Gen 18:23

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Aug 2, 2021
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#21
To be delivered from the wrath which is to come....before hand.
The second coming is the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath.
Please explain your view of the bridegroom title that has been given to JESUS. This i only found in the new testament.
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord."
Jeremiah 31:31
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#22
There is a parallel between Lot, Noah, Enoch, and Methuselah being taken out of or away from divine judgments and the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.
These are not parallels of 'pre-trib' rapture.

Here are the NT parallels of OT Enoch, Lot and Methuselah

Enoch is a parallel/epiphany of Christ = everyone would do well to understand this.

Lot, the fallen angels and today's rebellion is the parallel in the NT writings = 2 Peter 2:4-11

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Methuselah died before the flood and the parallel is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#23
None of this changes the fact that both deliverance and judgment came on the same exact day in both instances.
understood ... my point was that in both the flood and the judgment of Sodom/Gomorrha, God gave warning to the believers. the unbelievers were completely unprepared.

Jesus told his disciples the signs to look for after they asked Him when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Matt 24:3). He told them some signs which He indicated were the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:8). He told them about the abomination of desolation and then shall be great tribulation. Jesus then said when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors (Matt 24:33).

We see what is going on in the world now and we can either be fearful because we are not watchful ... or we can be at peace because we know that God already told us what would happen, that all is occurring under His watchful eye and He is still in control of His creation ... even though it may appear that all hell is breaking loose. God even told us about the wrath of satan ... for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (Rev 12:12).


My knowing Scripture and placing my faith in God to watch over me does not make what I see going on in the world any less disgusting than it is. However, I am at peace knowing that our salvation is nearer than when we believed.
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Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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#24
understood ... my point was that in both the flood and the judgment of Sodom/Gomorrha, God gave warning to the believers. the unbelievers were completely unprepared.
Are you saying that the unbelievers weren't warned in the days of Noah before the flood, or are you saying that they simply weren't prepared because they didn't take heed to the warnings?

If you're saying that they weren't warned, then I vehemently disagree.

For one thing, God's Spirit strove with men during the 120 years that it took to make the ark, and Peter referred to that timeframe as "when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing".

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. " (Genesis 6:3)

"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. " (I Peter 3:20)

Why was God so "longsuffering"?

It seems to me that he was longsuffering in that he was giving the people ample time to repent.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (II Peter 3:9)

Peter also said that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, so there's that to consider as well.

"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;" (II Peter 2:5)

I think that we can safely assume that Noah's preaching included an explanation as to exactly why he was building the ark, so there's that probability to consider as well.

Jesus told his disciples the signs to look for after they asked Him when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Matt 24:3). He told them some signs which He indicated were the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:8). He told them about the abomination of desolation and then shall be great tribulation. Jesus then said when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors (Matt 24:33).
We see what is going on in the world now and we can either be fearful because we are not watchful ... or we can be at peace because we know that God already told us what would happen, that all is occurring under His watchful eye and He is still in control of His creation ... even though it may appear that all hell is breaking loose. God even told us about the wrath of satan ... for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (Rev 12:12).

My knowing Scripture and placing my faith in God to watch over me does not make what I see going on in the world any less disgusting than it is. However, I am at peace knowing that our salvation is nearer than when we believed..
Yes, and...?

Are you suggesting that unbelievers aren't aware of these prophesied signs as well?

I know that many of them are because I've warned many of them of exactly these things myself.

I mean, what makes one an "unbeliever" anyway?

Isn't it not believing what you've been told or forewarned of?

Anyhow, like you said, as I watch what is transpiring in the world today (and in the past), I am not fearful because I recognize that everything is going down exactly as God foretold it would. I am, however, fearful for those who aren't prepared for the same, and that is why I've spent so much time seeking to warn them over the years.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#25
There is no interval between the rapture and the second coming as they are one and the same event.
That would involve some serious absurdity (and God does not deal in absurdities).
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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#26
That would involve some serious absurdity (and God does not deal in absurdities).
Well, you're right about one thing:

God does not deal in absurdities.

With such being the case, you should renounce your notion that the rapture and the second coming of Christ are separate events.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#27
Are you saying that the unbelievers weren't warned in the days of Noah before the flood, or are you saying that they simply weren't prepared because they didn't take heed to the warnings?
I merely pointed out that at the time of the flood, God told Noah before the rain started and God told Abraham that He was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrha.

I know Noah had 120 years in which to build the ark (during which time he preached righteousness) and 7 days warning before the rain started.

I do not know the timeframe between when God told Abraham and when the fire and brimstone fell on Sodom/Gomorrha. I know the angels told Lot and Lot told his sons in law and his wife and daughters. So Lot was given minimal notice.

However, even before Noah there was Enoch who warned Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints (Jude 1:14). God has always given warning.




Live4Him3 said:
If you're saying that they weren't warned, then I vehemently disagree.

For one thing, God's Spirit strove with men during the 120 years that it took to make the ark, and Peter referred to that timeframe as "when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing".
Yes, in agreement concerning God's Spirit striving with mankind. And I believe God's Spirit continues to strive with unbelieving mankind in our day and time, as well as throughout all of past history, and will continue in the future. The Holy Spirit also works within the believer to teach and bring God's Word to remembrance.

I also believe Noah warned all he could reach concerning the coming flood.

However, Noah was specifically told by God that the rain would start in 7 days (Gen 7:4). I do not see that God told anyone else. And I am uncertain whether Noah had any time to warn others as he probably took that 7 days to get himself, his wife, his sons and their wives packed up, and into the ark in the timeframe God had given.




Live4Him3 said:
Peter also said that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, so there's that to consider as well.
My point was that the Lord spoke directly to Noah and to Abraham. Were these the only believers at that given time? Lot was a believer, although he was entangled with the affairs of this life.

Noah? yes, he was a preacher of righteousness. He was building the ark ... did folks ask him about that and he explained to them?

As far as Abraham? Abraham was still in the plains of Mamre the morning after God's judgment, so Abraham did not tell the folks of Sodom/Gomorrah. The angels told only Lot and Lot told his sons in law. Did Lot tell others? I do not know.




Live4Him3 said:
Are you suggesting that unbelievers aren't aware of these prophesied signs as well?

I know that many of them are because I've warned many of them of exactly these things myself.

I mean, what makes one an "unbeliever" anyway?

Isn't it not believing what you've been told or forewarned of?
In our day and time, we have the written Scriptures and it is our (the believers') privilege and responsibility to speak God's Word to others.

Back in the days of the flood and the judgment on Sodom/Gomorrha, God spoke directly to Noah and Abraham and it was their privilege/responsibility to preach to others. We know that Lot was a righteous man (2 Peter 2:8) who sat in the gate of the city. Did Lot preach at the gate? If so, not one citizen in the city believed.

God uses the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Cor 1:21). What must be believed, first and foremost, is the gospel of Christ.




Live4Him3 said:
Anyhow, like you said, as I watch what is transpiring in the world today (and in the past), I am not fearful because I recognize that everything is going down exactly as God foretold it would. I am, however, fearful for those who aren't prepared for the same, and that is why I've spent so much time seeking to warn them over the years.
yes. and, again, the gospel is first and foremost ... For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom 1:16).
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