Anti-denominational followers of Jesus

[Amanuensis]

I feel that the wheat and tares will happen no matter what. But for me, I can't go against Jesus prayer to the Father for unity amongst His disciples, and the encouragement from the apostles that we, Jesus' church, must stay unified. In my opinion we would be using an awfully long bow to suggest the church is unified. Since Jesus owns us, how can we tolerate divisions in His church?

I personally can't see how I am being loyal to Jesus if I join up to or associate with a denomination/division of the church.

Can I ask you what kind of church you DO believe in getting involved in?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Believers should fellowship with each other, and not become isolated islands. There is power in Joint Prayer. There is mutual edification and combined learning of Scripture that can go on. We should learn to be pleasant and polite about slight difference in approach we may have. The Scriptures teach us all. We should love to Praise and Worship the Lord, and offer our bodies a living sacrifice to Him.

"Heb 10:25
Amplified Bible
not forsaking our meeting together [as believers for worship and instruction], as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more [faithfully] as you see the day [of Christ’s return] approaching.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Ironically that is what a cooperative voluntary organization like the Assemblies of God does.

They are not technically a denomination. They are individual local fellowship of believers just believing what the Bible says and trying to win the lost. By contributing resources together they are able to accomplish much more for world evangelism than one local church can do alone.

The bible requires a belief system. There is no way around that.

The idea that one can avoid contributing to the division by not fellowshipping with any Christians at all would be an unbiblical idea.

The idea that a bunch of Christians can come together and meet and live the Christian life together and mix up the order of days that they meet, when they sing and worship, when they hear the teaching of the Word, or methods and activities they engage in when they meet, or how and when they pray together would some how make them not a denomination or somehow make them more acceptable as how God intended Christians to meet is in itself just another division, and group, and denomination.

I fellowshipped at the AOG in Sydney for a year and a half, and I found it a bit of a disaster. If I could use an analogy, the behaviour I experienced from the people that had been members for years was akin to what you would expect from a new born that had just crossed the Red Sea. They conducted a formalised church service which I find difficult to believe is beneficial to anyone unless the participants exude godly character in their lives generally. There wasn't much of that evident in that fellowship in my experience. The worship services there were certainly upbeat, but that didn't seem to be helping the vast majority of participants to mature spiritually ie develop godly character. It was very sad to see. For my own safety sake and spiritual welfare, I left the AOG.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Can I ask you what kind of church you DO believe in getting involved in?

When I became a Christian, Jesus automatically gave me membership to His church, similarly as He does for others that have had their spirit brought to life. After a while I came to understand through the Holy Spirit's counsel that denominations cannot have been inspired by God, and indeed they go against His definition of one body, one church.

I'm still involved in that church, and I suspect there are some members of CC that are also members of it. We don't necessarily meet together, although we would like to. It's part of the cost of following Jesus only.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Would putting up a sign in front of a meeting place and calling it "Followers of Christ Meet Here" be any different than a sign that says "New Life Fellowship?" I doubt that it matters to most people.

Most people would think you were calling your church "Followers of Christ" as just another denomination. Or division. Or whatever you label an organized group of christians meeting at a building.

They all say they are just believers being believers and not a denomination.

But there are many churches that are just "Followers of Christ" meeting together and not part of a denomination. They have all kinds of names. New Life, Church on the Rock, Mayberry Church, and they are not part of any other church but that one fellowship.

Are you saying that these are also somehow denominational or divisive because they have a name at all?

I would never label a meeting place anything. I agree with you, by default it will become recognised as another denomination, or be a meaningless name or organisation to anyone on the outside.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Believers should fellowship with each other, and not become isolated islands. There is power in Joint Prayer. There is mutual edification and combined learning of Scripture that can go on. We should learn to be pleasant and polite about slight difference in approach we may have. The Scriptures teach us all. We should love to Praise and Worship the Lord, and offer our bodies a living sacrifice to Him.

"Heb 10:25
Amplified Bible
not forsaking our meeting together [as believers for worship and instruction], as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more [faithfully] as you see the day [of Christ’s return] approaching.

Scripture, in more than one place, advises that God desires obedience above offerings and sacrifices. A worship service is a type of offering.

 

[JohnDB]

During the Colonial days in America (1600-1800) the non-denominational members of society were known as Deists.
It doesn't mean that they were Atheists by any stretch of the imagination or that the principles and Morals taught by scriptures were not strictly adhered to.

Benjamin Franklin was just such a Deist. But the first lines in his Autobiography give full weight and credit to God in a most sincere way.

 

[Aerials1978]

Which raises the question, who is qualified to declare which are Christian, and which aren't? I wouldn't like to try to do that! How does an unbeliever or a new-born Christian seeking knowledge of Christianity know which ones are genuine churches of God, or which are counterfeit? You can't rely on advice or recommendations from the internet, because a lot of that will be of subjective/personal opinion.

I would say what kind of fruit do you see in their lives.. Do proclaim one thing, but live like the would does? With regards to churches, do they actually teach the gospel or is it human centered preaching?

 

[Willow]

I particularly agree with your last sentence.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I refuse to be known by anything other than a Christ believer and follower. My goal is to mature and act as one of those in spirit and in truth, and that's a WIP. My fear is, if I label myself as belonging to a particular party, or have continuing and close association with it, I'll eventually be conditioned by its particular bias and become more unbalanced than I already am.

We are to walk our own walk. Took me years to understand I do not have to conform to men's ideas of how I should serve the Lord. I have made a few uncomfortable by this idea and even mad. That is not God but their crazy narcissistic way. Example: I had a woman come up at the ending of a church service and ask me to come up and get prayer. I said" No I am sorry I do not feel led of God to go up for prayer. Her mouth dropped in amazement. To her it was a ritual to ask new people to come up and get prayer. It was not the Holy Spirit leading her. I have set it in my life to walk my walk the way God wants me too. I have learned even if I do not agree with what someone is doing is to give it to God and move on.
My walk and strength in God makes some men even uncomfortable. Because I do not waiver and cannot be coheresed into changing for man. But I go to church for fellowship and to see things maybe thru a new perspective. But if it bothers you I understand.

 

[JohnDB]

We are to walk our own walk. Took me years to understand I do not have to conform to men's ideas of how I should serve the Lord. I have made a few uncomfortable by this idea and even mad. That is not God but their crazy narcissistic way. Example: I had a woman come up at the ending of a church service and ask me to come up and get prayer. I said" No I am sorry I do not feel led of God to go up for prayer. Her mouth dropped in amazement. To her it was a ritual to ask new people to come up and get prayer. It was not the Holy Spirit leading her. I have set it in my life to walk my walk the way God wants me too. I have learned even if I do not agree with what someone is doing is to give it to God and move on.
My walk and strength in God makes some men even uncomfortable. Because I do not waiver and cannot be coheresed into changing for man. But I go to church for fellowship and to see things maybe thru a new perspective. But if it bothers you I understand.

It doesn't bother me...
But then again I sit on the rim of the pail of orthodoxy in a denomination that has the broadest pail of them all...the SBC churches.

However I get called out a lot because I don't carry my Bible with me to church but use my cell phone. (It has bibles on it if I cared to look) but usually I don't need to. I have great recall abilities to quote scriptures and lessons from scriptures off the top of my head. Which annoys the stew out of some people.

Especially when they start in on the myths and hold extra-biblical works in higher esteem than scriptures that defy God's character. God is omniscience omnipotent and Sovereign. No surprise parties for God....

Which I agree infuriates people.

 

[Amanuensis]

I would never label a meeting place anything. I agree with you, by default it will become recognised as another denomination, or be a meaningless name or organisation to anyone on the outside.

You have to have a name for tax and property laws and many other legal reasons. A corporate identity for controlling assets, property and bank account. You need this to be controlled by a group of people from the church and not one pastor. Therefore the corporate identity. I know I am being obvious but I am making a point that a name is necessary. You can't really get around it.

Maybe "A Church in XYZ Town" and the sign outside could say "A Church in XYZ Town meets here" Not a bad idea. I kind of like it.

I would want people to find us if they did a Google search for "Churches near me"

The need to be easy to find for those who are seeking God is a top priority necessity. So no matter how much you try to make it appear nameless and organic and not denominationally connected, you still end up with a name. "A Local Church Fellowship" will still be a name. People will call you LCF. LOL.

 

[arthurfleminger]

The goal should be to fellowship with a group of like mined believers. When you find that group that you feel is doing things and teaching things like what you think is biblical and you have a clear conscience supporting, then support it and grow the Kingdom of God together. What is not biblical is having no vision for the local church.

Personally I can't comprehend not having a passionate vision for the local church and wanting to be an active servant within it. I would think that anyone who isn't living and breathing participation in a local fellowship is going to feel like there is something wrong with them. And for good reason. I am not into denominations either, but I am all into the Church and being active in it.

You are correct. Throughout Biblical/Salvation history, both Old and New Testament, it was never a case for salvation sufficiency of the credo, 'Just God and Me or Just Jesus and Me'. NEVER.

In fact there was always formal worship as God's people/family, in temples or synagogues, or in Churches. In fact, it was Jesus Himself who founded His Church. So Jesus thought that the Church is important.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT??????????? IF JESUS THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT, SO DO I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. read the Book of Acts of the New Testament and you'll see that the Apostles and Jesus' Disciples were establishing Christ's Church, places of community and worship, throughout the known world.

 

[JohnDB]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...h-brooms-in-bethlehems-church-of-the-nativity

Fighting is a Christian thing to do....

 

[JohnDB]

 

[Amanuensis]

I fellowshipped at the AOG in Sydney for a year and a half, and I found it a bit of a disaster. If I could use an analogy, the behaviour I experienced from the people that had been members for years was akin to what you would expect from a new born that had just crossed the Red Sea. They conducted a formalised church service which I find difficult to believe is beneficial to anyone unless the participants exude godly character in their lives generally. There wasn't much of that evident in that fellowship in my experience. The worship services there were certainly upbeat, but that didn't seem to be helping the vast majority of participants to mature spiritually ie develop godly character. It was very sad to see. For my own safety sake and spiritual welfare, I left the AOG.

My experience in the AG in America is that no two churches are alike. They each have their own culture based on the people and the leadership of that church. A bad experience in one AG church would never equate to a judgment on AG churches elsewhere.

The trend is moving toward the modernization of their buildings being just meeting places and all the traditional decorations inherited from a long history of churches in America are fading away. The majority of AG churches are dropping the name from their signage and literature.

It is common for people to be involved in an AG church for years and not realize it was an AG church. They would tell you it was nondenominational. Because it is. Which is why they can't tell it was associate with the AG.

Most non denominational churches of size start to organize with other non denominational organizations so that they can contribute to world evangelism with a group that they can verify is teaching truth and not error and who are actually getting the job done in planting non denominational churches that are reaching the communities where they are planted. When this happens they have in effect done the same thing that the AG is doing.

So of all the churches out there to explore the AG offers that non denominational feel and culture while also providing a huge worldwide array of open doors of opportunities for those who feel called to fulltime ministry.

We can stop reinventing the wheel with one individual church trying to do things that someone else is already doing a great job of and join them in those successful efforts and get the world evangelized in our lifetime.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Are there any other members of CC that believe divisions/sects/denominations or independent churches that hold formalised religious services, are not in the best interest of the Lord Jesus?

Absolutely, sects and divisions have ravaged Christ's body; and things are too formalized. Those of us who feel this way will have to take back the simpler ways; the religious institutions will definitely not change for us.

Dividing Jesus' body up into different belief systems can't be good, and repetitive religious observances seem to hark back to the superseded, old testament and ritualistic system, that we've been freed from.

What do you consider repetitive religious observances? Are there any repetitive observances you would consider worthy of maintaining?

Wouldn't it be great if we were all just simply known as followers of Christ, or Christians, with no other labels. No theological complexities, a common front to those on the outside, and putting our efforts only into developing behaviour that emulates Jesus'.

Absolutely, this should be the goal. Not seeking signs & wonders; not chasing after wealth; not having to be the most theologically "correct"; but simply seeking His kingdom and His righteousness.

Some have said that even though they fellowship with a denominational church, they have no specific allegiance to it. But aren't they doing that by association, and in effect supporting division?

I've heard people say this as well. They attend or support churches they don't agree with because they think that's where God wants them.

It's time to start forging a better way; the old way is hopelessly lost. I would encourage everyone to talk to people about this every chance you get.

 

[Amanuensis]

I guess you would call me an anti-isolator. I don't believe that is Christian.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I would say what kind of fruit do you see in their lives.. Do proclaim one thing, but live like the would does? With regards to churches, do they actually teach the gospel or is it human centered preaching?

Yes, I agree.

And the other part to this is, are we applying the teaching/learning we are getting from each other when we meet, into our daily lifestyles. Are we encouraging each other to do this. Sometimes I felt I was being lulled into a false sense that as long as I was attending all these formalised religious meetups, I was doing/living the Christian Way.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

You have to have a name for tax and property laws and many other legal reasons. A corporate identity for controlling assets, property and bank account. You need this to be controlled by a group of people from the church and not one pastor. Therefore the corporate identity. I know I am being obvious but I am making a point that a name is necessary. You can't really get around it.

Maybe "A Church in XYZ Town" and the sign outside could say "A Church in XYZ Town meets here" Not a bad idea. I kind of like it.

I would want people to find us if they did a Google search for "Churches near me"

The need to be easy to find for those who are seeking God is a top priority necessity. So no matter how much you try to make it appear nameless and organic and not denominationally connected, you still end up with a name. "A Local Church Fellowship" will still be a name. People will call you LCF. LOL.

The dreaded TLA, three lettered acronym

I don't think the Lord Jesus would complain about that style of naming for location purposes, though. But I can't see how He can be pleased about us calling ourselves by any denominational tag, which go against His want for unity and simplicity.

 

[Amanuensis]

The dreaded TLA, three lettered acronym

I don't think the Lord Jesus would complain about that style of naming for location purposes, though. But I can't see how He can be pleased about us calling ourselves by any denominational tag, which go against His want for unity and simplicity.

I don't care for them either. I am not a fan of satellite churches either. I do agree with one church planting more churches but each one of those churches should create their own culture and not be controlled or named in relation to the planting church.