflection of expressions) can be a sign of inattention.
Distraction
The active listener will not be distracted and therefore will refrain from fidgeting, looking at a clock or watch, doodling, playing with their hair or picking their fingernails.

See our pages: Non-Verbal Communication, Body Language and Personal Appearance for more information.​

Be Aware That:
It is perfectly possible to learn and mimic non-verbal signs of active listening and not actually be listening at all.
It is more difficult to mimic verbal signs of listening and comprehension.
Verbal Signs of Attentive or Active Listening

Positive Reinforcement
Although a strong signal of attentiveness, caution should be used when using positive verbal reinforcement.
Although some positive words of encouragement may be beneficial to the speaker the listener should use them sparingly so as not to distract from what is being said or place unnecessary emphasis on parts of the message.
Casual and frequent use of words and phrases, such as: ‘very good’, ‘yes’ or ‘indeed’ can become irritating to the speaker. It is usually better to elaborate and explain why you are agreeing with a certain point.
Remembering
The human mind is notoriously bad at remembering details, especially for any length of time.
However, remembering a few key points, or even the name of the speaker, can help to reinforce that the messages sent have been received and understood – i.e. listening has been successful. Remembering details, ideas and concepts from previous conversations proves that attention was kept and is likely to encourage the speaker to continue. During longer exchanges it may be appropriate to make very brief notes to act as a memory jog when questioning or clarifying later.

See our page: Note-Taking.​

Questioning
The listener can demonstrate that they have been paying attention by asking relevant questions and/or making statements that build or help to clarify what the speaker has said. By asking relevant questions the listener also helps to reinforce that they have an interest in what the speaker has been saying.

See our pages: Questioning and Types of Question for more information.​

Reflection
Reflecting is closely repeating or paraphrasing what the speaker has said in order to show comprehension. Reflection is a powerful skill that can reinforce the message of the speaker and demonstrate understanding.

See our page: Reflection.​

Clarification
Clarifying involves asking questions of the speaker to ensure that the correct message has been received. Clarification usually involves the use of open questions which enables the speaker to expand on certain points as necessary.

See our page on Clarification.​

Summarisation
Repeating a summary of what has been said back to the speaker is a technique used by the listener to repeat what has been said in their own words. Summarising involves taking the main points of the received message and reiterating them in a logical and clear way, giving the speaker chance to correct if necessary.


Read more at: https://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/active-listening.html

Yet you state that I should grow a thick skin and remember that this is a forum and sometimes we can get the tone wrong.

That is all fine when not on a forum. You are simply stating your preferences for counselling and that's fine. That does not automatically make you right all the time either.

 

[1ofthem]

So, I just read about the first 4 ½ pages of this thread and the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread up until this post that I’m now quoting (haven’t yet read what comes after it), and I obviously missed quite a bit of what was said in between those pages. If I therefore say something out of ignorance, then know that I literally am ignorant of quite a bit of what’s been said on this thread, and please direct me to anything pertinent that I might have missed. Thank you.

With that disclaimer out of the way, I stepped out of retirement (again) to give my opinion on what you said here as a man who was once married for 17 years.

In relation to “being at work all day”, for the entirety of my marriage, I was self-employed, and that was by design. In other words, I wanted the flexibility to make my own schedule so that it would leave me time to serve God, and to best accommodate the needs of my wife and any children that we might have (we had three) together. Normally, I worked only three days a week, but those workdays, including my commute in both directions, sometimes lasted as many as 14 to even 20 hours in a single day. So, yeah, there were many times when I was “at work all day”, and my “work” often didn’t end when I arrived home either.

As I already mentioned, over the course of time, my wife and I had three children, and they were all initially homeschooled. On the days which I worked outside of the home, my wife did most of the homeschooling (while also performing a whole host of other parental duties), but, even then, I normally taught our children math, science, and English (my wife’s native tongue was Spanish) after I arrived home from working all day long.

In all honesty, there definitely were many days when I was working that the thoughts of intimacy with my wife later that night came to my mind and somewhat invigorated me. Notice that I said “intimacy with my wife”, as in making love to her, and not as in merely “having sex” with her. In other words, there’s A LOT MORE to intimacy than just some sexual act. Yes, believe it or not (believe it), I actually desired a SPIRITUAL AND SOULISH CONNECTION with my wife FIRST, and not just some sort of self-satisfying physical act. Anyhow, there were also many times when such thoughts of intimacy never came to fruition for at least the following two reasons.

First of all, as I’ve mentioned on this forum before, I learned that my wife had been sexually molested by her own father repeatedly between the ages of 5 and 6 years old about a month or so AFTER she and I were married. I’m mentioning this again because there were many times during my marriage when my wife had flashbacks of what her father had done to her as we were getting intimate ourselves, and we always refrained from any sexual activity during those times. Unlike some “dog in heat” (which is how men seem to be described in some of the posts that I have read here in relation to their “needs”), I was very understanding and compassionate, and I oftentimes just spent the night holding my wife, and praying for her/with her, and I was totally content in doing the same. The thought of me possibly telling her, “Hey, woman…roll over and perform your conjugal duties!” never even entered my mind, but it seems as if some people here would have no problem at all if they had.

Another reason why my thoughts of intimacy with my wife oftentimes never came to fruition was that I oftentimes put such thoughts to bed (by themselves) on my own. In other words, raising three children at home all day long is full-time work in and of itself, and there were many times when I could sense that my wife just needed some quiet time of her own, and I gladly gave it to her. Again, the thought of me possibly telling her, “Hey, woman…roll over and perform your conjugal duties!” never even entered my mind, but it seems as if some people here would have no problem at all if they had.

After all, she better NOT defraud me of what I’m due and sin against God in the process, right?

Wrong.

Well, wrong for those who actually see their wives as something more than just a leg to hump like the aforementioned dog in heat, anyway.

Maybe there’s something wrong with me (or maybe I’m just a normal Christian), but it seems to me that my now ex-wife (and all women) are more than just a body with a hole in it. Sorry, to be so vulgar, but that’s how some people here almost seem to be describing women themselves. Personally, I always (and I still do, even though we’re now divorced) saw my wife as a spirit-being who possessed a soul, and who lived inside of a body. Her spirit and her soul were of top priority to me, and if I took care of those two aspects of her being, then physical intimacy, apart from the reasons that I already mentioned, was never an issue. And don’t forget that my wife basically HATED ME and tried to destroy me for almost the entirety of our marriage…even as I’ve mentioned here quite a few times in the past. Even then, I still treated her right, and she oftentimes desired intimacy with me. In fact, I still recall that right after a courtroom judge found me innocent of all the phony charges that my wife pressed against me with the police, phony charges in which she sought to take my children away from me permanently, she told me that she wanted to make love to me. Go figure. She’s either nuts or I’m simply irresistible…lol (most likely the former of the two).

Anyhow, women aren’t just some piece of meat that God demands to be served on a man’s plate when he gets home from work, nor are men just some sort of living sex toy for women to enjoy at their fancy. The same Paul who wrote I Corinthians chapter 7 also wrote Ephesians chapter 5 in which he likened the natural marriage relationship between a man and his wife to that of the spiritual relationship between Christ and the church.

Does Christ just care about our bodies while ignoring our spiritual and soulish/emotional needs?

Seems to me that we’re supposed to love him with our whole heart, mind, and strength.

How about husbands do the same towards their wives, IN THAT ORDER, and then see what happens as far as sexual intimacy is concerned?

In my personal observations, and I say this as a man, most men truly are just like “dogs in heat”.

I don’t know about you, but when a dog tries to hump my leg, I push it away.

I’m certainly not seeking to justify all women who similarly push their husbands away, but there definitely is a very real parallel at times.

That said, most women are no day at the beach either…unless there’s a typhoon…lol.

Anyhow, none of this was meant solely for you, kaylagirl.

Instead, I’m just using your comment as a springboard to say certain things which I felt needed to be said.

For whatever that’s worth.

P.S.

I honestly feel sorry for any of you who truly live in a world/situation where “the woman holds all the cards when it comes to sex”.

That’s not the world/situation in which I live/lived, nor is it the way that God designed things to be.

If a man’s wife doesn’t desire intimacy with him, then, in my estimation, it’s probably more the man’s fault than the woman’s fault.

P.P.S.

Quite frankly, I find some of the comments on this thread to be demeaning to both men and women alike in that they’ve basically been described as slabs of meat to satisfy the carnal cravings of others…and all in the name of allegedly obeying God’s word.

Whatever.

Nice to see you back...again...again...lol.

While I agree with what you are saying...Here's the thing, this thread has been taken from one extreme to the next over and over again. You've got people going off in all kinds of crazy directions. No one, to my knowledge, anyhow was advocating treating anyone like a piece of meat or indicating that sex is the only thing marriage is built on.

It has all been discussed numerous times in this thread, and people just keep attacking and accusing others.

So like I said, I agree with your sentiments here.

But really, I wish I hadn't even engaged in this thread 2 years ago when it began. It really has been fruitless and a bunch of nonsense and accusations.

 

[Polar]

I just read this article that was posted. https://www.gotquestions.org/lack-of-sex-in-marriage.html

Clearly, the author should not be counciling married couples. Not all problems in marriage have a spiritual cause.

A couple should just sit down and talk it out without yelling, getting mad and with respect.

And yet and yet, marriage is compared to the relationship between Christ and the church (meaning body of believers and not a building of course)

Christian marriages are sadly a testimony to the fact that far too many of them have been taking advice from anything but the word of God

 

[TheLearner]

MY Statement on Sex in Marriage.

Hebrews 13:4
GOD’S WORD Translation
Marriage is honorable in every way, so husbands and wives should be faithful to each other.

Hebrews 13:4
Amplified Bible
4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all [that is, regarded as something of great value], and the marriage bed undefiled [by immorality or by any sexual sin]; for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

and, it is fun, brings couples closer together.

 

[TheLearner]

Yet you state that I should grow a thick skin and remember that this is a forum and sometimes we can get the tone wrong.

That is all fine when not on a forum. You are simply stating your preferences for counselling and that's fine. That does not automatically make you right all the time either.

You should ask my wife, she will agree.