Is it better to have no awareness of sin?

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Mar 4, 2020
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#41
And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
It is not blinding you to your past sins. The Pharisees, who had better knowledge of God, because they had his law, understood better than the rest of the Israelites, but their rejection of Jesus made them blind.

Start at the beginning. The whole reason why he did this miracle was to show the work of God in him- he was demonstrating who he was. This whole passage is about faith in Jesus, not absolving ignorant people.
Doesn’t make sense when we look at it the way you’re saying is correct.

If seeing is knowing Jesus is the Son of God then why did Jesus say He wants to make those who see become blind?(John 9:39) That would mean He wants people to be ignorant that He is the Son of God. So just based off of that alone we can eliminate your interpretation as false.

Now I’ll let you explain what Jesus meant in John 9 and I’ll tell you if you’re right. Hint: I’ve given you the correct answer numerous times by now.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#42
Doesn’t make sense when we look at it the way you’re saying is correct.

If seeing is knowing Jesus is the Son of God then why did Jesus say He wants to make those who see become blind?(John 9:39) That would mean He wants people to be ignorant that He is the Son of God. So just based off of that alone we can eliminate your interpretation as false.

Now I’ll let you explain what Jesus meant in John 9 and I’ll tell you if you’re right. Hint: I’ve given you the correct answer numerous times by now.
I just explained why seeing was different before Jesus came. The Pharisees had the best sight before he came, because the WORD was in the law. When he came in the flesh, they rejected it and became blind.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#43
I just explained why seeing was different before Jesus came. The Pharisees had the best sight before he came, because the WORD was in the law. When he came in the flesh, they rejected it and became blind.
Then I encourage you to read my OP again in post #1. Jesus wants us to be like little children who aren’t even aware of what sin is, but we’re adults and most of us are quite corrupt. People need to see (be made aware of their sin) and then be made blind (not aware of sin). That’s the whole point of what Jesus said in John 9. Try reading it again now and see if you can see the angle I’m talking about.

If not let’s gracefully agree to disagree, but don’t barge into threads accusing people of distorting the word when you clearly don’t even have it right yourself.

The clearest interpretation of what Jesus meant is in verse 41. Don’t try to alter it.

John 9:39-41
39Then Jesus declared, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind.”

40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?”

41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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#44
1John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
 

SomeDisciple

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#45
Then I encourage you to read my OP again in post #1. Jesus wants us to be like little children who aren’t even aware of what sin is, but we’re adults and most of us are quite corrupt. People need to see (be made aware of their sin) and then be made blind (not aware of sin). That’s the whole point of what Jesus said in John 9. Try reading it again now and see if you can see the angle I’m talking about.

John 9:39-41
39Then Jesus declared, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind.”

40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?”

41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”
He said humble yourself like children; not be ignorant like children. In understanding we are supposed to be like men.
In fact- by humbling ourselves and coming to the Lord, and engrafting the word- that's how we become men in understanding. Not humbling ourselves is how we remain ignorant- like the Pharisees remained ignorant of many things.... of the true understanding of the law which they claimed to cherish: they remained ignorant of it's meaning because they wanted a king messiah to conquer their enemies instead of a priest messiah to lead them into spiritual truths.

I didnt accuse you of distorting the word, by the way. You may have learned a distortion, but I'm not going to accuse you of false teaching, because you didnt present yourself as a teacher. But I dont feel bad about pointing it out the distortion at all. Because it needed to be pointed out.
Jesus didn't teach ignorance.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#46
Well there is different kinds of love. When we “love” our enemies we do so in a social or moral sense, but that doesn’t rule out they can’t be hated in other ways. There’s people I love in the sense I would help them if they needed food, clothing, shelter, medical treatment. However, as far as their opinions go, their motivations, their attitude, their personality, even their laugh or smile I utterly detest and I don’t see where that’s a sin.

That doesn’t mean I’ll be mean to them or anything, but it doesn’t mean I need to respect them, validate them, or give them any assistance outside of helping them if they are in genuine need.

The. Bible actually tells us how to treat our enemies: we don’t roll the red carpet out for them. That isn’t the kind of love the Bible teaches for enemies.

Like you said we need to give full council when teaching the word and it isn’t for the intellectually or spiritual lazy person. It definitely requires a lot of energy just trying to teach definitions of Biblical words like love for example.
I had a hard time with the loving your enemy command. I prayed about it for sometime.
My understanding of this came to be.....dont allow yourself to become their enemy.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#47
.
Jesus is the only one of God's sons that's His by birth. (Luke 1:35, John
1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, Heb 11:17, 1John 4:9)

All the other sons of God are His by adoption (Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5)

Seeing as how Jesus is God's son by birth, then it's no surprise that he
would be 110% sinless.

1John 3:8-9 . . He who sins is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from
the beginning. . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed
remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
_
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#48
Matthew 24:21
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Sure, I can read too. I'll leave the arguments about what it means to others.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#49
He said humble yourself like children; not be ignorant like children. In understanding we are supposed to be like men.
In fact- by humbling ourselves and coming to the Lord, and engrafting the word- that's how we become men in understanding. Not humbling ourselves is how we remain ignorant- like the Pharisees remained ignorant of many things.... of the true understanding of the law which they claimed to cherish: they remained ignorant of it's meaning because they wanted a king messiah to conquer their enemies instead of a priest messiah to lead them into spiritual truths.

I didnt accuse you of distorting the word, by the way. You may have learned a distortion, but I'm not going to accuse you of false teaching, because you didnt present yourself as a teacher. But I dont feel bad about pointing it out the distortion at all. Because it needed to be pointed out.
Jesus didn't teach ignorance.
No.

Where did Jesus say what you’re purporting He said? I have clear evidence from John 9 where Jesus said He came to make the blind see and those who see become blind. You seem to have inserted the word ignorance in there, which carries the connotation of never having knowledge of something due to being unlearned.

Seeing means having sin, being blind means without sin. The word of God confirms this so stop arguing because I’ll never move on this particular point.

Jesus said you must “become” like a child as a full grown adult. That means you need to change the way you think.

Matthew 18:3,4
3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus wouldn’t reverse His position on becoming like a child in any point during His teachings. That means you need to be blind to your sin.

If you disagree, show me the verse from the words of Jesus that says you should always be aware of your sins.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#51
No.

Where did Jesus say what you’re purporting He said? I have clear evidence from John 9 where Jesus said He came to make the blind see and those who see become blind. You seem to have inserted the word ignorance in there, which carries the connotation of never having knowledge of something due to being unlearned.

Seeing means having sin, being blind means without sin. The word of God confirms this so stop arguing because I’ll never move on this particular point.

Jesus said you must “become” like a child as a full grown adult. That means you need to change the way you think.

Matthew 18:3,4
3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus wouldn’t reverse His position on becoming like a child in any point during His teachings. That means you need to be blind to your sin.

If you disagree, show me the verse from the words of Jesus that says you should always be aware of your sins.
How can someone repent if they don’t know they sinned ? Repentance is the first thing Jesus spoke after his anointing in order to repent we have to have discernment between good and evil

without the knowledge of sin , and our awareness of it why did Jesus lay his life down for us ?

if we aren’t aware of our sin we can’t ever come to repentance when you become aware this happens

“For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:8-11‬ ‭

the situation is Paul needs about someone’s sexual immorality sexual sin on the church at Corinth d heard they were approving of it so Paul writes a scathing letter making then fully aware of thier misdeeds and misconceptions he makes the. Understand they have sinned and need to repent that’s what made the. Sorry me led to repentance

if Paul had ignored thier sin and not made them aware of it they would have continued in ignorance defiling the church

it’s ultra important that we accept and become fully aware of our sins , in order to have remission of sins we have to acknowledge them

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭

see if we are t aware of our sin we’re going to think we don’t have any because we’re denying the reality of Christ and his word that tells us all the world is guilty of sin we need awareness of this in order to come to this place of repentance and remission

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I’m. It aware of my sins this is irrelevant to me repent of what ? Have what remitted ? It’s important part of the plan for man to understand we’ve fallen and are lost without him
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#52
Seeing means having sin, being blind means without sin. The word of God confirms this so stop arguing because I’ll never move on this particular point.
Yeah... this position is not a good hill to die on- you might want to reconsider. Also, posting on a public forum and telling people "stop arguing" is silly.

Seeing means having sin, being blind means without sin.
The Pharisees were the blind leaders of the blind, leading people into a pit. They were not without sin.

Jesus wouldn’t reverse His position on becoming like a child in any point during His teachings.
Verse 4 tells you what he meant in verse 3. He said nothing about being blind to your sin.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#53
.
The discernment of evil is different than knowing that evil is sin; for
example:

Rom 7:7 . . I would not have known what sin was except through the law.
For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said,
"Do not covet."

There was a time in Paul's life when he intuitively knew that conniving to
relieve people of what's rightfully theirs instead of getting his own is wrong,
but he had no clue whatsoever that the practice is a sin until someone
introduced him to Exodus 20:15, which says:

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your
neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor
his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."

The same can be said of dishonesty. Left to themselves, Jewish kids will
eventually reach an age of realization when they will intuitively know that
lies are wrong; but they won't know that dishonesty is a sin until such a time
as someone introduces them to Ex 19:11 which says:

"You shall not deal falsely, neither lie one to another."

Primitive folks who've never even once in their lifetimes been taught
anything from the Bible, won't be judged on the basis of sin.

Rom 5:13 . . For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed
when there is no law.

In other words; had Paul never discovered that covetous is a sin, he
wouldn't have been accused of covetousness on the basis of it being a sin.
Instead, he would've been held to account for covetousness on the basis of
his intuition.

Rom 2:12 . . For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish
without law

Rom 2:14 . . For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature
the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto
themselves
_
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#54
We are not held accountable for sins we are ignorant of.
Do we then make void the law that grace might abound?
The closer we come to Jesus the more we are able to see how sinful we are. The brighter His righteousness is, the more we see our sinfulness in comparison.

Those that want to continue in sin will stay away from Jesus and the light that reveals sin.