Why did JESUS say all manner of sin and >--blasphemy<-- will be forgiven but blasphemy of the HOLY SPIRIT will not be forgiven?

[presidente]

IMO when Paul said that he Was a blasphemer he was talking about blaspheming GOD under the law which was In words like[IE] a person saying something negative about GOD out of Ignorance but hasn't rejected GOD from the heart.

Under law when they said something blasphemous against GOD It was In word like some people say that word a lot today but after a person has been filled with GOD under the New Covenant blasphemy would be from the heart and not like they did It under the Old Covenant and some believe that It would have to be a Christian to blaspheme from the heart but I'm one of those OSAS believers and IMO I don't think that that would happen,I could be wrong.

It is highly unlikely that Paul said the words that start with G and D when he blasphemed. Consider that blasphemy doesn't have to be against God only,

I Kings 21:10
and seat two men, scoundrels, before him to bear witness against him, saying, “You have blasphemed God and the king.” Then take him out, and stone him, that he may die. (NKJV)

Acts 6:13
And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

Paul apparently spoke some bad things against the church.

Acts 9
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: ...


We do not know what he said about the Son of Man, but I don't believe He spoke against the Holy Spirit because he found forgiveness.


And where did Jesus said that His warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit had to be 'from the heart' or something along those lines? Some say it has to be done with knowledge for the speaker to be guilty, but does anyone really think the Pharisees in Matthew 12 really knew and believed that Jesus was the Son of God or understood that He was casting out demons by the Holy Spirit?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

What does that have to do with the points either of us made?



Possessed by Whom? The earth is the LORD's and the fulness thereof. Her desire would always be for her husband. Where is she 'possessed' by someone in the passage? What evidence is there that she was demonized? She was deceived.


Who is the 'we' that 'knows' this. Why should I or anyone else believe this? Do you know of any other Christian in history who believed or taught that idea?

If someone makes up a lie, do you think they are creating a demon spirit ex nihilo? Do you think the serpent created demons?

Well, you must know what a spirit is in order to figure out what an evil spirit is.

She was possessed by Satan of course. Her desire being for one man, her husband, is just part of how God commanded her to break the spell (and the defiance of this command for women is a sign of being in the service of Satan). Genesis 3:6 shows the first demonic possession, right after the Three Lies are cast into her by the serpent her mind is bent and she looks at everything all wrong even though the Fall has not actually occurred yet. As the Lies run around in her mind she eats from the tree forbidden.

No, if someone lies then they are just doing the bidding of the Devil, serving in his spiritual kingdom, as per the verse "when the Devil speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies."
Yes, the serpent is the one called Satan and Devil, the Three Lies are the Original Sin and also are the power of the demons, and he will also never be forgiven for doing this.

 

[presidente]

Well, you must know what a spirit is in order to figure out what an evil spirit is.

She was possessed by Satan of course. Her desire being for one man, her husband, is just part of how God commanded her to break the spell (and the defiance of this command for women is a sign of being in the service of Satan). Genesis 3:6 shows the first demonic possession, right after the Three Lies are cast into her by the serpent her mind is bent and she looks at everything all wrong even though the Fall has not actually occurred yet. As the Lies run around in her mind she eats from the tree forbidden.

No, if someone lies then they are just doing the bidding of the Devil, serving in his spiritual kingdom, as per the verse "when the Devil speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies."
Yes, the serpent is the one called Satan and Devil, the Three Lies are the Original Sin and also are the power of the demons, and he will also never be forgiven for doing this.

Honestly, it sounds like you are just making stuff up.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Honestly, it sounds like you are just making stuff up.

By all means, read the Bible and see for yourself.

 

[presidente]

By all means, read the Bible and see for yourself.

This is after reading the Bible and your take on it. Does anyone else share your interpretations?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

This is after reading the Bible and your take on it. Does anyone else share your interpretations?

It's not my interpretation, but I just merely believe what Moses, John, and Jesus either said or wrote about the subject.

 

[presidente]

It's not my interpretation, but I just merely believe what Moses, John, and Jesus either said or wrote about the subject.

Your posts seem to me to be a bit like religious isea salad.

Do you think a demon is a sentient spiritual being?

Why would you say Eve was 'possesse'? Based on what?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Your posts seem to me to be a bit like religious isea salad.

Do you think a demon is a sentient spiritual being?

Why would you say Eve was 'possesse'? Based on what?

I do not know what an isea salad is, I have never even heard of it.

Well demons are spirits of course, but that's where it is important to know what a spirit is. Whether they are sentient I would say no because Satan's kingdom cannot fight itself.

We know the woman was possessed because immediately after Satan forges the Three Lies on his tongue, breaking his breath of life and the Spirit of truth in the process, and casts them at the woman, then we see her thoughts in Genesis 3:6. We see when he casts the First Lie that the woman repeats back the truth that God told her, but after all Three Lies are told and taken all together, then her mind is totally overrun. The Lies are bouncing around in her mind and she is thinking then that the fruit is a fruit to be desired, a fruit that will make her wise. Since she believes the Lies in her mind this is what gets her to eat the fruit, and not only eat it, but give to the man also, effectively murdering him.

 

[presidente]

I do not know what an isea salad is, I have never even heard of it.

Oops. Those buttons on a phone aren't big enough for a male thumb. I meant 'idea salad.' There seems to be little logical connection between one thought and another.

Well demons are spirits of course, but that's where it is important to know what a spirit is. Whether they are sentient I would say no because Satan's kingdom cannot fight itself.

Sentient as in conscious or self-aware. I mean beings that think. What does that have to do with Satan's kingdom fighting itself?

We know the woman was possessed because immediately after Satan forges the Three Lies on his tongue, breaking his breath of life and the Spirit of truth in the process,

_His_ breath of life? Do you think Satan had the breath of life? Or do you mean the breath of life in Eve? The passage doesn't mention the breath of life being broken. And it certainly says nothing about the Spirit of truth being broken. You should be careful with that sort of thing, especially considering we are talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

and casts them at the woman, then we see her thoughts in Genesis 3:6. We see when he casts the First Lie that the woman repeats back the truth that God told her, but after all Three Lies are told and taken all together, then her mind is totally overrun.

Why would you associate this with being 'possessed'?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Oops. Those buttons on a phone aren't big enough for a male thumb. I meant 'idea salad.' There seems to be little logical connection between one thought and another.



Sentient as in conscious or self-aware. I mean beings that think. What does that have to do with Satan's kingdom fighting itself?



_His_ breath of life? Do you think Satan had the breath of life? Or do you mean the breath of life in Eve? The passage doesn't mention the breath of life being broken. And it certainly says nothing about the Spirit of truth being broken. You should be careful with that sort of thing, especially considering we are talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.



Why would you associate this with being 'possessed'?

In terms of sentience; well that's where Satan's kingdom being unable to fight itself comes into play. Since the demons have to serve Satan's kingdom and they cannot ever do anything else, this is why I would say no, they are not sentient.

Yes, Satan has the breath of life, every living creature which God made has the breath of life, it is the spirit, and everything that has the breath of life is a living soul.

Well remember that Lord Jesus says bluntly that Satan is the father of lies and that he did not abide in the truth. Remember, God made everything perfect, and he made everything by his Word, the Truth, and his Spirit. When Satan committed the Original Sin he broke the Spirit of truth, and his own breath of life, by rending it into Three Lies, literally into three evil spirits, three evil breaths. When the woman became his first possession by believing the Lies, then was the spiritual kingdom of the Devil created.

How he adds creations to his fallen kingdom is by deceiving them and corrupting them. In other words, the Devil possesses already existing creations by the power of the Lies. Even the word possession implies an owner. In Satan's kingdom he is the owner of all who believe and love the lies. To the inverse, all that love the truth are owned by God and in God's spiritual kingdom. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free" carries a lot more significance than just being a very cool quote.

 

[Rondonmon]

It's OK to warn folks to flee Benny Hinn.

Keep mocking the Holy Spirits work. People like you make me SMH. You do nit even understand the works of the Holy Spirit. I have been preaching 37 years, I see your types over and over again.

 

[Runningman]

It doesn’t look like the Pharisees actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It looks like they danced to the edge of destruction then tiptoed back to safety.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Notice Jesus said that blasphemous words spoken against the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be forgiven. The Pharisees didn’t mention anyone other than Beelzebub, they didn’t level slanderous words against the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

What Jesus said seems like a warning to me. As far as I can tell, the Pharisees wouldn’t knowingly or intentionally blaspheme God and I think they were careful to not do that, but they played with fire anyway because they were enemies with Jesus. They didn’t understand who Jesus is.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

This is a great question; one that has always caused me to wonder myself.

One thing is sure, which is that to sin against Christ has unique consequences, as He died for our sins (which includes those who killed Him).

Acts 22:7-8 NLT - "I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?' "'Who are you, lord?' I asked. "And the voice replied, 'I am Jesus the Nazarene, the one you are persecuting."

We can persecute Christ, yet later be taught by Him face to face, as was the case with Paul.

The Holy Spirit did not die for our sins. And unfortunately, that's all I have to offer on the topic. This is a great question.

God only paid the full penalty (God is eternal=paid a full eternity in the lake of fire) for God's elect. He did not pay the full penalty for the nonelects.
"but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. " this verse talks about only the nonelects. Nonelects reject the gospel. God gives the nonelects over to their sinful desires. Conscience gets seared=right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right.

Matthew 24:12-13
King James Version

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many (nonelects don't got God's agape love) shall wax cold.
13 But he (all of God's elects) that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

God is love.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Keep mocking the Holy Spirits work. People like you make me SMH. You do not even understand the works of the Holy Spirit. I have been preaching 37 years, I see your types over and over again.

If you've been preaching for 37 years, it then, should be obvious that Evmur is not mocking the Holy Spirit, but Benny Hinn (if anything). The truth is, however, that Benny has been proven a false (everything) over and over again.

 

[presidente]

It doesn’t look like the Pharisees actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It looks like they danced to the edge of destruction then tiptoed back to safety.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Notice Jesus said that blasphemous words spoken against the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be forgiven. The Pharisees didn’t mention anyone other than Beelzebub, they didn’t level slanderous words against the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

What Jesus said seems like a warning to me. As far as I can tell, the Pharisees wouldn’t knowingly or intentionally blaspheme God and I think they were careful to not do that, but they played with fire anyway because they were enemies with Jesus. They didn’t understand who Jesus is.

I suppose it is up to God to judge whether the Pharisees Jesus was addressing blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

But consider this,
1. jesus cast out demons by the Holy Spirit.
2. The Pharisees accjused the Spiri by which Jesus cast out demons of being Beelzebub.

Jesus also did not say that one had to intentionally blaspheme the Holy Spirit to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. He did not say that one had to know Who Jesus is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Just logically, it is possible for someone to speak evil words against the Holy Spirit without understanding much about Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

 

[presidente]

God only paid the full penalty (God is eternal=paid a full eternity in the lake of fire) for God's elect. He did not pay the full penalty for the nonelects.
"but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. " this verse talks about only the nonelects. Nonelects reject the gospel. God gives the nonelects over to their sinful desires. Conscience gets seared=right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right.

If that is the case, then through care, reverence, or what appears to be happenstance, it will not happen that the elect will speak ill o the Holy Spirit. If that is the case, then the elect will not see someone doing a work by the power of the Spirit, then accuse the Spirit of being a Devil. And then one could conclude that even the staunchest religious Calvinist who does so is not part of the elect.

But blaspheming the Holy Spirit does __not mean__ rejecting the Gospel, or else Paul would have been guilty of it.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

This sounds like a great perspective. Thank you.

"Everything in existance in time is of God"

If you have Scripture that says this, I'd love to see it. I'll add it to my collection of verses that defies the concept of "free will."

Thanks!

John 1: 3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Eph 4: 4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Eph 3: 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven is named,

All who are baptized in the Name of the Father are predestined to repent of their sins and turn to God's plan for the forgiveness of sins through belief and trust in Jesus' death. When that happens, we are being baptized in the Name of the Son. When that happens, we are then perfected when we receive the baptism in the Name of the Father's Holy Spirit who fills our hearts with the divine love necessary to obey the Spirit of the Law since we fail in trying to obey the letter of the Law. In essence, when all thoughts and actions are motivated by this divine love, both the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law are being obeyed. There is one baptism and that is " in the name of the Father" because once that happens, in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit will follow. We are part of the Father's family when we are baptized in His name , trust in Jesus, and receive His Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 15: 27-28 For He ( the Father ) hath put all things under His ( the Son ) feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted who did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

This verse clearly states that at the end Christ, in all His Glory, will have delivered up the kingdom to God ( the Father ), destroyed all enemies, and have all things subdued unto Him ( the Son is God of all creation ) , but even in all His Glory, the Son is subject to the Father which means that the Father is THE God of All and His Spirit will be in all who will reside in Heaven.

I hope this helps.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

John 1: 3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Eph 4: 4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Eph 3: 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven is named,

All who are baptized in the Name of the Father are predestined to repent of their sins and turn to God's plan for the forgiveness of sins through belief and trust in Jesus' death. When that happens, we are being baptized in the Name of the Son. When that happens, we are then perfected when we receive the baptism in the Name of the Father's Holy Spirit who fills our hearts with the divine love necessary to obey the Spirit of the Law since we fail in trying to obey the letter of the Law. In essence, when all thoughts and actions are motivated by this divine love, both the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law are being obeyed. There is one baptism and that is " in the name of the Father" because once that happens, in the name of the Son and in the name of the Holy Spirit will follow. We are part of the Father's family when we are baptized in His name , trust in Jesus, and receive His Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 15: 27-28 For He ( the Father ) hath put all things under His ( the Son ) feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted who did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

This verse clearly states that at the end Christ, in all His Glory, will have delivered up the kingdom to God ( the Father ), destroyed all enemies, and have all things subdued unto Him ( the Son is God of all creation ) , but even in all His Glory, the Son is subject to the Father which means that the Father is THE God of All and His Spirit will be in all who will reside in Heaven.

I hope this helps.

It's a little hard to follow compared to the initial statement, but that's cool.

Just curious as to why you wouldn't add Circumcision of Heart to what you've written above? Without it, there is no Salvation/Eternal Life.

 

[Runningman]

I suppose it is up to God to judge whether the Pharisees Jesus was addressing blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

But consider this,
1. jesus cast out demons by the Holy Spirit.
2. The Pharisees accjused the Spiri by which Jesus cast out demons of being Beelzebub.

Jesus also did not say that one had to intentionally blaspheme the Holy Spirit to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. He did not say that one had to know Who Jesus is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Just logically, it is possible for someone to speak evil words against the Holy Spirit without understanding much about Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

Yeah this is a judgement call for God I guess, but I just don’t see where they actually directed an attack at the Holy Spirit.

Seems like it’s just another unclear passage open to interpretation.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

great topic!

pharisees claim Jesus performed miracles by the power of satan. jesus explains it's by the Holy Spirit and by equaling the Holy Spirit to satan is the unforgivable sin of Blaspheming. we are then told we can blaspheme everything else but never the Holy Spirit. so what is so unique about the Spirit of God that you cannot do evil towards (not that anyone would want to)? but there has to be a specific reason that we are not being told. God forgives us of so many things even cursing Him. But His Spirit is completely off limits. i think this mystery is something very intriguing. i suppose we will never know until we get to Heaven.