Uvalde, TX School Shooting

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#61
I disagree it is one of the issues and it was done in two major shootings where I believe in Parkland or sandy hook the shooter came to his mother's classroom and killed her and shot the students. It was known of his mental issues and the mother purchased the guns for him knowing this. The school had the shooter as a student hiding him in lower grades because his mother was a teacher.

again by law, you must maintain confidentially of a person who s known to be a psychopath where the public school system all have a psychologist and trained counselors to identify these issues. The Law is flawed. and needs to be addressed. The confidentially of the student can be kept as he or she is removed from the school setting and not allowed to return without documented help.

Just to add, Gov. Abbott just spoke and said he asked around the area what people felt was the issue. According to him he said there are problems with mental health issues and not enough people to help with those issues. He also said he had passed 17 laws to do with protecting schools.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,214
2,522
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#62
Speaking out against ungodly indoctrination is going overboard?
No...
But the rhetoric is and has been for a long time.

To the unbalanced mind they cannot distinguish the difference between rhetoric and reality.

And you can see some of the guilty parties by who says that I am so wrong. They are the ones who practically shoved the gun into the deranged person's hands with their over the top rhetoric.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#63
And I would include in that the mental health of all those people who believe life is sacred, right up until it is born.
Sorry, could you explain what you mean by that?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#64
No...
But the rhetoric is and has been for a long time.

To the unbalanced mind they cannot distinguish the difference between rhetoric and reality.

And you can see some of the guilty parties by who says that I am so wrong. They are the ones who practically shoved the gun into the deranged person's hands with their over the top rhetoric.

It's as simple as this, we have Marxists trying to push their agenda in this country. Folks are just now waking up to it. Like a lobster in a pot, suddenly the heat has been turned up and people, the vast majority, do not want this in their schools,jobs,govt, country. And so they are standing up to fight it. Before, Obama tried to sneak these things in, but Biden is a puppet. They aren't going to risk another loss, they are going full throttle to push their agenda, and the other side is pushing back. That is why there is chaos. And yes, mental people on either side will be aroused by this, so yes, you have to deal with those people. But to say that anyone other than the shooter is responsible for the death of these children is just untrue. The blame fully lands on the one who pulled the gun. So far they have found no criminal past or any issues. Sometimes evil is evil and people need to understand that.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,802
7,785
113
#65
And I would include in that the mental health of all those people who believe life is sacred, right up until it is born.
are you saying the mental health of those who believe life is sacred is suspect?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,665
6,725
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#67
I disagree it is one of the issues and it was done in two major shootings where I believe in Parkland or sandy hook the shooter came to his mother's classroom and killed her and shot the students. It was known of his mental issues and the mother purchased the guns for him knowing this. The school had the shooter as a student hiding him in lower grades because his mother was a teacher.

again by law, you must maintain confidentially of a person who s known to be a psychopath where the public school system all have a psychologist and trained counselors to identify these issues. The Law is flawed. and needs to be addressed. The confidentially of the student can be kept as he or she is removed from the school setting and not allowed to return without documented help.
Schools can refer kids to psychologists, we do all the time, and we see many, many kids with emotional issues that get referred.

If the psychologist were to discover something they think needs to be referred to the FBI then there are laws that govern that. But you have to remember you are dealing with minors and in most cases there are no crimes, only thoughts, acting out in class, and other warning signs. If kids and parents don't trust you to keep the information confidential then you will have a number of issues.

1. For every killer you may discover beforehand (highly theoretical) you will probably damage or destroy 100 kids.

Lawsuits will proliferate as over zealous do gooders slander all kinds of kids.

Parents will pull kids from the public school.

There has to be both trust and protection for minors to go to school. If I, as a teacher, had wanted to make a federal offense out of every insult, or threat I heard teaching high school it would have been daily referrals to the FBI. Since there were 40 teachers in my school just multiply my 1-2 referrals by 40. Since this was only one very small school in a huge school system you can probably put at least 2 0's after that. Somewhere around 1,000 referrals to the FBI from NYC high schools per day.

How do you think parents are going to feel about you referring their kid to the FBI because he said he was going to kill Tyrone for taking his book bag and hiding it?

On the other hand no teacher would dare not to refer these threats because 30 other kids heard it and if anything does happen in the future you will lose your job.

Yes, psychologists and social workers do work alongside the school, but most people associate "schools" with teachers and educators. Teachers and educators should simply refer the kids to a social worker or psychologist. If after careful evaluation a mental health professional felt they needed to make a referral to law enforcement then so be it. Putting the onus on schools is, speaking as a teacher who worked in a inner city public high school, idiotic.

Our primary mission should be to teach, not to be law enforcement. Obviously, if we see something alarming (and I probably did see alarming things 5-10 times throughout my entire career) then those should be written up and referred to the authorities to investigate.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,214
2,522
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#69
It's as simple as this, we have Marxists trying to push their agenda in this country. Folks are just now waking up to it. Like a lobster in a pot, suddenly the heat has been turned up and people, the vast majority, do not want this in their schools,jobs,govt, country. And so they are standing up to fight it. Before, Obama tried to sneak these things in, but Biden is a puppet. They aren't going to risk another loss, they are going full throttle to push their agenda, and the other side is pushing back. That is why there is chaos. And yes, mental people on either side will be aroused by this, so yes, you have to deal with those people. But to say that anyone other than the shooter is responsible for the death of these children is just untrue. The blame fully lands on the one who pulled the gun. So far they have found no criminal past or any issues. Sometimes evil is evil and people need to understand that.
I'm not suggesting that we allow people to groom children for sexually deviant purposes...far from it. We should be incarcerating those who suggest that we allow such things.

But the rhetoric needs to stop.

It's not like it hasn't been done before. Whole school boards have been forced to resign and face Criminal charges for child grooming. (When the vote was unanimous...dissenters were free to resume)

The rhetoric is what I'm saying is the problem.

Mental illness is as old as Cain and Abel. It definitely hasn't gotten any better since then. We are not going to get rid of mental illness. We need to learn to live with those in our society who are not right in the head....part of which was once understood and we did not give full vent to rhetoric...because of the unbalanced and the effect upon society as a whole.

Even the Declaration of Independence has listed within it 22 different ways that King George was the AntiChrist without directly stating such....because to do so would be a sin.

And we treasure such documents today....because of the eloquence and direct meaning.

If the document said King George was a fink....well we wouldn't treasure that document today.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
113
#70
Schools can refer kids to psychologists, we do all the time, and we see many, many kids with emotional issues that get referred.

If the psychologist were to discover something they think needs to be referred to the FBI then there are laws that govern that. But you have to remember you are dealing with minors and in most cases there are no crimes, only thoughts, acting out in class, and other warning signs. If kids and parents don't trust you to keep the information confidential then you will have a number of issues.

1. For every killer you may discover beforehand (highly theoretical) you will probably damage or destroy 100 kids.

Lawsuits will proliferate as over zealous do gooders slander all kinds of kids.

Parents will pull kids from the public school.

There has to be both trust and protection for minors to go to school. If I, as a teacher, had wanted to make a federal offense out of every insult, or threat I heard teaching high school it would have been daily referrals to the FBI. Since there were 40 teachers in my school just multiply my 1-2 referrals by 40. Since this was only one very small school in a huge school system you can probably put at least 2 0's after that. Somewhere around 1,000 referrals to the FBI from NYC high schools per day.

How do you think parents are going to feel about you referring their kid to the FBI because he said he was going to kill Tyrone for taking his book bag and hiding it?

On the other hand no teacher would dare not to refer these threats because 30 other kids heard it and if anything does happen in the future you will lose your job.

Yes, psychologists and social workers do work alongside the school, but most people associate "schools" with teachers and educators. Teachers and educators should simply refer the kids to a social worker or psychologist. If after careful evaluation a mental health professional felt they needed to make a referral to law enforcement then so be it. Putting the onus on schools is, speaking as a teacher who worked in a inner city public high school, idiotic.

Our primary mission should be to teach, not to be law enforcement. Obviously, if we see something alarming (and I probably did see alarming things 5-10 times throughout my entire career) then those should be written up and referred to the authorities to investigate.
I work in schools and network with many schools I attend board meetings and admin meetings every school district has a lawyer why? who pays for them? No one is referring the kids to the FBI that is a false narrative. CA and NY are the most abusive school systems around. Sexual abuse in CA and NY has sky rocked teachers on students. As a school educator I and minister, inner-city is and has been my whole life and 20 years of military service. talk about foolish suggesting one is calling the FBI LOL. rediculous.
FYI the public school system's success in education has been failing for the past 20 years.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
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#71
I work in schools and network with many schools I attend board meetings and admin meetings every school district has a lawyer why? who pays for them? No one is referring the kids to the FBI that is a false narrative. CA and NY are the most abusive school systems around. Sexual abuse in CA and NY has sky rocked teachers on students. As a school educator I and minister, inner-city is and has been my whole life and 20 years of military service. talk about foolish suggesting one is calling the FBI LOL. rediculous.
FYI the public school system's success in education has been failing for the past 20 years.
in addition, the public school which are majority liberal and controlled by teachers' unions do more to help kids be abused with CRT and transgender garbage than educate them. the FED GOV set the standard of education and for the past 12 years with the exception of 2016 -2020 liberals have run the educational system into the ground with common core, CRT, and now Transgender activism. You can toll the line all you want.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#72
UPDATE: It was not a protester that stopped Gov. Abbotts presser, it was Beto O' Roarke. Speaking of rhetoric, I hope this sinks his chances of running for anything in the future.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,665
6,725
113
#73
talk about foolish suggesting one is calling the FBI LOL. rediculous.
FYI the public school system's success in education has been failing for the past 20 years.
Really? You might want to try looking into the Buffalo shooting. The school referred that kid because of threats he made in an english assignment.

Yes, of course it is "rare". How often does a kid in school come and shoot up the school? Didn't happen in Sandy Hook, didn't happen in Texas, those people were not in the school at the time.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
113
#74
Really? You might want to try looking into the Buffalo shooting. The school referred that kid because of threats he made in an english assignment.

Yes, of course it is "rare". How often does a kid in school come and shoot up the school? Didn't happen in Sandy Hook, didn't happen in Texas, those people were not in the school at the time.

actually yes it did,

the shooter of sandy Hook:

sometime before 9:30 a.m. EST on Friday, December 14, 2012, Lanza shot and killed his mother Nancy Lanza, aged 52, with a .22-caliber Savage Mark II rifle at their Newtown home. Investigators later found her body clad in pajamas, in her bed, with four gunshot wounds to her head. Lanza then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School in his mother's car.

You do not know what you are talking about.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,665
6,725
113
#75
actually yes it did,

the shooter of sandy Hook:

sometime before 9:30 a.m. EST on Friday, December 14, 2012, Lanza shot and killed his mother Nancy Lanza, aged 52, with a .22-caliber Savage Mark II rifle at their Newtown home. Investigators later found her body clad in pajamas, in her bed, with four gunshot wounds to her head. Lanza then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School in his mother's car.

You do not know what you are talking about.
Lanza was not an elementary school kid. He was 20 years old. He was a college student. How could any referral from an elementary school 10 years earlier have been relevant?

My point is not that there haven't been school shootings, anyone who interpreted that from what I wrote would have to have been willfully attempting to distort the meaning. My point is that it wasn't an elementary school kid in Sandy Hook that got angry and that the teachers could have identified. Same thing in Texas.

The Columbine shooting was a good example of an angry student shooting up the school, but nationwide schools adjusted to deal with bullying as a result of that shooting.

As a teacher I attended multiple trainings on a yearly basis on how to deal with bullying, stamp out bullying, and help kids who are being bullied.

Blaming the Sandy Hook elementary school for the shooting or this elementary school in Texas is idiotic. They could not possibly have done anything differently to avoid this shooting.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
113
#76
Mental illness is as old as Cain and Abel.
Cain's killing of Abel had nothing at all to do with "mental illness":

I John chapter 3

[11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
[12] Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,256
733
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#77
Right, this is why I asked them to explain. I thought the same thing.
SMH

I mean, those who believe abortion should not be allowed because life is sacred. (Which I agree with)

AND THEN GO ON to tell that life that unless it has the mind, skills, and resources of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, it's not entitled to a home that is more than a tent, food that is more than Ramen noodles, healthcare that is more than a band aid, and security that is more than having your own gun to shoot back with.


Which I - and God - don't agree with.

How much better do you think the mental health in this country would be if people didn't have to work 80 hours a week at 3 different jobs to just barely scrape by?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
113
#78
actually yes it did,

the shooter of sandy Hook:

sometime before 9:30 a.m. EST on Friday, December 14, 2012, Lanza shot and killed his mother Nancy Lanza, aged 52, with a .22-caliber Savage Mark II rifle at their Newtown home. Investigators later found her body clad in pajamas, in her bed, with four gunshot wounds to her head. Lanza then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School in his mother's car.

You do not know what you are talking about.
three out of four of the last school shootings involved all or many of the things I listed.

Sandy hook,
Boulder
parkland
and this one
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
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#79
Lanza was not an elementary school kid. He was 20 years old. He was a college student. How could any referral from an elementary school 10 years earlier have been relevant?

My point is not that there haven't been school shootings, anyone who interpreted that from what I wrote would have to have been willfully attempting to distort the meaning. My point is that it wasn't an elementary school kid in Sandy Hook that got angry and that the teachers could have identified. Same thing in Texas.

The Columbine shooting was a good example of an angry student shooting up the school, but nationwide schools adjusted to deal with bullying as a result of that shooting.

As a teacher I attended multiple trainings on a yearly basis on how to deal with bullying, stamp out bullying, and help kids who are being bullied.

Blaming the Sandy Hook elementary school for the shooting or this elementary school in Texas is idiotic. They could not possibly have done anything differently to avoid this shooting.
never mind you clearly are not able to understand Shooter was 18 he was angry he did not graduate. He killed his grandmother
Sandy hook was 20, he was angry and killed his mother went to her school, and shot her classroom students. SMH
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,665
6,725
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#80
three out of four of the last school shootings involved all or many of the things I listed.

Sandy hook,
Boulder
parkland
and this one
Sandy Hook -- Lanza was a 20 year old college student. Please explain how the Sandy Hook Elementary school could have prevented this by "not hiding information about him".

Boulder (Columbine?) -- the shooting was from students who had been bullied. As a result of this shooting nationwide campaign to address and deal with bullying in schools was rolled out. I attended multiple trainings (Professional development and school meetings) every year discussing what we were doing. It was very high priority ever since the Boulder shooting.

Parkland -- Nikolas Cruz was expelled from the school the previous year. We still don't know why, but that means he must have done something very serious that the school dealt with in a very serious way (extremely difficult to get expelled these days from a public high school) and whatever he did was not criminal and was never in a public court. Again, you don't tell us what more a school is supposed to do. Since we don't know why he was expelled or anything more at this point it is baseless to assume that the "hidden information" is the key since we don't know what it is. By the way, he was 16 when he was expelled. Do 16 year olds have the right to privacy? Can they sue if you destroy their reputation? Just to put this into perspective, 2,600,000 students get expelled every year. So yes, perhaps 1 out of 10 million will come back to attack the school in some way. But you want to slander all 10 million? What exactly will that accomplish? Now perhaps 10 will be angry enough to come back to shoot up the school?