Anti-denominational followers of Jesus

[Live4Him3]

I can see your point: if this place somehow instantly became an in-person assembly I probably wouldn't stick around either; my standards for that kind of assembly are much higher. That's not a slam against anyone personally, I just mean my expectations for protocol would be much different.

But I don't see this place as the same as an in-person assembly of believers; it's not a church gathering and I think if a person looks at it that way they'll be sorely disappointed.

I don't see this place as the same as an in-person assembly either, but I do honestly believe that many/most in-person assemblies are represented here by the crazy beliefs of several different members here.

Anyhow, I fully expect that a lot of people here think that I'm crazy as well, so I just look for my spots to hopefully sow some good seed.

 

[Amanuensis]

I believe we read about a church that grew and did things as they were needed. They elected deacons when there was a need. They developed pastors over the years as there was a need. Pastors was always the plan of God.

As the church has grown and as non denominational churches seek to be lead by the Holy Spirit they often have developed models where there are several pastors but still a lead.

There is clear evidence of several elders and a leas spokesperson in local churches in the early NT churches and in the NT scriptures.

We strive to find the NT church model and find ourselves having to make many assumptions because it is not as clearly defined as we wish. Because that was not God's plan. It was God's plan that we seek God in prayer and hear from they Holy Spirit as the needs arise and develop our local church government according to the needs in that assembly.

There should always be a governing body that can deal with the pastors if they start teaching false doctrine or fall into sin. That way the local assembly stays strong and continues even if there is a change in leadership. So we have developed such Spirit lead models like this and a lead pastor with other pastors over him, and a board that votes on spending and controls finances, other pastors that listen to the wisdom and leadership of a senior pastor is a good model. It is not the only one. But it is not "un biblical"
Biblical is to hear from the Holy Spirit and respond accordingly.

I won't go to a church where one pastor is running everything with no checks or balances.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

You are correct. Throughout Biblical/Salvation history, both Old and New Testament, it was never a case for salvation sufficiency of the credo, 'Just God and Me or Just Jesus and Me'. NEVER.

In fact there was always formal worship as God's people/family, in temples or synagogues, or in Churches. In fact, it was Jesus Himself who founded His Church. So Jesus thought that the Church is important.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT??????????? IF JESUS THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT, SO DO I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. read the Book of Acts of the New Testament and you'll see that the Apostles and Jesus' Disciples were establishing Christ's Church, places of community and worship, throughout the known world.

So...are you against the concept of denominations, or not. If not, then why have you wasted your time and ours in commenting on this post? It was inviting responses from people that believe denominations and other regimented religious groups are not good for Christianity, the aim of it being to inform them that they are not alone, they have friends here.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Quote the whole post I made please Magenta, so the full intent of it is disclosed.

 

[Eli1]

You’re an interesting guy Tony.
You‘re anti gun but you’re also anti church.
I feel like I’m in middle of train tracks and I don’t know which side to jump. Left or right.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

You’re an interesting guy Tony.
You‘re anti gun but you’re also anti church.
I feel like I’m in middle of train tracks and I don’t know which side to jump. Left or right.

Sorry if I gave that impression. No, I'm not anti gun or anti church.

It's important that the instruments of authority that serve the law as well as those that provide for our country's defence have the proper training, equipping and support so that they can carry out their duties well.

As it turns out through no cause of mine, I'm not a bad shot, whether that be using short or long arms. I chat from time to time with my neighbour over the back fence about different types of guns etc, as he is very much into target shooting and occasionally helps farmers out with shooting wild pigs.

As far as the church is concerned, and I'm talking about the one and only true church here, that in the Bible is referred to as the body of Christ, church of Christ, church of God, I'm very much into protecting its integrity, and extending its reach.

But that church has nothing to do with the ones that have detached from it, or have been formed up by people that want to do their own thing. Those I refer to as denominations and man-derived religious institutions. Being divided away from the church Jesus established, by default means they mustn't be attached to it, even if they claim otherwise.

 

[Amanuensis]

So...are you against the concept of denominations, or not. If not, then why have you wasted your time and ours in commenting on this post? It was inviting responses from people that believe denominations and other regimented religious groups are not good for Christianity, the aim of it being to inform them that they are not alone, they have friends here.

Sorry if I gave that impression. No, I'm not anti gun or anti church.
As far as the church is concerned, and I'm talking about the one and only true church here, that in the Bible is referred to as the body of Christ, church of Christ, church of God, I'm very much into protecting its integrity, and extending its reach.

But that church has nothing to do with the ones that have detached from it, or have been formed up by people that want to do their own thing. Those I refer to as denominations and man-derived religious institutions. Being divided away from the church Jesus established, by default means they mustn't be attached to it, even if they claim otherwise.

It's an interesting thread but it needs more scriptures about the ekklesia (called out assembly).

I believe that what we can find in scriptures are examples and guides. Not everything is defined because God's plan was for us to seek the Lord and pray and hear from the Holy Spirit as we had to deal with things. It was a dynamic, organic evolving church that we get a picture of and we are supposed to take it from there following the examples.

We can't say that people who attend a denominational church and are attempting to follow scriptural pattern of how to be an active assembly is not accepted by God as the local church.

We can't support that with scripture.

If one person is actively involved in an evangelical bible believing denominational church because they believe it is the scriptural thing to do, and another person not believing in denominations decides to stay home and be part of no church, and just call themselves the church, which one is more likely to be told "well done, my good and faithful servant" when Jesus comes back?

 

[Magenta]

I look for a group that emulates Jesus' religious practices. He didn't attend religious services as a norm, in fact the record
of the one He did attend indicates that the participants didn't take too kindly to His words, and tried to kill Him.

He (Jesus) went to Nazareth, where He had been brought up, and on the Sabbath
day He went into the synagogue, as was His custom. He stood up to read, ...

How do you reconcile the record of Scripture (Luke 4:16) with what you have said?

 

[ChristianTonyB]

He (Jesus) went to Nazareth, where He had been brought up, and on the Sabbath
day He went into the synagogue, as was His custom. He stood up to read, ...

How do you reconcile the record of Scripture (Luke 4:16) with what you have said?

There's nothing recorded on what Jesus did at the synagogues on the Sabbaths prior to He starting His ministry. And there's no reference to Him attending anything like regimented worship services that are prevalent in the various denominational and non-denominational religious institutions. Also, at the incident Luke is referring to, He told the Jews that God is not interested in their religious shenanigans. They, being the hypocrites they were, of course took offence at that, and tried to kill Him.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

It's an interesting thread but it needs more scriptures about the ekklesia (called out assembly).

I believe that what we can find in scriptures are examples and guides. Not everything is defined because God's plan was for us to seek the Lord and pray and hear from the Holy Spirit as we had to deal with things. It was a dynamic, organic evolving church that we get a picture of and we are supposed to take it from there following the examples.

We can't say that people who attend a denominational church and are attempting to follow scriptural pattern of how to be an active assembly is not accepted by God as the local church.

We can't support that with scripture.

If one person is actively involved in an evangelical bible believing denominational church because they believe it is the scriptural thing to do, and another person not believing in denominations decides to stay home and be part of no church, and just call themselves the church, which one is more likely to be told "well done, my good and faithful servant" when Jesus comes back?

It's obvious I have a different take on this. I agree that the Bible doesn't record everything that was said by Jesus and the apostles. It also does not necessarily make it clear of what context something the apostles said was said in, which is why we try to get a handle on the apostle's normal thought processes, as well as gather together scriptures that together help us come to a goodly conclusion.

I think though, that we sometimes forget that Jesus said He must go so that the Holy Spirit could be given to us, and it is He that will counsel and comfort us in our confusion and stress, and will teach us the truth about everything. He didn't say He would be sending us a Bible for such purposes. That's not to say that the Bible isn't important to us, of course it is.

Jesus wanted us to be a united body, denominations are divisions. Whichever way we would like to justify their existence, Jesus' want for unity undermines that.

 

[Mofastus]

Are there any other members of CC that believe divisions/sects/denominations or independent churches that hold formalized religious services, are not in the best interest of the Lord Jesus?

I am only a Christian, and even on this chat/forum site to say that, is to be considered undecided, nevertheless I will remain and continue to retain only this title of "Christian".

I also believe it will only be those that have the testimony of Jesus Christ who will be clothed for the wedding feast.

I think it is very clear what Jesus said to His own people in Matthew 15:8,9 and again in Matthew 23:13 and as well in verse 15.

Honestly, I could put up a thousand more scripture references on here about such things, but would be wasting my time on it, because only God knows His own, just as only His own will come to know Him.

ty for the thread sir, for me, It's all about Jesus!!!

Let us not forget, as it is written...

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Amanuensis]

It's obvious I have a different take on this. I agree that the Bible doesn't record everything that was said by Jesus and the apostles. It also does not necessarily make it clear of what context something the apostles said was said in, which is why we try to get a handle on the apostle's normal thought processes, as well as gather together scriptures that together help us come to a goodly conclusion.

I think though, that we sometimes forget that Jesus said He must go so that the Holy Spirit could be given to us, and it is He that will counsel and comfort us in our confusion and stress, and will teach us the truth about everything. He didn't say He would be sending us a Bible for such purposes. That's not to say that the Bible isn't important to us, of course it is.

Jesus wanted us to be a united body, denominations are divisions. Whichever way we would like to justify their existence, Jesus' want for unity undermines that.

Provided someone's heart is right with God and they would be a good addition to a local fellowship and not be one who causes division and lack of unity, if they cry out to God in faith and ask Him to lead them to a good local fellowship that they can SERVE the body of Christ and be active in evangelism and find fellowship and friends to live life with, then God will lead them to one near them.

Of course if they are messed up and not going to play nice, then He won't. He does not want them to cause division and won't let them know about that good local fellowship near them.

So even though I want to say that there is a good local fellowship near most people, I don't think some people should be going to it. That body of believers doesn't need that grief. LOL.

 

[Amanuensis]

There's nothing recorded on what Jesus did at the synagogues on the Sabbaths prior to He starting His ministry. And there's no reference to Him attending anything like regimented worship services that are prevalent in the various denominational and non-denominational religious institutions. Also, at the incident Luke is referring to, He told the Jews that God is not interested in their religious shenanigans. They, being the hypocrites they were, of course took offence at that, and tried to kill Him.

If it says "as was His custom" then it must be in reference to before he started his ministry, because this incident WAS the start of Jesus ministry. He was baptised in Jordan the Spirit came upon him in the bodily shape of a dove. He was lead by the Spirit in the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. He came out of the wilderness in the Power of the Spirit and went into the Synagogue 'As was his custom" before all this, before the baptism at Jordan. And He read the prophesy of Isaiah saying "The Spirit has sent me... " And thus his ministry began.

Now I don't think Jesus going to synagogue as custom all of his life is relative to how we attend church or worship in the NT church but He certainly did attend Synagogue as a custom before he began His ministry.

 

[arthurfleminger]

One thing is for sure in my family, for my extended family members who quit going to church on a regular basis, none of their children went either. What's even worse and alarming is that these children all have become 'Nones' no religion at all and no interest in Christ or Christianity. Potentially lost souls.

They are obviously following the lead, the examples that their elders set for them. The children have become completely secular, of the world and for the world. They are satisfied with what the world has to offer and they have no need for God. When asked about the religion of their parents, their response is simple, "We grew up in a nonreligious household".

The fastest growing religious group in America is the 'Nones', their numbers have more than doubled in a decade, to nearly 30 million. Fastest-growing religious group: `None' (religionnewsblog.com)

Is America becoming secular, YOU BET IT IS. For the first time since the late 1930s, fewer than half of Americans say they belong to a church, synagogue or mosque, according to a new report from Gallup. Poll: Less Than Half of Americans Belong to House of Worship | Time

You know that less than 1/2 Christians attend church anymore, common sense. See how Church attendance doubles at Christmas and Easter, and that doesn't even take into account those that don't even bother on those days.

Funny how all Christians want to spend all eternity with God in heaven, but so few have any time for God in the here and now.

We, as parents, have no greater obligation than to set our children on a path toward Jesus and salvation. We do that by example.

 

[JohnDB]

nothing recorded on what Jesus did at the synagogues on the Sabbaths prior to He starting His ministry. And there's no reference to Him attending anything like regimented worship services that are prevalent in the various denominational and

I find it absolutely fascinating that you are seeking to change the plain meaning of scripture to suit your personal desires WHILE quoting them at the same time.

Did it ever occur to you to conform to God's desires and wants instead of your own?

 

[arthurfleminger]

There's nothing recorded on what Jesus did at the synagogues on the Sabbaths prior to He starting His ministry. And there's no reference to Him attending anything like regimented worship services that are prevalent in the various denominational and non-denominational religious institutions. Also, at the incident Luke is referring to, He told the Jews that God is not interested in their religious shenanigans. They, being the hypocrites they were, of course took offence at that, and tried to kill Him.

Your ignorance of Scripture is blatant, Luke 4:16 Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus observed the Passover rites of the Jewish religion, in fact Jesus observed the Passover meal with His disciples before He was crucified.

 

[JohnDB]

Your ignorance of Scripture is blatant, Luke 4:16 Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus observed the Passover rites of the Jewish religion, in fact Jesus observed the Passover meal with His disciples before He was crucified.

There's even more to this story....

Getting to read scripture at Synagogue on the Sabbath required regular attendance.
These schedules of who was going to read what and when were created years in advance. The person who read was to then tell what that scripture meant to them personally....then it would be discussed.
This was the normal routine that every Synagogue followed. Copies of these lists exist to this day. People did not choose their own scripture...the Synagogue Leader did to ensure ALL of the scriptures were read.

The "happenstance " and coincidences are just beyond measure with Jesus's life.

 

[Beckie]

There's nothing recorded on what Jesus did at the synagogues on the Sabbaths prior to He starting His ministry. And there's no reference to Him attending anything like regimented worship services that are prevalent in the various denominational and non-denominational religious institutions. Also, at the incident Luke is referring to, He told the Jews that God is not interested in their religious shenanigans. They, being the hypocrites they were, of course took offence at that, and tried to kill Him.

Guess there is now a new denomination = antidenomation cool name . as in my way is correct yours is not. Anti pastors anti music. antic teachers anti bishops anti the Word sound like antichrist to me ya know the Jesus is the Word ...

 

[arthurfleminger]

Your ignorance of Scripture is blatant, Luke 4:16 Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

Scripture clearly tells us that Jesus observed the Passover rites of the Jewish religion, in fact Jesus observed the Passover meal with His disciples before He was crucified.

More examples of Jesus following the Jewish rites of Synagogue, it was His custom:

Jesus Presented at the Temple Luke Cha 22
And when eight days were completed so that it was time for His circumcision, He was also named Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. And when the days for [b]their purification according to the Law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (as it is written in the Law of the Lord: “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what has been stated in the Law of the Lord: “A pair of turtledoves or two young doves.”

The Boy Jesus at the Temple
Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “DIDN'T YOU KNOW I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE?"


In fact, Jesus was involved with Temple worship all His life, as was His custom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I am only a Christian, and even on this chat/forum site to say that, is to be considered undecided, nevertheless I will remain and continue to retain only this title of "Christian".

I also believe it will only be those that have the testimony of Jesus Christ who will be clothed for the wedding feast.

I think it is very clear what Jesus said to His own people in Matthew 15:8,9 and again in Matthew 23:13 and as well in verse 15.

Honestly, I could put up a thousand more scripture references on here about such things, but would be wasting my time on it, because only God knows His own, just as only His own will come to know Him.

ty for the thread sir, for me, It's all about Jesus!!!

Let us not forget, as it is written...

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Absolutely, and thank you. Many are called, but only a few, not many, will be chosen. Sadly, most are caught up in their own pride and religious self-righteousness, they can't see the doom that's before them. But it was the same with the Jews. And so it's being repeated, as we were forewarned it would be, with the Gentiles that claim to be Christian/Christ's followers yet obviously aren't.