Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[FreeGrace2]

Free Grace, I updated my signature with this passage, and it is highly relevant imo. 2 Pet 1:5-11

"Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

So, according to this passage, we are commanded to add "virtue, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, kindness and love" to faith. And "if you do these things, you will never stumble". What is the implication?

The implication is that those who DO add to their faith the list that Peter gave, will receive an ABUNDANT ENTRANCE into the kingdom.

Do you understand the difference between just an entrance vs an abundant entrance? Or not?

iow, those who do add the list to faith will be rewarded by an abundant entrance.

As also an article I quoted earlier on said, if we don't do these things, then we will stumble.

Yes, we will. We lose eternal reward because of NOT adding to our faith the list that Peter gave.

And none of this has anything to do with getting saved.

If you believe stumble refers only to loss of rewards, I don't agree

That's your choice, but Jesus very clearly taught eternal security, nonetheless.

but I don't think we're going to change each other's minds.

The only thing that can change minds is first having an open mind, and then reading Scripture.

For myself, I want to practice what St. Peter the Apostle says here. I believe this passage strongly supports Conditional Security: it shows us how we will never stumble.

I think it is sad that you misunderstand "stumble" for losing salvation, especially because of what Jesus said so very clearly in John 10:28.

Other translations have "make every effort to add to your faith virtue ... perseverance ... love" in verse 5 and "make every effort to confirm your calling and election" in verse 10. We can confirm our calling and election by adding these qualities and virtues to Faith. How do you understand the verse that says, "be diligent to make your call and election sure"?.

To "make your call and election sure" means to confirm it. It doesn't mean to gain the call and election.

One confirms what is already there. Like plane tickets, etc.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson, Agreed.

Free Grace, I updated my signature with this passage, and it is highly relevant imo. 2 Pet 1:5-11

"Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

So, according to this passage, we are commanded to add "virtue, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, kindness and love" to faith. And "if you do these things, you will never stumble". What is the implication? As also an article I quoted earlier on said, if we don't do these things, then we will stumble. If you believe stumble refers only to loss of rewards, I don't agree, but I don't think we're going to change each other's minds. For myself, I want to practice what St. Peter the Apostle says here. I believe this passage strongly supports Conditional Security: it shows us how we will never stumble. Other translations have "make every effort to add to your faith virtue ... perseverance ... love" in verse 5 and "make every effort to confirm your calling and election" in verse 10. We can confirm our calling and election by adding these qualities and virtues to Faith. How do you understand the verse that says, "be diligent to make your call and election sure"?

God Bless.

Amen, God bless you friend

 

[crossnote]

Not sure I understand you...but, Jesus is God.

John 8;58

I was just fishing for a reason why you disagreed with post #1303, that's all. Maybe I could clarify myself.

 

[Jackson123]

The implication is that those who DO add to their faith the list that Peter gave, will receive an ABUNDANT ENTRANCE into the kingdom.

You don't need to add anything to your faith

If your faith real it will bear fruit of loving work

If your faith not bear fruit than it is fake faith and will be cut, trown to eternal fire exactly like Jesus say in john 15

 

[Jackson123]

8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Is not inherit the kingdom mean go to heaven?
I don't think so
It is wear not inherit kingdom mean go to heaven
If so, Paul will explain that plainly

How about inherit also mean go to heaven?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Correct me if I misunderstood you
Base on your statement I believe you think faith mean ok to murder as long as you believe Jesus as God you save
Am I correct?

I am not going to stoop that low to give you an answer

let me guess, you think you can sin certain sins and you are still saved correct?

 

[Jackson123]

I am not going to stoop that low to give you an answer

let me guess, you think you can sin certain sins and you are still saved correct?

What make you think that way?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The implication is that those who DO add to their faith the list that Peter gave, will receive an ABUNDANT ENTRANCE into the kingdom.

You don't need to add anything to your faith

For an "ABUNDANT ENTRANCE" into the kingdom, YES, you Do.

Apparently you don't understand my statement, nor the verse.

If your faith real it will bear fruit of loving work

No, that's what the commandments are for; for believers to obey.

Show me the verse that says bearing fruit is guaranteed or automatic, as you opine.

If your faith not bear fruit than it is fake faith

No, James said it is a barren or unproductive faith.

and will be cut, trown to eternal fire exactly like Jesus say in john 15

NO verse says what you keep repeating. You are simply giving your own opinion without any regard for the cultural context of what Jesus said.

 

[FreeGrace2]

How about inherit also mean go to heaven?

How about NOT mean that. Did you read the 3 parallel passages? You should have.

 

[Jackson123]

The implication is that those who DO add to their faith the list that Peter gave, will receive an ABUNDANT ENTRANCE into the kingdom.

What is abundant entrance
What verse have word "abundant entrance"

Show me the verse that says bearing fruit is guaranteed or automatic, as you opine.

John 15:5

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

I will continue when I am finish do something

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The implication is that those who DO add to their faith the list that Peter gave, will receive an ABUNDANT ENTRANCE into the kingdom.

What is abundant entrance

I've already told you a number of times. It is some of the eternal reward that believers may earn.

What verse have word "abundant entrance"
John 15:5

nope. Not that one. 2 Pet 1:10

Your questions demonstrate that you haven't been taught anything about eternal reward. How sad. You should change pastors, or whoever you've been "learning" under.

 

[Jackson123]

[QUOTiE="FreeGrace2, post: 4868190, member: 304922"]No, that's what the commandments are for; for believers to obey.[/QUOTE]

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

The command is not to bear fruit
The command is ti remain in Him, bear fruit is a result

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What make you think that way?

Because all sin is equal. James said if you stumble in one area you are guilty of all

Your quick to judge a certain sin. You can;t judge them without judging your own.

 

[Jackson123]

I've already told you a number of times. It is some of the eternal reward that believers may earn.

As far as I know reward depend how good of your ministry
You are the builder, you build a building if the fire come and the building not burn you get reward
If your building burn you still go to heaven but through flame

In this case your building not you burn

In john 15 Jesus talking about different screnario, not the same as Paul

Jesus talking about branch,

Branch in this analogy equal builder in Paul analogy, not building

Branch that not bear the fruit will be cut trown into fire
Builder on Paul analogy not trown into fire, escape from fire but through flame

Different case, different punishment

Trown into fire is hell
Trough flame but escape is through hell but escape, not into hell.
The best way is the building also from gold, not burn on fire

Say you are missionary on Muslim country
You preach among Muslim
100 people convert
Than persecution come
70 denied Jesus
Those 70 are burn, not you because you not denied but you cry for those 70
You save escape from fire but sad/trough flame

What happen when you in Him and He in you
This is the outcome

Matt 25
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Jesus in you make you become loving person helping the needy
Not because you are good, you bear the fruit not produce the fruit
Jesus the producer that why salvation by faith not by work, because that good work not from you, it is produce by Jesus in you

What happen if your faith, Jesus not in you

42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Than into eternal fire or hell

 

[peldom10]

I was just fishing for a reason why you disagreed with post #1303, that's all. Maybe I could clarify myself.

Because 1303 suggest there is a difference of God and Christ.
There is not...they are the same. With manifestations in different places and same places at the same time.
Witness Christs' baptism. Witness Christ conversation with God on the cross, etc.

That division is necessary because scriptures says...no one has seen God and if they did they must surely die. So the exact under different name and physical body vs spirit body allows for that without vio;ation.

 

[Jackson123]

Because all sin is equal. James said if you stumble in one area you are guilty of all

Your quick to judge a certain sin. You can;t judge them without judging your own.

And the wage of sin is death, hell not only losing reward but still go to heaven
That why we need to invite Jesus in so we bear fruit
Because Jesus say no fruit will be cut off and trown into hell

How sinner like me produce fruit?
Impisdible, the only we can do is let Jesus in He do the job, we bear that product
Not boasting, I am not producer, no reason to boasting

 

[crossnote]

Because 1303 suggest there is a difference of God and Christ.
There is not...they are the same. With manifestations in different places and same places at the same time.
Witness Christs' baptism. Witness Christ conversation with God on the cross, etc.

That division is necessary because scriptures says...no one has seen God and if they did they must surely die. So the exact under different name and physical body vs spirit body allows for that without vio;ation.

I don't believe I mentioned any of the above..Here is what I said

Yes just like there are more than one Jesus...

2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

And since Jesus is God, many have another Jesus by embracing another Gospel

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

All I indicated was that Paul talked about 'another Jesus' 2Cor 11:4 and 'another Gospel' Gal 1:6-9.

 

[posthuman]

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

The command is not to bear fruit
The command is ti remain in Him, bear fruit is a result

How to remain in Him?

To continue in faith
Believing He has done everything necessary to save us - seeking Him, loving Him, loving mercy and truth

 

[posthuman]

How to remain in Him?

To continue in faith
Believing He has done everything necessary to save us - seeking Him, loving Him, loving mercy and truth

We must walk the same way as we believe, or we are fools.
We should be wise.

So whether we are afraid we lose salvation, or whether we are sure we won't, we need to keep away from sin. Sin is stupid - we will live forever in Christ, righteous - were are idiots not to start living righteous in Him now, as much as we can.

Who disagrees with that? None of us!
Lets not pretend anyone does, then.

We must keep ourselves from bitterness - we must love each other

 

[Jackson123]

How to remain in Him?

To continue in faith
Believing He has done everything necessary to save us - seeking Him, loving Him, loving mercy and truth

Amien