Adam was not deceived but chose to eat of the forbidden tree. Why?

[Lanolin]

Adam had no brain...it sure looks like idiot behaviour

You know how a monkey sees and monkey does?
Its like that with Adam. He saw Eve eating the fruit, she gave to him, he ate it

He didnt even question or say anything whether it was the forbidden fruit or not. He just ate it.

Its like giving sweets to a child. They'll just put it in their mouth without questioning how much artificial flavour, colour and sugar is actually IN this?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I've learned there is a school of thought that goes something like this: since Adam was not deceived, he chose death for Eve's sake...

But however romantic this seems to me, for some reason I've found it difficult to fully accept it as anything more than speculation as to why he would, apparently, chose death if he didn't believe what the serpent said, 'surely, you will not die...'

Since the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of Scripture from beginning (Genesis) to end (Revelation), and OT Scripture is full of foreshadows, something we might want to think about is how is Adam a foreshadow of Christ?

As far as Adam choosing to join Eve in death, was Adam following what is written in Genesis 2:24:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Did Adam choose to leave his Father in order to cleave to his wife and be one flesh with her?


I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Adam had gone to Father with this dilemma he faced after Eve ate and before he ate. Rather than eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, what if Adam had just gone to God and asked God what should he do.

Instead, Adam hearkened unto the voice of his wife and ate of the tree (Gen 3:16).
.

 

[posthuman]

Their knowing good and evil was a direct
result of eating from the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

that is what Satan said.
God didn't.

God did say of **at least** Adam that he had become like "Us" knowing good and evil.
God did not say how that came to pass.

so the question would be, was Satan lying?
what are the odds of that lol

 

[posthuman]

No it doesn't. It's because of the grammar construction that it's this way.
Hebrew doesn't work like English. You are putting modern westernized mindset again on Ancient Near Eastern literature whose grammar mechanics are completely different than the way you think.

have you checked or do you actually know this to be true?

let's have a look at 1 Samuel 4:17 for example:



hmm wow
looks like in Hebrew there's a little pronoun "who" there when you want to talk about people "who were with him"

weird how God doesn't use the same construction in Genesis 3:6 huh
probably coincidence. i bet God does a lot of things for no reason at all, huh?
He's not very good with words, or very deliberate at all?










you can object all you want and reject all the knowledge you want for the sake of your opinions.
but the facts are that Genesis 3:6 literally says "she gave to her husband with her" and that "with" is not a word that necessarily refers to prolonged proximal location. it in fact usually doesn't.

Genesis 3:6 does not say Adam was with his wife watching her be murdered and never lifted a finger.
nothing in the Bible says Adam hated her so much he used her as a guinea pig for deadly poison he knew full well was deadly poison, or that he handed her over to Satan to be destroyed.

 

[Magenta]

that is what Satan said.
God didn't.

God did say of **at least** Adam that he had become like "Us" knowing good and evil.
God did not say how that came to pass.

so the question would be, was Satan lying?
what are the odds of that lol

If all Satan did was lie, nobody would believe him. So some say, any way, you know, the old "mix a little lie in with some
truth and voilà, you got 'em." Anyways, how could they not know evil as a result of disobeying God? That is what evil is.

So God says, don't eat of this tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they eat of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil any way, yet you say, their knowledge of good and evil did not come about that way?

They already knew good.

 

[posthuman]

If all Satan did was lie, nobody would believe him. So some say, any way, you know, the old "mix a little lie in with some
truth and voilà, you got 'em." Anyways, how could they not know evil as a result of disobeying God? That is what evil is.

So God says, don't eat of this tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they eat of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil any way, yet you say, their knowledge of good and evil did not come about that way?

They already knew good.

i'm saying that we do not "become like God" by committing sin, which is what Satan suggested.
and that we do not "become like God" by what we eat or drink, which is what Satan suggested.

does God know evil because He has committed it? of course not.
but this is Satan's implication to Woman: that God is withholding good from her, lying about the tree to prevent her from becoming like Him.

is it good to become like God, in the sense Adam did?
can becoming like God ever be a bad thing? is God good. ha!
does God indeed withhold goodness from them when they are innocent, like Satan says?
when God says Adam has become like Him, is God saying something terrible has happened?
is this God going, oh no, they've sinned, they ate the tree of death, they've become like Me?
or is God approving something Adam has done?

we do not yet know what it is we shall be, but we shall be like Him --
is that good or is that evil?
is being like Him something God is trying to prevent or to accomplish?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If all Satan did was lie, nobody would believe him. So some say, any way, you know, the old "mix a little lie in with some
truth and voilà, you got 'em." Anyways, how could they not know evil as a result of disobeying God? That is what evil is.

So God says, don't eat of this tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they eat of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil any way, yet you say, their knowledge of good and evil did not come about that way?

They already knew good.

One thing I find interesting is how satan approached Eve ... "did God really say?" which resulted in Eve pondering/questioning God's Word.

satan did the same thing to Jesus when He was led into the wilderness to be tempted "If thou be the Son of God" as if Jesus would question that (and as if we would forget what we just read the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased).

satan does the same thing to us. he hasn't changed his tactics ... and we're just as foolish today as back in Genesis ... fallin' for satan's lies ...
.

 

[posthuman]

they eat of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil any way, yet you say, their knowledge of good and evil did not come about that way?

i say they did not suddenly gain awareness of morality by eating from the tree.
there are two trees, one gives life and the other, death.
they ate from the tree that gives death. when they did, as you said, they had already known good - not just conscious understanding of the concept of good, but experiencing and doing and receiving good.
when they ate from the tree about which they were commanded not to eat, they didn't just 'suddenly gain the concept of not-good'
they experienced, performed, and received evil. they received immediately in themselves the wages of sin: dying, they died.

we're going to have people in here soon ((some have already showed up)) who are going to preach to us that 'knowledge' of evil means they had sex with the serpent. that's clearly ridiculous, unfounded and ultimately blasphemous, but they have the point that 'knowing' evil in this context is more than simply having conceptual awareness and comprehension.
clearly Adam was aware of & comprehended the concept of sin. he knew what he was about to do was wrong, when he took the fruit from his wife. that's part of being not deceived. if he's a mindless idiot we can't speak in terms of deceived/undeceived. if he doesn't know his right hand from his left how can God judge him for picking something up with the wrong hand? but all men are "without excuse" because what can be known about God - e.g. His goodness as contrasted with wickedness - is clearly seen.

therefore i maintain Adam has every consciousness, will, comprehension and aptitude to make fully-aware moral choices.

what i would say about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is that by eating it they more than just 'understood' what doing evil meant; they lived it. and by living it, they died, because that is the wages of sin.

but when God says they have become like Him, knowing good and evil, does that mean God 'understands' evil because God has committed evil? of course not. His every thought is holy and righteous.
but God also knows intimately and fully every thought of every living being -- nothing is hidden from Him. so He knows all of Satan's thoughts and knows Satan's heart. better than Satan knows his own heart!
i would say this is how Adam became "like" God, knowing good and evil. God absolutely 100% comprehends every evil thought, why it is evil and what it feels like and how evil justifies itself. God did not have to 'become human in order to finally comprehend what it's actually like to be one' -- He became human to redeem humanity.
but Adam cannot be omniscience. so Adam became 'like' omniscience with respect to being "like" God, in that Adam acquired intimate knowledge of sin and wickedness by committing it.

Satan convinced Woman this was wisdom God was hiding from her. but it was death and judgement, that God was protecting her from with His command.
this is what the tree did to them, IMO: it revealed sin in the flesh and condemned it. just like The Law.
they became guilty by disobedience, and the tree put them to death for it. just like The Law.
so what God said about the tree is that they would become 'dying, you shall die' in the day they ate.

being in a irrevocable state of dying unto death is not "like God"
being righteously condemned for our sin is not "like God"
being sinful and disobedient is not "like God"
having full, intimate knowledge of good and of evil is like God - not because God does evil, but because God knows all things, fully.

 

[posthuman]

did God create man to be an idiot devoid of knowledge and full of foolishness?
i say, no.

i say, Adam was/is incredibly wise. Eve was/is incredibly wise.

that's why it's important we know the serpent is more cunning than any other beast. ((Genesis 3:1))

he has to be to succeed at murdering Woman.
there is no other reason for God to provide that detail about the serpent's cunningness, except that Adam and Eve were certainly not mindless ignorant morons.

the way so many people in this thread and all over Christendom describe them, a simple ant could have deceived them and convinced them to do anything!
is that really our view of how God desired humankind to be? the "very good" state of His creation, untainted with sin?
mindless, ignorant idiots? that's our ideal state?
wow.

but God took pains to tell us that Satan was full of wisdom, more cunning and crafty than any other beast.
why ?
because it explains how he is able to murder Woman and trap Adam into a decision that gets himself dead too.
clear implication: neither Adam nor Eve are idiots. it takes an extraordinary genius to tempt them into sin.

clear implication of that: the events in Genesis 3 are not as simple as they appear at face value and are typically taught.

 

[JohnDB]

did God create man to be an idiot devoid of knowledge and full of foolishness?
i say, no.

i say, Adam was/is incredibly wise. Eve was/is incredibly wise.

that's why it's important we know the serpent is more cunning than any other beast. ((Genesis 3:1))

he has to be to succeed at murdering Woman.
there is no other reason for God to provide that detail about the serpent's cunningness, except that Adam and Eve were certainly not mindless ignorant morons.

the way so many people in this thread and all over Christendom describe them, a simple ant could have deceived them and convinced them to do anything!
is that really our view of how God desired humankind to be? the "very good" state of His creation, untainted with sin?
mindless, ignorant idiots? that's our ideal state?
wow.

but God took pains to tell us that Satan was full of wisdom, more cunning and crafty than any other beast.
why ?
because it explains how he is able to murder Woman and trap Adam into a decision that gets himself dead too.
clear implication: neither Adam nor Eve are idiots. it takes an extraordinary genius to tempt them into sin.

clear implication of that: the events in Genesis 3 are not as simple as they appear at face value and are typically taught.

And so you are teaching that we are powerless against Satan's wisdom....

Women are evil and dumber than all men.

Yeah......I'm not buying it.

 

[JohnDB]

did God create man to be an idiot devoid of knowledge and full of foolishness?
i say, no.

i say, Adam was/is incredibly wise. Eve was/is incredibly wise.

that's why it's important we know the serpent is more cunning than any other beast. ((Genesis 3:1))

he has to be to succeed at murdering Woman.
there is no other reason for God to provide that detail about the serpent's cunningness, except that Adam and Eve were certainly not mindless ignorant morons.

the way so many people in this thread and all over Christendom describe them, a simple ant could have deceived them and convinced them to do anything!
is that really our view of how God desired humankind to be? the "very good" state of His creation, untainted with sin?
mindless, ignorant idiots? that's our ideal state?
wow.

but God took pains to tell us that Satan was full of wisdom, more cunning and crafty than any other beast.
why ?
because it explains how he is able to murder Woman and trap Adam into a decision that gets himself dead too.
clear implication: neither Adam nor Eve are idiots. it takes an extraordinary genius to tempt them into sin.

clear implication of that: the events in Genesis 3 are not as simple as they appear at face value and are typically taught.

God's laws are always just arbitrary commands we are expected to follow....another result of what you are preaching.

Not buying this garbage either.

 

[posthuman]

Women are evil

God's laws are always just arbitrary commands we are expected to follow....

if that's what you think, you have not understood a word of what i've written.

IMO you are just being purposefully/pettily divisive because you didn't like the fact i opposed your views, with proofs.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

And so you are teaching that we are powerless against Satan's wisdom....

Without God ... yes, we are powerless. In our own wisdom ... yes, we are powerless.

Eve was deceived as she pondered the words of the devil.

When Jesus responded to the devil, He said it is written.

Eve responded by omitting words:

God: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat (Gen 2:16)

Eve: We may eat of the fruit of the trees (Gen 3:2)


Eve responded by adding and changing words (blue):

God: in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Gen 2:17)

Eve: Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die (Gen 3:3)

Eve added "neither shall ye touch it" and changed God's "thou shalt surely" to "lest".

Once we change God's Word, we have no foundation on which to stand ... just our faulty reasoning ...

In our day and time, we are instructed to put on the full armor of God so that we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil and withstand in the evil day. How many of us do not put on the full armor of God the moment we wake up?

Each piece is vital to us ... especially the praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.

Isn't it interesting that God tells us to put on the whole armor of God so we can pray always and watch with all perseverance and supplication for all fellow believers???
.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Because Adam was one with Eve.The serpent likes to corrupt Gods people by going for the blood.Which is what happen in the garden when Eve was deceived.She was the blood.adam was the water.As time went on,man became more corrupted and became abominations.So God flooded the earth.

 

[JohnDB]

if that's what you think, you have not understood a word of what i've written.

IMO you are just being purposefully/pettily divisive because you didn't like the fact i opposed your views, with proofs.

No....
You are drawing baseless conclusions in order to go beyond what is written and expecting for everyone to herald your teachings which deliberately are opposed to other scriptural truths....

You are every bit the same as the serpent in the garden.

 

[Magenta]

i'm saying that we do not "become like God" by committing sin, which is what Satan suggested.

I don't see that Satan said they would become like God to know good and evil. And God said that happened.

 

[posthuman]

I don't see that Satan said they would become like God to know good and evil. And God said that happened.

Satan said to Woman it would come about by eating the forbidden fruit; i.e. rebelling against God; i.e. sinning

God didn't say it would happen, and didn't specifically say how it happened - but the time He chose to say it was when Adam changed Woman's name to Eve: at that point God gave them new coverings, and said they ((or potentially Adam)) had become like Him, knowing good and evil.

i do not know that what Satan meant by 'knowing good and evil' or 'becoming like God' are the same things that God means by the same phrases.
i have to keep in mind that what Satan is doing is trying to murder Adam's wife, trap Adam, and defame God. that his native language is lies, and that he is more cunning than any beast.

 

[Magenta]

Satan said to Woman it would come about by eating the forbidden fruit; i.e. rebelling against God; i.e. sinning

God didn't say it would happen, and didn't specifically say how it happened - but the time He chose to say it was when Adam changed Woman's name to Eve: at that point God gave them new coverings, and said they ((or potentially Adam)) had become like Him, knowing good and evil.

i do not know that what Satan meant by 'knowing good and evil' or 'becoming like God' are the same things that God means by the same phrases.
i have to keep in mind that what Satan is doing is trying to murder Adam's wife, trap Adam, and defame God. that his native language is lies, and that he is more cunning than any beast.

It may be necessary to define "knowing good and evil." I think we agree on many points around this, for
instance, it not being a head knowledge type of thing, but experiential. Just as knowing God was for them...

The knowledge of good was something they already possessed. We agree

When they ate of the forbidden tree, their eyes were opened, and they realized they were naked.

I believe they saw themselves as they were, that is, no longer covered by the grace God.

They knew evil. They had directly gone against what God had said to Adam.

The coverings they made for themselves were insufficient.

God made coverings for them, again an act of grace.

And a prefiguring of Christ's coming to redeem mankind.

Which God had known all along was going to be necessary. First comes the natural, then the Spiritual

 

[Lanolin]

seems to me both Adam and Eve were a bit like Dumb and Dumber

eating Smarties does not make you smart. But if someone told them thats what they do, even though its poison, Adam and Eve might have believed that.

People smoke cigarettes even while knowing that smoking kills your lungs. so what does this say about people who smoke? Maybe its just ROMANTIC lol

 

[Mem]

There is an implication in the Bible that women can be more easily deceived than males by Satan.
Because of this, and also because He created a male first, God has given the responsibility of leadership in marriage, and in the church, to men.

I wanted to revisit where it is "in the bible that women can be more easily deceived than males by Satan." I think most bible students are familiar with where this "implication" is but not all of us agree of the general suggestion. That is, I view the implication of that particular context to be an admonishment towards women to remember humility (aren't there wives that (think) they are or have to be always right?) when compelled with the urge to exercise their wifely authority over her husband in public, in this case speaking in terms of spiritual authority, as much as couples should keep any exercise of physically intimate authority of one another, physically, would be crude and prideful if not left confined to the home.
In other words, the use of Eve having been deceived is used and an example of the very real possibility that she could be wrong rather than that she is most certainly almost always wrong. And that very real possibility applies to males also, of course, although it is considered a 'vulnerability' that may be more difficult for males to admit.
Not to imply that anyone is an idiot but, I do sincerely hope that I expressed that thought succinctly enough for everyone to follow without too much difficulty...