Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Another verse came to mind, as I was reading this article: https://activechristianity.org/7-extraordinary-promises-for-those-who-overcome All 7 Promises, and 7 verses, are Amazing, and directly from Our Lord Jesus Christ in Revelation, but Promise 4 is clearest imho.

"The 4th extraordinary promise: Power over the nations, a rod of iron, and the morning star
“And he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations – ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ – as I also have received from my Father; and I will give him the morning star.” Revelation 2:26-28.

So, to receive these Promises, the Lord Himself says that we are to "keep His Works until the end", which seems to me to be very clear.

God Bless.

 

[Chester]

So you maintain your salvation through works?

No, I don't believe in OSAS - and thus I do not believe that I stay saved by my works - that is what I understand and hear from OSAS people. I believe that I was initially saved by my faith in Jesus Christ, and it is still my faith in Jesus Christ that causes me to be saved today.

Do I work? Well, yes and no. Oh, I use all my skills and aptitudes for the work of God's Kingdom, but it is really God who does the work in me (I am HIS workmanship).

 

[Magenta]

No, I don't believe in OSAS - and thus I do not believe that I stay saved by my works - that is
what I understand and hear from OSAS people. I believe that I was initially saved by my faith
in Jesus Christ, and it is still my faith in Jesus Christ that causes me to be saved today.

Do I work? Well, yes and no. Oh, I use all my skills and aptitudes for the work of
God's Kingdom, but it is really God who does the work in me (I am HIS workmanship).

Are you maintaining then, that those who are saved and believe
OSAS, do not have God working in them as you claim to?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Catholicism teaches people they can "add" to grace through their works. They have to keep doing good works because they can never have confidence they'll go to be with the Lord after death.

I've always wondered what the appeal is of a system that tells people they can never be sure. The only thing they have to combat this is purgatory. If a person ends up not going to heaven they at least won't go to hell. In purgatory they'll have another chance to acquire enough grace to make it.

Very sad.

 

[Chester]

Are you maintaining then, that those who are saved and believe
OSAS, do not have God working in them as you claim to?

No, Magenta, I am not saying that at all.

The work of God in a person's life is not dependent on their theological beliefs as such.
The work of God comes when a person has faith in Jesus Christ. Belief in OSAS or non-OSAS is not the basis of salvation.

But what I find incomprehensible is when someone finds that I do not accept the doctrine of OSAS, they immediately label me as maintaining my salvation by my works, and often then gently (or not so gently . . .) tell me how to get saved and know that I have eternal life!

I much prefer to simply base my salvation and my assurance on my faith in Jesus Christ today. I have made a decision to believe in Him in the past, I believe in Him today, and will keep on believing in Him because I know whom I have believed. Putting my assurance in OSAS would mean I need to be sure I was saved correctly and well at a point in time in the past. And then to many OSAS people the evidence of that point-in-time past conversion is that I live a good life of works. If I forsake good works, they will say my initial conversion was no good. Hence in their system I must maintain good works to stay saved. I refuse to live in such bondage.

On the other hand, I have found some who believe in OSAS on this forum whom I of course disagree with, but they are cordial and do not automatically conclude that I as a non-OSAS believer am automatically a "works maintainer" - I think most likely you fit into this group, though I do not know you that well. I sense Godly character and virtue in your responses, though.

 

[Grandpa]

“In Christ”
“In Him”
“In the beloved”

Was Saul (Paul) in Christ before the foundation of the world when he was murdering Christians with a clean conscience? When was Paul in Christ?

Are you still making up stuff in your head to discredit what scripture says?

Its one way to hold on tighter to your wishes instead of Truth.

We have ALOT of that going around right now.

People get indignant and upset when Truth is presented as it goes against what they wish the facts were.



Wouldn't you rather gain Knowledge and Wisdom? Its funny that you bring up Paul. Where was his "choice" to believe the gospel? It was more of a irresistible Grace situation, right? Like he was chosen and not the one doing the choosing.

 

[Snacks]

No, I don't believe in OSAS - and thus I do not believe that I stay saved by my works - that is what I understand and hear from OSAS people. I believe that I was initially saved by my faith in Jesus Christ, and it is still my faith in Jesus Christ that causes me to be saved today.

Do I work? Well, yes and no. Oh, I use all my skills and aptitudes for the work of God's Kingdom, but it is really God who does the work in me (I am HIS workmanship).

You maintain your own salvation. That’s not grace. But I rejoice that you have faith at least for now in Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Snacks said:
So you maintain your salvation through works?

No, I don't believe in OSAS - and thus I do not believe that I stay saved by my works - that is what I understand and hear from OSAS people. I believe that I was initially saved by my faith in Jesus Christ, and it is still my faith in Jesus Christ that causes me to be saved today.

So you believe that it is by your own faith that saves you?? That would be salvation by self.

The Bible clearly teaches that it is God who saves those who believe.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

What do you think Jesus meant in John 10:28 when He said: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The only question is this: WHEN does Jesus give the gift of eternal life?

John 5:24 tells us, also clearly.

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

The bold words are all in the present tense. That means WHEN a perosn hears and believes, they POSSESS (has) eternal life.

So, John 10:28 means that from the MOMENT a person believes, they shall never perish.

That is the clearest statement of eternal security in the Bible.

Those given eternal life shall never perish.

Eternal life is given WHEN a person believes.

 

[BroTan]

You are adding works (human effort) to salvation.

The Holy Spirit seals the believer, which is a GUARANTEE of our inheritance as God's possession. Eph 1:13,14.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway.

 

[Runningman]

Are you still making up stuff in your head to discredit what scripture says?

Its one way to hold on tighter to your wishes instead of Truth.

We have ALOT of that going around right now.

People get indignant and upset when Truth is presented as it goes against what they wish the facts were.



Wouldn't you rather gain Knowledge and Wisdom? Its funny that you bring up Paul. Where was his "choice" to believe the gospel? It was more of a irresistible Grace situation, right? Like he was chosen and not the one doing the choosing.

Ah you don’t have an answer to the questions I asked. You post scripture but can’t explain the tough questions about it because you don’t really know what you’re talking about do you.

 

[HeIsHere]

Ah you don’t have an answer to the questions I asked. You post scripture but can’t explain the tough questions about it because you don’t really know what you’re talking about do you.

Paul chose obedience, (Paul tells King Agrippa) so then grace was not irresistible for which @Grandpa is trying to make the case.

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.”
Acts 26:19-20

Seems as though even Paul had a choice to make.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Ah you don’t have an answer to the questions I asked. You post scripture but can’t explain the tough questions about it because you don’t really know what you’re talking about do you.

That's called "throwing the book at you", 'cause when all they have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and they use and abuse that hammer to whack you over and over again until they think that they have beaten you into the ground. Talking to them is really frustrating, you know, it's like banging your head on a wall, no dynamics, no back and forth interaction, and essentially no spirit that carries you to anywhere else that you haven't already explored. If they really understood what they're quoting, they would've come up with a lot of stuffs from all kinds of different smart angles, like Jesus said, flowing out like living water. It could be some biblical or historical references, some personal experience, some Greek etymology, some analysis of the context, some inspiring takeaway lessons, etc. But nope, since they've got nothing, all they can do is repeat the same verses and same talking points and perhaps with slightly different wording.

 

[Runningman]

That's called "throwing the book at you", 'cause when all they have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and they use and abuse that hammer to whack you over and over again until they think that they have beaten you into the ground. Talking to them is really frustrating, you know, it's like banging your head on a wall, no dynamics, no back and forth interaction, and essentially no spirit that carries you to anywhere else that you haven't already explored. If they really understood what they're quoting, they would've come up with a lot of stuffs from all kinds of different smart angles, like Jesus said, flowing out like living water. It could be some biblical or historical references, some personal experience, some Greek etymology, some analysis of the context, some inspiring takeaway lessons, etc. But nope, since they've got nothing, all they can do is repeat the same verses and same talking points and perhaps with slightly different wording.

I mean the Bible does say predestination so I can’t shy away from that. I’m asking what that means exactly since clearly there is a choice or a strong illusion of a choice. Maybe predestination is a bit like a prophecy?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I mean the Bible does say predestination so I can’t shy away from that. I’m asking what that means exactly since clearly there is a choice or a strong illusion of a choice. Maybe predestination is a bit like a prophecy?

Hmm, the way I see it, there're destinies for nations, ethnicities, institutions, and all the heavens and the earth, and then there're destinies for the individuals, theirs are NOT. You can see that in the letters to the seven churches, make no mistake that unlike Paul's epistles, those are more like report cards of their job review, their rise and fall are sealed, but the INDIVIDUALS from those churches have a choice, therefore, "HE who has an ear, let HIM hear!" Also, another example, as a historic factoid, the early Christians in Judea listened to Jesus's warning in the Olivet Discourse, when the Roman Army approached in 70AD, they ran to the mountains and survived.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway.

To summarize, salvation is a gift, which by definition is NOT earned.

Eternal reward is earned. You misunderstand the verses on reward as being about salvation.

 

[Grandpa]

Ah you don’t have an answer to the questions I asked. You post scripture but can’t explain the tough questions about it because you don’t really know what you’re talking about do you.

Right...

I can explain your lack of reading and comprehension skills.

But you probably do this purposely in order to promote your wishes over actual scripture.

The only one that can put Truth over wishes is you.

 

[Chester]

You maintain your own salvation. That’s not grace. But I rejoice that you have faith at least for now in Jesus Christ.

The person who "maintains their own salvation" will go to hell. It is impossible to get to heaven on your own effort or works.

 

[Snacks]

The person who "maintains their own salvation" will go to hell. It is impossible to get to heaven on your own effort or works.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. Do you believe someone who is saved today by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, can somehow lose their salvation and not be saved tomorrow or next year or 100 years from now? If so, how?

 

[Runningman]

Right...

I can explain your lack of reading and comprehension skills.

But you probably do this purposely in order to promote your wishes over actual scripture.

The only one that can put Truth over wishes is you.

Actually I honestly just wanted you to answer my question about predestination because I didn’t understand it. This isn’t Sunday school. If you can’t answer a tough question then you quite frankly have no idea what you’re talking about and shouldn’t be trying to teach it. Don’t worry I’ll find my own answers since at this point I really don’t care what your answer is whether fact or fiction.

 

[Grandpa]

Actually I honestly just wanted you to answer my question about predestination because I didn’t understand it. This isn’t Sunday school. If you can’t answer a tough question then you quite frankly have no idea what you’re talking about and shouldn’t be trying to teach it. Don’t worry I’ll find my own answers since at this point I really don’t care what your answer is whether fact or fiction.

That's what I've been saying the whole time.

All of your responses reflect that.