Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

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J

JAPOV

Guest
#681
#681
Runningman said:
If the rapture is pre-trib then why are there Christians in the great tribulation who aren’t raptured?
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Because God is merciful. The pre-trib rapture will take away the hindering Spirit (the true church) allowing the false prophet to come to power. However, God provides 144,000 to minister to the world during the tribulation. Again, many during the tribulation will have the knowledge of God but deny His power and accept the mark of the beast... but God also promises to pour out His Spirit at that time and many will be saved.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#682
Mar 4, 2020
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#682
JAPOV said:
Because God is merciful. The pre-trib rapture will take away the hindering Spirit (the true church) allowing the false prophet to come to power. However, God provides 144,000 to minister to the world during the tribulation. Again, many during the tribulation will have the knowledge of God but deny His power and accept the mark of the beast... but God also promises to pour out His Spirit at that time and many will be saved.
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Can’t be a Christian without the Holy Spirit so the Holy Spirit can’t be removed or God would have effectively turned His back on earth, making it impossible to even have faith in Christ.

Where do the pre-trib rapture people go?
 
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peldom10

Banned
#683
May 22, 2020
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#683
Runningman said:
If the rapture is pre-trib then why are there Christians in the great tribulation who aren’t raptured?
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Because some who missed the rapture .................then turned to God and accepted Christ.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#685
#685
Runningman said:
Can’t be a Christian without the Holy Spirit so the Holy Spirit can’t be removed or God would have effectively turned His back on earth, making it impossible to even have faith in Christ.

Where do the pre-trib rapture people go?
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1 Thessalonians 4;
The Coming of the Lord
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
 
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peldom10

Banned
#687
May 22, 2020
2,382
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#687
Runningman said:
.........................Where do the pre-trib rapture people go?
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Scriptures say they will be taken up ( Raptured_) and meet Christ in the air..... ;

  1. Where Will We Go After Meeting Him In The Air?

    According to 1 Thes. 4:16-17 we will meet the Lord in the air and after that we will always be with Him. In 1 Cor. 15:51-53 Paul said we’ll be changed from mortal to immortal in the process.
  2. In John 14:2-3 Jesus said we’re going to “My Father’s house” where there are many mansions (literally dwelling places, abodes) and where He has been preparing a place for us.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#688
Mar 4, 2020
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#688
None of those replies or verses show that the rapture occurs in a pre-great tribulation timeline. Sorry I don’t mean to derail this thread but pre-trib rapture is another bogus false doctrine. That’s my official stance. Please carry on.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#689
Jan 31, 2021
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#689
Runningman said:
If the rapture is pre-trib then why are there Christians in the great tribulation who aren’t raptured?
peldom10 said:
Because some who missed the rapture .................then turned to God and accepted Christ.
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The Bible is very clear that there is only one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15.

1 Cor 15:23 says very plainly that the resurrection of the saved (those who belong to Him) will be "when He comes", which is a direct reference to the Second Advent.

There's no wriggle room for multiple resurrections. Only one. After the tribulation.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#690
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#690
Runningman said:
Can’t be a Christian without the Holy Spirit so the Holy Spirit can’t be removed or God would have effectively turned His back on earth, making it impossible to even have faith in Christ.

Where do the pre-trib rapture people go?
JAPOV said:
1 Thessalonians 4;
The Coming of the Lord
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
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Where is your answer to Runningman? He asked where the pre-trib rapture people go? The passage DOESN'T say anything about Jesus taking the glorified believers anywhere.

One has to speculate where Jesus would take them.

In fact, since the singular resurrection of the saved is "when He comes" a direct reference to the Second Advent, we know that Jesus doesn't take them anywhere. They stay with Him as 1 Thess 4:17 very clearly states. Which is ON earth, where Jesus begins the Millennial reign on earth, with all believers, now glorified, reign or serve with Him.

There are NO verses that show Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#691
#691
Runningman said:
None of those replies or verses show that the rapture occurs in a pre-great tribulation timeline. Sorry I don’t mean to derail this thread but pre-trib rapture is another bogus false doctrine. That’s my official stance. Please carry on.
Click to expand...
Because God is merciful. The pre-trib rapture will take away the hindering Spirit (the true church) allowing the false prophet to come to power. However, God provides 144,000 to minister to the world during the tribulation. Again, many during the tribulation will have the knowledge of God but deny His power and accept the mark of the beast... but God also promises to pour out His Spirit at that time and many will be saved.
 
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BeeThePeace

Active member
#692
May 2, 2022
443
135
43
#692
Runningman said:
None of those replies or verses show that the rapture occurs in a pre-great tribulation timeline. Sorry I don’t mean to derail this thread but pre-trib rapture is another bogus false doctrine. That’s my official stance. Please carry on.
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That's your personal opinion .

The scripture is the official stance. And those state the church, separate from Israel, will be raptured before the tribulation. That terrible day of the Lord.

Those Christians who have already died will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4
Runningman said:
None of those replies or verses show that the rapture occurs in a pre-great tribulation timeline. Sorry I don’t mean to derail this thread but pre-trib rapture is another bogus false doctrine. That’s my official stance. Please carry on.
Click to expand...
That's your personal opinion. Scripture says otherwise and is the official stance of God.
I Thessalonians 4 tells us those already dead but in Christ will be raptured first. Then those who are alive and in Christ shall be next.

The Saints are not to suffer God's anger. 1 Thessalonians 1 and also chapter 5.

There shall be converts after this because people will be able to be saved because God will continue to call out to them. Revelation 7.
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#693
Aug 18, 2021
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#693
OSAS, does this apply to all. If so, what does the Scripture of 1 Timothy Cha4:1 mean?


Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructions.

If believers can turn away to Satan at the last times, why can't they turn away now also? And if they turn to demonic spirits, they surely won't be saved.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm???????? Turning away from the faith and being saved, how does that work for OSAS?
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#694
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
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#694
arthurfleminger said:
OSAS, does this apply to all. If so, what does the Scripture of 1 Timothy Cha4:1 mean?


Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructions.

If believers can turn away to Satan at the last times, why can't they turn away now also? And if they turn to demonic spirits, they surely won't be saved.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm???????? Turning away from the faith and being saved, how does that work for OSAS?
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The doctrine of eternal security essentially states that nothing can cause' 'One time believers' to be disfellowshipped from God once a person is saved. Without going too deep, it should be noted that there are numerous variations and machinations of this doctrine. In its most extreme form, a person could theoretically be saved and murder his wife while remaining “unconditionally” saved.

Sadly, this dangerous doctrine flatly contradicts Scripture, and it is commonly used as a smokescreen to justify sinful lifestyles. In other words, “once saved, always saved” appeals to the most carnal leanings of our humanity. It gives false legitimacy for sin, false comfort to sinners, and builds a pseudo-biblical barrier between countless sinners and repentance.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#695
#695
Rev 6;
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothersc should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Many during the tribulation will actually die instead of pledging themselves to the antichrist.
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#696
Aug 18, 2021
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#696
It’s eerie how the notion of eternal security shares similarities with Satan’s seduction of Eve in the garden of Eden. The serpent assured Eve, “…Ye shall not surely die (Genesis 3:4).” The satanic implication being that Eve could live in disobedience without fear of Divine consequences. The doctrine of eternal security makes the same false claim, and it originates from the same satanic source.
 
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JAPOV

Guest
#697
#697
Now I'm absolutely convinced... How many on this site not only go out of their way to manipulate scripture and deny the power of God's Word, but also sacrifice God given common sense for arrogant self serving will? Now I understand the seducing spirit of delusion and why I shouldn't cast pearls before swine.....
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#699
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
770
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#699
arthurfleminger said:
It’s eerie how the notion of eternal security shares similarities with Satan’s seduction of Eve in the garden of Eden. The serpent assured Eve, “…Ye shall not surely die (Genesis 3:4).” The satanic implication being that Eve could live in disobedience without fear of Divine consequences. The doctrine of eternal security makes the same false claim, and it originates from the same satanic source.
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Let’s put it this way; nothing can force you to separate yourself from God except you. Satan can’t make you do it any more than he made Eve do it. Eve exercised her free will. Adam exercised his free will. And they both suffered the consequences of their actions. Sin separates us from a right relationship with God, but it does not remove us from the love of God. For example, “…God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).” God loves us even while we are in sin, but to say the cross made sin acceptable is to undermine the cross’s necessity in the first place completely. The phrasing “while we were yet sinners” shows Paul’s assumption that believers would naturally understand sinful lifestyles must be discarded.

For those of you who have ignorantly fooled yourselves into believing that you may lead lives of unrepentant sin and that God will save you, good luck with that, you'll need it.

It was Calvin who first proposed the OSAS premise, 1500 years after Christ. It was never heard of before that. So, for those of you who place your faith and salvation in OSAS, you are placing your faith in Calvin and not in Christ.
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#700
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
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#700
Consider these self-explanatory Scriptures from the book of Hebrews:
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame (Hebrews 6:4-6).”

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (Hebrews 10:26-27).”

“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:38-39).”

Additionally, Peter speaks plainly of people who return and are “overcome” by the “pollutions of the world,” stating that it would be better if they had never known the “way of righteousness” in the first place (2 Peter 2:20-22). But the words of Jesus are the most potent, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).”

Good luck with OSAS, you'll need it, but it is not wise to base your hopes of salvation on luck.
 
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