Is There A 'Need' For supernatural abilities Today?

[The_Watchers_2017]

All that from... I left Trophimus sick at Miletus?

All we can know is that he left Trophimus sick at Miletus. That's it. It would be wrong to say anything about Paul's prayers for Trophimus since nothing like that is mentioned.

i am using commentary from Dr. Jim Bradford, theologian Sam Storm, and few others on the topic.

 

[Amanuensis]

But Paul was a miracle-worker and one would expect that Trophimus would have been instantly healed. Which means that Paul's miracles were for the propagation of the Gospel, not necessarily for healing sick Christians (including Timothy, his son in the faith). The "signs of an apostle" were given to convince unbelievers that the Gospel had the power of God behind it.

And you will also notice that the apostles rarely -- if ever -- mentioned their miracle-working powers. They certainly did not focus on them. The focus was always on Christ and Him crucified, risen, and ascended. On the Gospel itself.

Trophimus could pray for himself in Jesus Name. Maybe he did. Maybe he was healed.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Trophimus could pray for himself in Jesus Name. Maybe he did. Maybe he was healed.

but why would Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament, known for his preaching, teaching, Gifts of the Spirit, not heal Trophimus who was a close companion for 7 years?

 

[Amanuensis]

some would claim that Paul's Gift of Healing had ended by then because this was near the end of the Book of Acts. but after this, we do read that Paul was able to pray for Epaphroditus who was deathly sick and God healed him.

There is no reason to think that Paul was not able to pray for the sick until the day he died. Praying for the sick was never applied to everyone. Only one man was healed at the pool of Bethsaida by Jesus when there were so many there the man could not get in the water fast enough before others beat him too it.
The lame man who was healed by Peter was just one of the many who were there begging daily. We don't need to have all the children in ST Judes healed in order to believe in divine healing by faith.

Praying for the sick and the sick being healed is a gift for the church until Jesus comes again. It never stopped. Church history includes a continuous thread of accounts.

 

[Amanuensis]

but why would Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament, known for his preaching, teaching, Gifts of the Spirit, not heal Trophimus who was a close companion for 7 years?

Why was only one man healed at the pool of Bethsaida by Jesus when there were many sick?

Praying for the sick in faith is something we do whether we always see instant results or not. We don't ask why, we just believe and keep doing it.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Why was only one man healed at the pool of Bethsaida by Jesus when there were many sick?

Praying for the sick in faith is something we do whether we always see instant results or not. We don't ask why, we just believe and keep doing it.

agreed!

and that is what i was saying when everyone read if God chooses to heal or not, even when we do it as the Bible tells us how to do it, like i was creating some false doctrine.

 

[Amanuensis]

but why would Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament, known for his preaching, teaching, Gifts of the Spirit, not heal Trophimus who was a close companion for 7 years?

Luke wrote more words in the NT actually.

Paul could not heal anyone. It was always faith in the name of Jesus. Maybe Trophimus doubted? I don't know. One has no more right to say that Paul tried and couldn't than to say that Trophimus doubted. We don't know if there even was a prayer.

 

[Thewatchman]

"

Goal Of The Gifts​

After our Lord Rose from the dead, and before He Ascended into Heaven, He
Commissioned His apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel
(Mark_16:15). Those who believed the gospel and were baptized would be
saved (v. 16), and empowered with certain supernatural abilities, known as
spiritual gifts:

“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall​

they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; “They shall​

take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt​

them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”​

(Mark_16:17,18)...​

While the early disciples indeed displayed nearly all of these gifts, it is obvious
to most Christians that believers today no longer possess these supernatural
powers. We believe that this is because these gifts uniquely qualified those
saints to preach the gospel safely during the Great Tribulation, but that the
coming of the Tribulation was put “on hold” with the introduction of the
dispensation of Grace.

The purpose of this article will be to show how these gifts will equip the saints
to meet the unique challenges that will be present in the Tribulation period.
In so doing, we also intend to demonstrate how in the absence of these unique
challenges, there is no need for these gifts in the present dispensation...

...brief study is not meant to be...exhaustive...we rather trust​

that the reader will add these few thoughts to the arsenal of​

spiritual weaponry with which we must equip ourselves...​

"
(R Kurth)

FULL study:
The Goal Of The Gifts

View attachment 241267

GRACE And Peace...

The gifts are still active today. The problem is not with God not allowing the gifts to flow but it is with the Luke Worm church of today. Why would God allow the Holy Spirit to work in a church that did not preach His word, that would allow gays, porn addicted people, adulterers, ect in there churches without calling them out on their sin. The same is true about a church that would teach false doctrine like the rapture, the dead are raised from the grave in flesh bodies, woman can not be on the church board, A divorced person can not hold a position of ministry . . .

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Luke wrote more words in the NT actually.

Paul could not heal anyone. It was always faith in the name of Jesus. Maybe Trophimus doubted? I don't know. One has no more right to say that Paul tried and couldn't than to say that Trophimus doubted. We don't know if there even was a prayer.

tough pill to swallow thinking Paul could mention leaving someone sick without him trying to at least pray for that person.

 

[Amanuensis]

The gifts are still active today. The problem is not with God not allowing the gifts to flow but it is with the Luke Worm church of today. Why would God allow the Holy Spirit to work in a church that did not preach His word, that would allow gays, porn addicted people, adulterers, ect in there churches without calling them out on their sin. The same is true about a church that would teach false doctrine like the rapture, the dead are raised from the grave in flesh bodies, woman can not be on the church board, A divorced person can not hold a position of ministry . . .

Are you familiar with the example charismatic church used in the scriptures? The church at Corinth? Yeah.. that's right.

 

[Thewatchman]

Luke wrote more words in the NT actually.

Paul could not heal anyone. It was always faith in the name of Jesus. Maybe Trophimus doubted? I don't know. One has no more right to say that Paul tried and couldn't than to say that Trophimus doubted. We don't know if there even was a prayer.

I thank The Watcher has said that He was misunderstood or misspoke and that we should take him at his word. I know that I have said thing wrong that came out badly and misenderstood not one of us is perfect.

 

[Amanuensis]

tough pill to swallow thinking Paul could mention leaving someone sick without him trying to at least pray for that person.

He might have been one breath from death, Paul prayed for him and he recovered, but was still too weak to travel.

There are so many possible scenarios none of which we can know. Maybe it was seasonal allergies and Paul didn't even think it was something to pray about, just get over it. We could go on all day. And it would be just us guessing. So I just leave it alone and refuse to say anything about Paul praying for him.

You say that it is a tough pill to swallow thinking Paul could leave him sick without praying, but I don't see why that has to be a conclusion. No decision needs to be made about what Paul prayed or didn't pray. It goes against my conscience to assume things happened that I have no evidence to support. That would be a tougher pill to swallow.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

He might have been one breath from death, Paul prayed for him and he recovered, but was still too weak to travel.

There are so many possible scenarios none of which we can know. Maybe it was seasonal allergies and Paul didn't even think it was something to pray about, just get over it. We could go on all day. And it would be just us guessing. So I just leave it alone and refuse to say anything about Paul praying for him.

You say that it is a tough pill to swallow thinking Paul could leave him sick without praying, but I don't see why that has to be a conclusion. No decision needs to be made about what Paul prayed or didn't pray. It goes against my conscience to assume things happened that I have no evidence to support. That would be a tougher pill to swallow.

agreed!

i am merely thinking that Paul is the solo person of the Bible who explained each Gift of the Spirit. that would make us believe he was good at them and saw amazing results from them. and to think he would not pray for someone who traveled with him, was part of his ministry when he knew he was sick, just doesn't seem to explain the person we know called Paul.

 

[Thewatchman]

Are you familiar with the example charismatic church used in the scriptures? The church at Corinth? Yeah.. that's right.

I sure am that is the church Paul wrote this to:
1st Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
What is the Yeah.. that's right all about Did I say something that offended you?

 

[Amanuensis]

I sure am that is the church Paul wrote this to:
1st Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
What is the Yeah.. that's right all about Did I say something that offended you?

I was making a point that they had a lot of issues that needed perfecting and yet there were gifts of the Spirit operating. You had a list of examples of bad things in a church in your post. Corinth was as bad as it gets. They had people justifying fornication with prostitutes among other extremes that had to be corrected and yet in the midst of all that there were real gifts in operation. Not that the fornicators were operating in the gifts of the Spirit but the same church where these things were going on also had Spiritual gifts. God does not limit the gifts to only churches that have it all together and no carnal people among them.
And I am not trying to argue. Just adding to the conversation.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I sure am that is the church Paul wrote this to:
1st Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Amen!

 

[Jackson123]

Every day Muslim in Indonesia come to Christ because of miracle you talk to th about Jesus s year they not listen one healing more than years preaching

 

[JTB]

Trophimus could pray for himself in Jesus Name. Maybe he did. Maybe he was healed.

I'm not aware of anyone healing themselves. Usually the gifts are thru you to someone else. The only exception I'm aware of is what we call 'personal tongues', which is the only gift that edifies the user.

 

[JTB]

Are you familiar with the example charismatic church used in the scriptures? The church at Corinth? Yeah.. that's right.

The church at Corinth was given correction, not an edict to cease. In fact they were specifically instructed NOT to forbid the tongue they were abusing. Don't stop, just do it correctly.

 

[Amanuensis]

I'm not aware of anyone healing themselves. Usually the gifts are thru you to someone else. The only exception I'm aware of is what we call 'personal tongues', which is the only gift that edifies the user.

Be it according to your Faith. These signs shall follow them that believe.