When We All Get to Heaven

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Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#81
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Well; the new cosmos won't be constructed till after Messiah's millennial rein
on this corrupt earth is over, and the great white throne event wraps. Which
is fine with me 'cause there's a lot left to see and do that I won't get around
to in this life. I plan on making very good use of those thousand years to
tour ever square inch of this planet-- on land and sea.

I'm very prone to nostalgia so I don't look forward to a new cosmos when
this one suits me just fine. I will consider it a great personal loss when the
cosmos that I know and love is obliterated beyond recovery, and gone
forever and ever.

Fortunately Isa 65:17 predicts a memory wipe that should prove very helpful
for those of us attached to familiar things.
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#82
I would like to see Christians drop the whole "going to heaven" schtick.
Why? If you are a believer that should be one of your firmest beliefs, since it is a fundamental of the faith. So who has deceived you into thinking that we will not go to Heaven?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,205
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#83
Why? If you are a believer that should be one of your firmest beliefs, since it is a fundamental
of the faith. So who has deceived you into thinking that we will not go to Heaven?
Fundamental to whose faith? My faith is in God, Who has promised to create
a new heavens and earth, the new earth being our forever after home.


Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.


Revelation 21:1
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and
the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,205
29,503
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#84
Why? If you are a believer that should be one of your firmest beliefs, since it is a fundamental
of the faith. So who has deceived you into thinking that we will not go to Heaven?
Who has deceived you into thinking your forever after life will be in heaven?

Do you picture yourself floating on a cloud, perhaps plucking a harp as well?
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
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#85
I wonder sometimes when an unbeliever points out that even believers can't agree on what the Bible is saying how much we are affecting the world? Here atn is hais happening to the Bible.greement. We all think the Bible is plain, straight forward, yet some of our beliefs are so far apart. And each one of us would say we follow the Word and are guided by the Holy Spirit and that is why we believe the way we believe.

How do we reach a world when we won't even let each other in to heaven? I've been wondering about that lately, and it's been bothering me. A well known actress that is a Christian said to two comedian friends of hers that God loves them. They said they were astounded, because no one had ever told them God loves them. And that got me to thinking, why didn't they know? I've always been very black and white in what I believe. But I wonder, are we trying to do the Holy Spirits work? A popular singing group has a song called "I Catch Em', He Cleans Em'. We're to be fishers of men. But are we trying to do work that isn't ours to do? An old singer said once, "the older I'm getting, the more people I'm letting into heaven". Does anyone else feel the same way? Or is it just me? Why aren't we more in one accord. And don't tell me "because the way you believe is wrong". Every single person here believes they are right according to the Word. If that is true, we should be able to sing "There's a Sweet, Sweet Spirit in This Place" and there isn't. Why?!

Mainly because satan has managed to infuse many different perverted versions of ...god's word into the christian community resulting in many interpretations. Everyone's version is final. ....notwithstanding the fact that specific language is constantly ignored.

If folks would just stop for a minute and understand that most new versions and new interpretations are...new age religion based ......and have occurred since the 1960's.
That fact alone should cause anyone to stop and take a close look of what is happening.

Example;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).


Threads here showing the disagreement.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
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#86
If folks would just stop for a minute and understand that most new versions and new interpretations are...new age religion based ......and have occurred since the 1960's.

That fact alone should cause anyone to stop and take a close look of what is happening.
There you go.

Someone's paying attention.

Good for you, sincerely.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
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#87
I would like to see Christians drop the whole "going to heaven" schtick.
For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

It's a biblical concept.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,205
29,503
113
#89
For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

It's a biblical concept.
Where does it say we live in heaven? Yeah, no, it doesn't. The New Jerusalem
comes down from heaven to the new earth. It's a Biblical Truth.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
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#91
Heaven I believe could be a symbolic designation because ...Heaven already exist.

Christ said...I go to prepare a place for you.....
Christ did not say I go to expand a place for you.

Heaven is where God lives.
The Bible says....no one has ever seen God and if you did you must surely die.
The Lords prayer includes......thy kingdom comes thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
At the rapture.... the Bible does not say ...we ascend into Heaven.
We go with Christ...to where???
etc.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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#94
Where does it say we live there? Yeah, no, it doesn't. The New Jerusalem
comes down from heaven to the new earth. It's a Biblical Truth.
It is not a contradiction. To say my home is in heaven is ok. The New Heavens and the New Earth should not be understood as not "heaven" in the common way we are referring to a spiritual, other worldly, heavenly home.

In the way we refer to heaven the New Heavens and the New Earth are a fulfilment of that promise.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So you see that our eternal New Earth is still called "heavenly" and therefore saying I look forward to a heavenly home is correct and the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven to a New Earth is a heavenly home and not a contradiction in terms.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,205
29,503
113
#96
It is not a contradiction. To say my home is in heaven is ok. The New Heavens and the New Earth should not be understood as not "heaven" in the common way we are referring to a spiritual, other worldly, heavenly home.

In the way we refer to heaven the New Heavens and the New Earth are a fulfilment of that promise.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So you see that our eternal New Earth is still called "heavenly" and therefore saying I look forward to a heavenly home is correct and the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven to a New Earth is a heavenly home and not a contradiction in terms.
A heavenly home is quite different to saying we are going to live in heaven. Get with the program. Just sayin'
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
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#98
When a Christian dies, initially, their spirit and soul go to heaven, which is an intermediate place for the righteous dead until the time of Christ's second coming (he only comes twice - Heb. 9:28) when they shall return to this earth with Christ in their glorified bodies in order to enter into the kingdom of God.

In relation to the same, we read:

Philippians chapter 1

[21] For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
[22] But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
[23] For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
[24] Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Again:

Romans chapter 8

[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Yet, again:

II Corinthians chapter 5

[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

While absent from the Lord who is in heaven and seated at the Father's right hand, or while still alive upon this earth in an earthly body, a Christian groans while desiring to be clothed upon with their house which is from heaven, or with their glorified body, or while awaiting the redemption of their body. At the same time, those Christians who have already died, or those Christians who are absent from their bodies and present with the Lord in heaven, similarly wait for their glorified bodies, and both sets of Christians, whether those who have already died in Christ or those who will yet be alive at his second coming, will receive their glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.

To this end, we read:

Ephesians chapter 1

[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Again:

I Thessalonians chapter 4

[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

At Christ's second coming or at "the coming of the Lord" (vs. 15), he shall "descend from heaven" (vs. 16), and "them also which sleep in Jesus" (vs. 14) or "the dead in Christ" (vs. 16) "will God bring with him" (vs. 14), or with Jesus, from heaven because this is precisely where both Jesus and the dead in Christ are descending from. At the same time, "we which are alive and remain" unto the Lord's second coming "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (vs. 17). These Christians who will yet be alive at the Lord's second coming "shall not prevent" or precede, which is what this Old English word means, "them which are asleep" (vs. 15) or shall not get their glorified bodies until "the dead in Christ rise first" (vs. 16).

Notice again that the both the Lord and the dead in Christ are DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN WHILE COMING TO THIS EARTH, and that the saints who are yet alive at that time are "caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS" (vs. 17), WHICH ARE IN THIS EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE, in order "to meet the Lord IN THE AIR" (vs. 17), which is also referring to THIS EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE. In other words, no alleged U-turn back to heaven anywhere here (or elsewhere) during any alleged phony pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture, but rather all of these things occur during THE LORD'S DESCENT FROM HEAVEN TO THIS EARTH.

The saints of God need their glorified bodies in order to enter into the kingdom of God which is coming to this earth, even as Jesus taught his disciples to pray:

Matthew chapter 6

[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

In relation to the exact reason why saints need their glorified bodies, we read:

I Corinthians chapter 15

[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The saints of God need their glorified or incorruptible bodies in order to inherit the kingdom of God, and, again, the kingdom of God is coming to this earth, even as Jesus taught his disciples to pray. Here, we see the same order of events that Paul described in I Thessalonians chapter 4. At Christ's second coming, the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptible, and we, those Christians who are yet alive at this time, shall be changed. Of course, this all transpires at the LAST trump or when the seventh or final trumpet of the book of Revelation sounds.

Having received their glorified bodies, the saints will reign and rule with Christ right here on earth for 1000 years during his Millennial Reign:

Revelation chapter 5

[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation chapter 20

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This FIRST resurrection coincides with Christ's second coming, and there are no resurrections prior to this FIRST resurrection.

After Christ's Millennial Reign comes a new heaven and a new earth as the heavenly Jerusalem descends from heaven to this earth, and this is where the saints of God or Christians shall ultimately spend eternity.

Revelation chapter 21

[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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#99
A heavenly home is quite different to saying we are going to live in heaven. Get with the program. Just sayin'
You need to just calm down and draw me a picture about that. :)