What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?

[Shilohsfoal]

Daniel wasn't given as much info as John was given and saw. Daniel didn't have to say there were 1000 years apart. Revelation makes that clear. I take my understanding of end times from John and Revelation WAY before any OT prophet.


Michael stands up. (then) there will be a time of distress. (then) your people will be delivered (at the Second Advent). (then) there will be the FIRST resurrection (Rev 20:5) of believers only. The SECOND resurrection will be for all the unbelievers in order to appear before the GWT judgment and then being cast into the lake of fire.

My view is consistent with all of Scripture.


See above. John had WAY MORE info that Daniel did.


The "at that time" refers to Michael standing up. Then follows the Tribulation, and then follows the Second Advent, with the resurrection of the saved.


I've just shown you the consistency of what Daniel meant and it ALIGNS with what John wrote. The way you are taking Daniel creates a conflict with what John wrote.

How do you reconcile your conflict?

Read very carefully what Jesus says in these verses and tell me if he is speaking of an u believer or a servant of Jesus christ doing wrong.
Keep in mind. Jesus says he is a servant, not an unbeliever.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-48.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-49.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-50.htm

 

[FreeGrace2]

The people daniel wrote about being having been asleep in the dust were not unbelievers.

I agree with this because ALL believers will be resurrected in the FIRST of TWO resurrections, and that will be when Jesus Christ returns to earth.

They are all believers including those who rise to everlasting shame and contempt.

Nope. Receiving a glorified body in the resurrection cannot include "rising to everlasting shame and contempt". You have a very weird view of life in eternity for some believers.

The phrase "rise to everlasting shame and contempt" refers to unbeliever.

Because you can not comprehend this, you decide they must be unbelievers.

Quite the opposite. I do comprehend this very well. I don't decide what to believe. I read the Bible and believe what is written.

Do you believe there will be a single resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved? If not, you need to read Acts 24:15.

You decide Daniel must be talking about some different resurection that takes place some other time.

Since there will be TWO resurrections total, it's very clear. There will be a "different resurrection that takes place some other time".

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

These are the TWO resurrections total. The red refers to all the dead, which will occur AFTER the Millennial reign. The blue refers to the believer's resurrection, which includes the trib martyrs from v.4.

Given "this is the first resurrection" what do you think the next resurrection is about?

Daniel never stated the unbelievers would rise nor does revelation. Those are your words.

Daniel didn't "have to" state anything about unbelievers. His focus was on Jews only.

"my words"??? Really? Then you don't really know much Scriptue.

Take a learn:

John 5-
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

The phrase "for a time is coming when..." doesn't mean everyone at once will come out of their graves. Keep reading.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. See? One for the saved and one for the unsaved. Keep reading.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse proves that ALL believers (those who belong to Him" will be resurrected at the same time. That time is at the end of the Trib at the Second Advent when Jesus comes back.

Put all this with Rev 20:4,5 and you'll get the whole picture. Two resurrections, one for the saved, which will be at the Second Advent, and one for the unsaved, which will be 1,000 years later at the GWT judgment, when they will be condemned.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Read very carefully what Jesus says in these verses and tell me if he is speaking of an u believer or a servant of Jesus christ doing wrong.
Keep in mind. Jesus says he is a servant, not an unbeliever.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-48.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-49.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-50.htm

Matt 24:48-50
48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’
49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.
50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

I don't ever use parables to form my theology or any doctrine, due to the actual purpose of parables in the first place.

However, Jesus WAS speaking of a believer. He would never give a parable about an unbeliever being a servant of God.

So, what you you think this parable teaches? Keep in mind that Jesus didn't explain this one, so whatever your opinion is, doesn't matter because none of us knows what Jesus meant. Only the parable teller knows what his point is.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I agree with this because ALL believers will be resurrected in the FIRST of TWO resurrections, and that will be when Jesus Christ returns to earth.


Nope. Receiving a glorified body in the resurrection cannot include "rising to everlasting shame and contempt". You have a very weird view of life in eternity for some believers.

The phrase "rise to everlasting shame and contempt" refers to unbeliever.


Quite the opposite. I do comprehend this very well. I don't decide what to believe. I read the Bible and believe what is written.

Do you believe there will be a single resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved? If not, you need to read Acts 24:15.


Since there will be TWO resurrections total, it's very clear. There will be a "different resurrection that takes place some other time".

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

These are the TWO resurrections total. The red refers to all the dead, which will occur AFTER the Millennial reign. The blue refers to the believer's resurrection, which includes the trib martyrs from v.4.

Given "this is the first resurrection" what do you think the next resurrection is about?


Daniel didn't "have to" state anything about unbelievers. His focus was on Jews only.

"my words"??? Really? Then you don't really know much Scriptue.

Take a learn:

John 5-
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

The phrase "for a time is coming when..." doesn't mean everyone at once will come out of their graves. Keep reading.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. See? One for the saved and one for the unsaved. Keep reading.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse proves that ALL believers (those who belong to Him" will be resurrected at the same time. That time is at the end of the Trib at the Second Advent when Jesus comes back.

Put all this with Rev 20:4,5 and you'll get the whole picture. Two resurrections, one for the saved, which will be at the Second Advent, and one for the unsaved, which will be 1,000 years later at the GWT judgment, when they will be condemned.

Daniel never said those who rise to shame and everlasting contempt recieve glorified bodies.
For some reason you believe everyone who is raised at the time of Jesus coming recieves glorified bodies which takes place at the sound of the last trump.
I know of some who will die, then be brought back to life, and then be removed from the earth before the sound of the last trump.
You must not have gotten that far yet. That would explain why you don't believe Daniel was writting about things that would take place at that time.

Its a shame you don't know who it's talking about.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Matt 24:48-50
48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’
49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.
50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

I don't ever use parables to form my theology or any doctrine, due to the actual purpose of parables in the first place.

However, Jesus WAS speaking of a believer. He would never give a parable about an unbeliever being a servant of God.

So, what you you think this parable teaches? Keep in mind that Jesus didn't explain this one, so whatever your opinion is, doesn't matter because none of us knows what Jesus meant. Only the parable teller knows what his point is.

Jesus spoke in parables so some people wouldn't understand.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-13.htm

Well, no need to say anything more. Whatever I say you wouldn't understand anyway.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Daniel never said those who rise to shame and everlasting contempt recieve glorified bodies.

I don't care what he didn't write. I KNOW what the Bible says elsewhere.

For some reason you believe everyone who is raised at the time of Jesus coming recieves glorified bodies which takes place at the sound of the last trump.

This highly suggests that you don't believe 1 Cor 15:23 then. Why?

I know of some who will die, then be brought back to life, and then be removed from the earth before the sound of the last trump.

Says who?

You must not have gotten that far yet.

Oh, quite the contrary. I've gotten ALL THE WAY through Revelation. A lot farther than focusing on Daniel, WAY BACK in the OT.

would explain why you don't believe Daniel was writting about things that would take place at that time.

My explanation refutes your misunderstanding of my understanding.

Its a shame you don't know who it's talking about.

It's a shame that you haven't been able to follow what I've posted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus spoke in parables so some people wouldn't understand.

There you go.

Well, no need to say anything more. Whatever I say you wouldn't understand anyway.

You are free to say whatever you want. Doesn't matter.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I don't care what he didn't write. I KNOW what the Bible says elsewhere.


This highly suggests that you don't believe 1 Cor 15:23 then. Why?


Says who?


Oh, quite the contrary. I've gotten ALL THE WAY through Revelation. A lot farther than focusing on Daniel, WAY BACK in the OT.


My explanation refutes your misunderstanding of my understanding.


It's a shame that you haven't been able to follow what I've posted.

I understand you sware by Paul's writings even though Paul was not instructed to write or even say some of the things he did.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I understand you sware by Paul's writings even though Paul was not instructed to write or even say some of the things he did.

It seems you are clueless as to what is important. You are stuck on Daniel who didn't even know about the church age.

I swear by ALL Scripture. Unlike yourself.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It seems you are clueless as to what is important. You are stuck on Daniel who didn't even know about the church age.

I swear by ALL Scripture. Unlike yourself.

Daniel was writing about the church rising out of the dust long before you were even thought of.

I think it's pathetic that you feel you know more about Daniels prophecies than Daniel.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

FreeGrace2 said:
You have completely either misunderstood what I have posted, or you didn't even read any of it.

I HAVE said that the Trinity IS co-equal in ALL aspects. So your claim here is totally untrue. Apologies will be accepted.

What I did say is that the Holy Spirit isn't addressed as Lord in the Bible. That was my only point. If you know of a verse that does address the Spirit as Lord, then please share.

And you are a real "piece of work". I could NOT care less what you think of me. It is sad that you have shown NO fruit of the Spirit at all.


"mock"? Really? No, I was pointing out that your own words prove that you don't know the difrerence and you even said they they are the same. That isn't mocking. I was pointing out the truth that you don't know the difference, and there IS a huge difference.


Smokescreen ALERT!!! You have failed to explain anything. All you do is make FALSE charges about me "attacking" you, when the opposite has been true. You CAN'T explain the indwelling vs filling, you CAN'T explain what grieving/quenching is.


If I've "hit a nerve", why don't you sit down and meditate over it? Ask the Lord to reveal your inability to explain bibical words.


And here is a GREAT example of transference. I have given you verses. But you just admitted that I'm using them for EVIL. How pathetic is that?


I was looking for YOUR understanding of some biblical words, and you consistently FAILED to provide any understanding. Only whining.


Well, here it is. In black and white (on my computer, at least). You have admitted that your emotions have been getting in the way. So in essence, you ARE HYPER-SENSITIVE and take these posts PERSONALLY.

I don't. I give you truth from verses. You get all emotional about it. But sense you do, why don't you try to figure out what exactly makes you "feel bad"? Is it the FACT that you CAN'T explain the words I asked you to? Well, that SHOULD make you FEEL BAD.


lol. If you really did, you would have explained the biblical words a long time ago. All you've done is deflect, dodge, and whine about my questions. OH, and the FALSE charges that I use ad hominem. That's what you have been doing.


But you NEVER HAVE "come up" with ANYTHING. So stop claiming what you CAN do, and just DO it.


There you go again; your HYPER sensitive emotions are getting in the way again. Calm down and just focus on the Bible.


It seems you are very easily confused, from what you have posted. And the FACT that you CAN'T explain any of the biblical words.


Correct. There aren't ANY tricks up my sleeve. Anyone who follows this thread and our discussion has seen that I've been very straightforward with you. My questions are legit.


If you wouldn't take any of this personally, there wouldn't be any pain. Your pain is self-induced.


My questions are straightforward. Your hyper-sensitive emotions have been getting in the way.

The verses I've shared are part of what Paul called "the mind of Christ" in 1 Cor 2:16. So, if you really mean it when you say you will follow your Lord Jesus, then you need to DEAL with the verses I've shared and understand them. That's all my questions and requests have been for.


The Bible tells believers to NOT judge others. Are you aware of that? Because your comment here IS a judgment of me, and you have NO RIGHT because you have NO KNOWLEDGE of my intentions. All you've done is try to demonize me, which is what the communist LEFT has been doing to conservatives for a long time. You are just like THEM.


You do what ever you want. Your biggest problem is your HYPER-sensitivity. When someone asks you a question or an explanation of something, you get all bent out of shape and go on a tirade and accuse me of what you have been doing. Transference is what that is.

Man, you’re funny. Apparently your reading skill isn’t as superb as you think it is. Just because you make me feel bad doesn't mean it really works. Why would I lose any sleep over a few nasty words from a random internet troll? You ain't nothing but a gaslighter with a circular argument. "How to be filled with the Spirit?" "Stop quenching/grieving the Spirit!" "How to stop quenching/grieving the Spirit?" "Be filled with the Spirit!" And when I tried to explain a thing or two from the gospels and Acts, you just dismissed it, 'cause that's beneath you and irrelevant to you! You thought I'm in the middle getting dizzy and confused, while I'm actually standing in the outside watching you going round and round chasing your own tail. If there's really a difference between "indwelling" and "filling", then what's the difference between the "indwelling" in Acts 2:4 and "filling" in Acts 4:8? I asked that before, you just dodged and deflected, and you never gave an answer because you insisted that was just for Peter, not me - even though every believer is a member of the Body of Christ, and Jesus himself demonstrated that no one is greater than another by bowing down to wash the disciples' feet!

If you really had the Spirit, you should've known already, and you surely wouldn't behaved in this way with a closed mind so tightly sealed like an airlock. How I'm filled with the Spirit is exactly the same as how Peter was filled with the Spirit. If you're not interested at how Peter was filled, you're not interested at how I'm filled either 'cause come one, come all, Peter received the Spirit in the same way as everybody else in the crowd of pilgrims at Pentecost. You're getting personal at me first with vitriol, so I just give you a dose of your own medicine, 'cause there's no point of reasoning with an arrogant numb skull like you.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The concern I have is, that my personal ’terrible day of the Lord’ might be tomorrow. So, I’m wondering, if I die tomorrow, does my flask have enough oil in it to get me into the wedding feast, or will I be left outside in inconsolable grief and unending anguish?

I suspect Jesus would prefer me to focus on discussions that will help me keep my oil flask full, for when He calls ’times up‘ on my earthly life. Has anyone got any advice for me on how I can achieve that please?

First of all, a huge condemning issue among today's Christians is a misconception of the term SALVATION. What I've learned from most of y'all is that salvation is nothing more a life insurance policy, a ticket to heaven, or a bailout from hell. Is that all that is? Is that what God himself died for in the most painful, gruesome, humiliating way? If you wanna have blessed assurance, then you must be assured that you've already had salvation in THIS LIFE. Yes, you heard me right, not next life, but THIS LIFE. Our physical life in the flesh is a preview of the next life, it's a foretaste of what to come. So when you bring up the question about what is to come on your personal day to meet our Maker, ask yourself, has Jesus already set you free? Free from guilt? Shame? Addictions? Obsessions? Grudges? Troubles? All those emotional and psychological issues that have locked your soul in chains and shuckles, to which the only fix is rest in Christ? Has he buried all the demons from your past in the past and led you walk in the newness of life? Have you reached that blissful moment and savored that foretaste in THIS LIFE? I believe that at least is a SIGN of Christ's salvation for your next life. I hope this helps.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Man, you’re funny. Apparently your reading skill isn’t as superb as you think it is.

OK, let's just move beyond all your ad hominem. It doesn't help you in any way.

Just because you make me feel bad doesn't mean it really works.

OK, let's just move beyond all your hyper-sensitivities too. This isn't personal for me, and it shouldn't be for you either.

Why would I lose any sleep over a few nasty words from a random internet troll?

I challenge you to provide ANY post of mine where I used "nasty words". otoh, I could post pages of YOUR "nasty words" to me.

You ain't nothing but a gaslighter with a circular argument.

Here we go again. ad hominem and lies.

"How to be filled with the Spirit?" "Stop quenching/grieving the Spirit!" "How to stop quenching/grieving the Spirit?" "Be filled with the Spirit!"

The Bible actually COMMANDS believers to be "filled with the Spirit" and to "STOP grieving/quenching the Spirit" and you claim this is a "circular argument"?????? Are you serious? All you are doing with these kinds of questions is revealing your ignorance of Scripture.

And when I tried to explain a thing or two from the gospels and Acts, you just dismissed it

I sure did, because there was NO kind of explanation. All you give are vague statements, but NO explanations. Do you know what the word "explanaton" means?

'cause that's beneath you and irrelevant to you!

What bothers me is failure to provide an explanation and then the poster claims they did.

You thought I'm in the middle getting dizzy and confused, while I'm actually standing in the outside watching you going round and round chasing your own tail.

So now you're "watching me"? How do you do that?

If there's really a difference between "indwelling" and "filling", then what's the difference between the "indwelling" in Acts 2:4 and "filling" in Acts 4:8?

It's the same difference, which you admit that you aren't aware of.

I asked that before, you just dodged and deflected, and you never gave an answer because you insisted that was just for Peter, not me - even though every believer is a member of the Body of Christ, and Jesus himself demonstrated that no one is greater than another by bowing down to wash the disciples' feet!

I never gave my answer because it didn't appear you were interested in one.

The "indwelling" is when the Holy Spirit comes to RESIDE in the believer. It is called the "sealing of the Spirit" in Eph 1:13. This indwelling is permanent, since Jesus said the Spirit would be with us FOR EVER.

The "filling" of the Spirit is when the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord through confession of sins (1 John 1:9) and asking God to be filled with the Spirit. Since this is a command, and therefore, God's direct will for the believer, praying for God's will regarding the filling of the Spirit will be answered when the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord. 1 John 5:14,15

You are encouraged to look up the verses I cite and see for yourself where I get my information, so if you disagree with anything I've posted, please address whatever verse you think doesn't say what I claim it says.

btw, I already explained all this in another thread and gave you the title and post number, which you just dismissed and claimed that I didn't explain anything. If you don't think what I've just explained above, you really do not understand the meaning of words.

If you really had the Spirit, you should've known already, and you surely wouldn't behaved in this way with a closed mind so tightly sealed like an airlock.

You really have a problem with ad hominem. Actually, believers who are filled with the Spirit do NOT lower themselves to ad hominem.

How I'm filled with the Spirit is exactly the same as how Peter was filled with the Spirit.

Not possible, since you have already made it clear that you don't even know the difference between indwelling and filling.

If you're not interested at how Peter was filled, you're not interested at how I'm filled either 'cause come one, come all, Peter received the Spirit in the same way as everybody else in the crowd of pilgrims at Pentecost.

What you STILL don't understand is that "receiving the Spirit" isn't filling but indwelling.

You're getting personal at me first with vitriol

Look in mirror. That is all you've been doing.

so I just give you a dose of your own medicine, 'cause there's no point of reasoning with an arrogant numb skull like you.

Wrong. I don't deal in doses of medicine. But I do call out when others get personal like yourself and use virtrol.

I suggest we just cease posting to each other. It is clear that your mind is too tightly closed to let anything in.

You've admitted that you take everything personally and you are WAY too hypersensitive.

Not a good mix when trying to communicate with you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Daniel was writing about the church rising out of the dust long before you were even thought of.

lol. You are funny. There was NO knowledge of the church in the OT. Not even Daniel knew about it.

I think it's pathetic that you feel you know more about Daniels prophecies than Daniel.

Since Daniel was in the OT, he DID NOT KNOW about the church at all. How can you not know this?

I guess by not knowing the Bible.

1 Peter 1-
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,
11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.
12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Peter was teaching YOU that the OT prophets were 'trying to find out the time and circumstances". Yes, they knew they were writing Scripture, but they didn't know anything about the time between the crucifixion and Second Advent. As Peter suggests here.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Oh, good grief! Really? Have you ever trusted completely (that means ONLY) in the finished work of Jesus Christ on your behalf when He died on the cross for you? If yes, then you were given the gift of eternal life, per John 5:24. And Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So, your question shows that you are either unaware of Jesus' promise, or you are but don't believe it.

Salvation isn't about getting your "oil" changed, or a fill up. Not even close.


I think Jesus prefers that His children focus on the TRUTH He taught, such as eternal security, rather than on unbiblical notions.

That's a very rude, disrespectful and uncivil response to my question, that puts you in breach of the forum rules. I haven't paid a membership subscription to allow that to happen.

Faith without evidence of obedience and other good works is a dead faith. See Jesus' words below. Will He be putting you with the goats, or with the sheep?

NASB 1995 Matthew 25, Verses 31-46:

The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’

37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’

40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’

44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’

45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's a very rude, disrespectful and uncivil response to my question, that puts you in breach of the forum rules. I haven't paid a membership subscription to allow that to happen.

Huh? I gave you Scripture that proves that salvation is secure permanently. It cannot be lost. That isn't being rude. And my question wasn't rude either. It was a clear presentation of HOW to be saved.

Faith without evidence of obedience and other good works is a dead faith.

Since James wasn't talking about how to get saved, his point of a dead faith is a faith that cannot be demonstrated to others.

His point is summarized in 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Unfortunately every translation that includes quote marks goofed up.

This is how is should be:
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

iow, the "someone" says the whole thing, both sentences.

If the "someone" only said the first sentence, the second one doesn't make sense.

That "someone" DID have faith, as the second sentence shows. His challenge is to show your faith without works and he will show his faith by what he does.

See Jesus' words below. Will He be putting you with the goats, or with the sheep?

Since I placed by faith alone in Him alone for salvation, according to John 5:24, I POSSESS eternal life. And since Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, I am secure in Him. Or course I AM a sheep of His.

Are you a goat or His sheep? And on what basis?

 

[ChristianTonyB]

First of all, a huge condemning issue among today's Christians is a misconception of the term SALVATION. What I've learned from most of y'all is that salvation is nothing more a life insurance policy, a ticket to heaven, or a bailout from hell. Is that all that is? Is that what God himself died for in the most painful, gruesome, humiliating way? If you wanna have blessed assurance, then you must be assured that you've already had salvation in THIS LIFE. Yes, you heard me right, not next life, but THIS LIFE. Our physical life in the flesh is a preview of the next life, it's a foretaste of what to come. So when you bring up the question about what is to come on your personal day to meet our Maker, ask yourself, has Jesus already set you free? Free from guilt? Shame? Addictions? Obsessions? Grudges? Troubles? All those emotional and psychological issues that have locked your soul in chains and shuckles, to which the only fix is rest in Christ? Has he buried all the demons from your past in the past and led you walk in the newness of life? Have you reached that blissful moment and savored that foretaste in THIS LIFE? I believe that at least is a SIGN of Christ's salvation for your next life. I hope this helps.

With all due respect, your understanding seems to be lacking some understanding. Think through paralleling a Christian walk with the Israelites walk from the time of how and when they were saved from their past enslavements, and throughout their time in the desert that followed. Many were slaughtered by God in the desert because of their unfaithfulness, even though they had been 'saved'. When you've had time to deeply dwell on that, I would be pleased to learn of your insights. Thank you.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Huh? I gave you Scripture that proves that salvation is secure permanently. It cannot be lost. That isn't being rude. And my question wasn't rude either. It was a clear presentation of HOW to be saved.


Since James wasn't talking about how to get saved, his point of a dead faith is a faith that cannot be demonstrated to others.

His point is summarized in 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Unfortunately every translation that includes quote marks goofed up.

This is how is should be:
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

iow, the "someone" says the whole thing, both sentences.

If the "someone" only said the first sentence, the second one doesn't make sense.

That "someone" DID have faith, as the second sentence shows. His challenge is to show your faith without works and he will show his faith by what he does.



Since I placed by faith alone in Him alone for salvation, according to John 5:24, I POSSESS eternal life. And since Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, I am secure in Him. Or course I AM a sheep of His.

Are you a goat or His sheep? And on what basis?

Your reply was disgraceful, and immature. And you can't excuse yourself out of it. With the humble and contrite of heart I will work with, but the pridefull and self-confident fool, I will ignore.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your reply was disgraceful, and immature. And you can't excuse yourself out of it. With the humble and contrite of heart I will work with, but the pridefull and self-confident fool, I will ignore.

The verses speak for themselves. I will have to assume they offended you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your reply was disgraceful, and immature. And you can't excuse yourself out of it. With the humble and contrite of heart I will work with, but the pridefull and self-confident fool, I will ignore.

Sometimes I get "second thoughts" about a post. This is one.

This is what I had posted to CTB:
FreeGrace2 said:
Oh, good grief! Really? Have you ever trusted completely (that means ONLY) in the finished work of Jesus Christ on your behalf when He died on the cross for you? If yes, then you were given the gift of eternal life, per John 5:24. And Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So, your question shows that you are either unaware of Jesus' promise, or you are but don't believe it.

Salvation isn't about getting your "oil" changed, or a fill up. Not even close.

I think Jesus prefers that His children focus on the TRUTH He taught, such as eternal security, rather than on unbiblical notions.

This was your post in #293:
The concern I have is, that my personal ’terrible day of the Lord’ might be tomorrow. So, I’m wondering, if I die tomorrow, does my flask have enough oil in it to get me into the wedding feast, or will I be left outside in inconsolable grief and unending anguish?

I suspect Jesus would prefer me to focus on discussions that will help me keep my oil flask full, for when He calls ’times up‘ on my earthly life. Has anyone got any advice for me on how I can achieve that please?

My post answered his question.

I think Jesus prefers that His children focus on the TRUTH He taught, such as eternal security, rather than on unbiblical notions.

The poster was worried about his security and thought his security was in "the oil in his flask". Which it isn't.

My answer was straightforward and biblical. Which he obviously didn't appreciate.

He said my reply "was disgraceful and immature", and then followed that up with indicating that I "am a prideful and self-confident FOOL".

Then he asked me this:
See Jesus' words below. Will He be putting you with the goats, or with the sheep?

So I replied with this in #316:
Since I placed by faith alone in Him alone for salvation, according to John 5:24, I POSSESS eternal life. And since Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, I am secure in Him. Or course I AM a sheep of His.

Are you a goat or His sheep? And on what basis?

Apparently he can ask others if they are goats or sheep, but he is offended if anyone asks him that question.