Not By Works

[posthuman]

My position that the weekly Sabbath is a memorial to Christ's creative power is the antithesis of "Christ-less"

if sabbath is a memorial of Christ then truly sabbath is a shadow, and Christ is the reality, just as all 3 witnesses of Colossians 2, Hebrews 4 and Hebrews 8 say. those who sought to be justified by the law did not enter His rest, but Christ gives those who put their trust in Him true rest.

so on the one hand i have scripture, and on the other hand i have your private doctrines.
on the one hand i have Christ, and on the other hand i have you seeking to judge the saints over a shadow.

which is the right hand?
which is the left?

 

[posthuman]

Snacks, what you preach is heresy.

what Snacks preaches:

“And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” ~ Jesus Christ

i do not call Christ's testimony heresy.

 

[Grandpa]

"If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15 KJV
"And why call ye Me Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Grandpa]

My position that the weekly Sabbath is a memorial to Christ's creative power is the antithesis of "Christ-less"

No. He's right. Practicing a 7th day sabbath is working at the Law and is Christ-less.

Sabbath day was a shadow of what Christ would give His People.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


If you are still practicing the shadow then you don't believe what Christ has said and what He Offers.


Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


If you are working at your understanding of what the Law says then you haven't been given rest by Christ. If you give the reason for working at your understanding of the Law as Christ then you don't even believe He can give you rest from your work at the law.

You are stuck in a circular loop that only Christ can deliver you from.


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[Grandpa]

yep...another one bites the dust.

Will not ANYONE offer an explanation as to how the "many", whose "agape" turned cold, of Matthew 24:12 can be "the wicked" if "agape" is only demonstrated by happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 3:7 KJV) yet the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)???

The explanation is a work of your own imagination and what you WISH scripture says.

You misinterpret both Matthew 24:12 and 1 John 3:7 to make this dilemma that exists only in your imagination.


What you are missing is that there is no righteousness in your practicing of Law.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


If you haven't been given Rest by Christ then you haven't been given Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification or Redemption.

If you are still working at Moses Law then you haven't been given Rest. You are going about to establish your own righteousness according to the law, which is no righteousness.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

sigh...
"Licentious" means "freedom" which is what a license grants the bearer - freedom to practice that for which the unlicensed practitioner will suffer. BTW, the word for "lasciviousness" is also translated "license" and "licentious" in various versions. Split hairs all you want, but Jude was talking about the OSAS crowd turning grace into a License to Sin.

sigh

The greek proves you wrong. It does not mean freedom in its written form.

SHow some humility and man up man. the bible was not written in english. you can;t use the english definition.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

yep...another one bites the dust.

Will not ANYONE offer an explanation as to how the "many", whose "agape" turned cold, of Matthew 24:12 can be "the wicked" if "agape" is only demonstrated by happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 3:7 KJV) yet the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)???

so tell me, are we under law or grace?

You want to be under law. feel free man.

Just want to warn you. You will fail. Because NO one can keep the law as required.

 

[Snacks]

Snacks, what you preach is heresy.

You never heard of the Unmerciful Servant being fully forgiven but then winds up having that forgiveness revoked?

You never heard of the saints in Hebrews 6 who fall away beyond the ability to renew their repentance?

You never heard of the saints who "escaped the pollutions of this world" but become again entangled therein?

You never heard of the saints who were washed by the blood of the lamb, but return to the filth like the dog to his vomit and the sow to the mire?

You never heard of the "many" saints of Matthew 24 who allow iniquity to turn their agape cold, leaving them unable to endure and lost?

Take notice, brothers and sisters! Don't let surface reading, Scripture-twisting, sin-loving, law haters convince you to get stuck in the Left Ditch of License, but keep in the Path of the Just with the rest of us!

I literally quoted Jesus Christ and you say I preach heresy. You’re in serious danger of having a millstone around your neck. May everyone reading your posts pray for your salvation. I’m not joking.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I literally quoted Jesus Christ and you say I preach heresy. You’re in serious danger of having a millstone around your neck. May everyone reading your posts pray for your salvation. I’m not joking.

he most definately [reaches a different Jesus. Nor does he understand the parable he is trying to get you to buy into his view.

 

[posthuman]

i thank God that He equips the saints, that Satan would more craftily than any beast, deceive us 'if it were possible' -- but it is not possible.
i praise God for His faithfulness, for His everlasting lovingkindness and mercy towards us!
we are utterly undeserving, but in His grace He shows us compassion
this is endurance: being absolutely enamored of Him, forever, putting no confidence whatsoever in the flesh

how small we are before Him
how great He is!!

 

[Magenta]

i thank God that He equips the saints, that Satan would more craftily than any beast, deceive us 'if it were possible' -- but it is not possible.
i praise God for His faithfulness, for His everlasting lovingkindness and mercy towards us!
we are utterly undeserving, but in His grace He shows us compassion
this is endurance: being absolutely enamored of Him, forever, putting no confidence whatsoever in the flesh

how small we are before Him
how great He is!!

Behold (Then Sings My Soul)

 

[Phoneman-777]

if sabbath is a memorial of Christ then truly sabbath is a shadow,

That's funny...in his analogy, Paul says shadows point to "things to come" in the future, but here you are making Paul's shadows mean the opposite of what he says they are.

Again, the Sabbath is no "shadow of things to come", it's a memorial to Christ's creative power made at a time when sin had not yet entered the world and there was no shadow of spiritual darkness - ALL WAS LIGHT.

 

[Phoneman-777]

what Snacks preaches:

“And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” ~ Jesus Christ

i do not call Christ's testimony heresy.

The heresy he preaches to which I refer is the same heresy you and the rest of the OSAS crowd preaches: OSAS.

There's only one reason why a person is in need of a OSAS License to Sin and it's the same reason a person needs a driver's license, hunting license, fishing license, law license, medical license, etc. We all know what that is, don't we?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom you obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Practicing a 7th day sabbath is working at the Law and is Christ-less.

Wow! and you accuse me of heresy! Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments", the very commandments HE SPOKE HIMSELF at Mount Sinai, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV and Matthew 13:34-35 KJV.
O, the truth that is revealed by reading "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little", unlike those who "wrest...the Scriptures, unto their own destruction".

Sabbath day was a shadow of what Christ would give His People.
Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Why do you lump in the weekly Sabbath which memorialized Christ's creative power way back in Creation week with Paul's list of Mosaic, ceremonial, "shadows of things to come" in the future? The ceremonial Feast Days are called "sabbaths" in Leviticus 23, and point to the future work of Christ as Redeemer, while the weekly Sabbath is a memorial to Christ our Creator's work of Creation week in the past.

That's why we Conditional Salvationists don't take the OSAS crowd seriously - you guys don't have a hermeneutical consistent bone in your bodies.

If you are still practicing the shadow then you don't believe what Christ has said and what He Offers.

I keep the Sabbath because Hebrews 4:9-10 Lamsa's Peshitta says if we're resting inwardly in the finished work of Christ, we'll evidence this by resting outwardly every 7th day Sabbath from our work "as God did from His".


Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


If you are working at your understanding of what the Law says then you haven't been given rest by Christ. If you give the reason for working at your understanding of the Law as Christ then you don't even believe He can give you rest from your work at the law.

You are stuck in a circular loop that only Christ can deliver you from.


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/QUOTE]

If you're working at the law IN AN ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN SALVATION you are not resting in Christ - if you strive to keep the law because you love Jesus, you are doing what Jesus calls "unprofitable" service and "reasonable service".

It's only reasonable that if we love Christ, we'll want to stop doing those things which made necessary His death on the Cross in the first place, which begs the question: Why does the OSAS crowd so desperately want a OSAS License to Sin? We all know the answer.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The explanation is a work of your own imagination and what you WISH scripture says.

You misinterpret both Matthew 24:12 and 1 John 3:7 to make this dilemma that exists only in your imagination.

Sorry, I meant 1 John 5:3, not 3:7.

Let's see if YOU can explain how the "many" of Matthew 24:12 are not the saints:

Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to, but 1 John 5:3 KJV says "agape" is only demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments. If the "many" of Matthew 24:12 are said to possess "agape", EXPLAIN HOW THESE "MANY" CAN BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE SAINTS.

You see? These "many" who wind up lost can only be SAINTS! OSAS dies a horrible death right here, and the only thing left to do is give it a proper burial.

 

[Phoneman-777]

sigh

The greek proves you wrong. It does not mean freedom in its written form.

SHow some humility and man up man. the bible was not written in english. you can;t use the english definition.

Why is the passage translated "licentious" or "license to"? I'm not a fan of new translations, but where they get it right, I acknowledge it.

 

[Phoneman-777]

so tell me, are we under law or grace?

You want to be under law. feel free man.

Just want to warn you. You will fail. Because NO one can keep the law as required.

I'm happy to discuss this, but first, please explain how the "many" of Matthew 24:12 who wind up lost because their "agape" turned cold and dead can be sinners when "agape" is only demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) yet the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[Phoneman-777]

I literally quoted Jesus Christ and you say I preach heresy. You’re in serious danger of having a millstone around your neck. May everyone reading your posts pray for your salvation. I’m not joking.

You're a heretic not because you quote Jesus, but because you teach things that aren't Biblical like OSAS.

The concept of "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" is lost on you - you don't allow other verses which prove the saints can be lost to qualify what Jesus means in John 6:39 KJV, the mark of immature scholarship.

 

[Grandpa]

Wow! and you accuse me of heresy! Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments", the very commandments HE SPOKE HIMSELF at Mount Sinai, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV and Matthew 13:34-35 KJV.

The Lord Jesus didn't come to place people under Moses Law.

The Lord Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant and begin the New Covenant.


How is it possible to simultaneously place people under the yoke of the Law and give them Rest???

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


You can't be under a yoke of bondage and simultaneously Free in Christ.

You can't be under the Ministration of Death and the Ministration of Righteousness simultaneously.

You can't work at your "understanding" of the Law and Rest in Christ simultaneously.


Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Do you know why you haven't come to the Lord Jesus to receive Rest from your labour of working at the Law? Its because you think YOU can fulfill the Law with your own work.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.