latter Rain

[AnandaHya]

found it interesting. what are your thoughts?

"Bible Scholars and the Latter Rain
It is important to note that a number of Bible scholars also support the idea of a second outpouring. Charles Wesley interpreted James 5:7, saying, "The husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit - Which will recompense his labour and patience. Till he receives the former rain - Immediately after sowing. And the latter - Before the harvest." Wesley wrote, "the latter" rain came "before the harvest" (or the end of the age).

Go to Crosswalk.com, click on "study helps" and research this yourself. Look at Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's commentary on James 5:7. They explained: "The early rain fell at sowing time, about November or December; the latter rain, about March or April, to mature the grain for harvest. The latter rain that shall precede the coming spiritual harvest, will probably be another Pentecost-like effusion of the Holy Ghost" (Crosswalk.com).

This isn't Charismatic chaos! It New Testament theology, and Jamieson, Fausset and Brown are distinguished, time-tested scholars who wrote their Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible in 1871.

Plainly, we are to expect a special outpouring. This is not "manifest sons" doctrine nor "kingdom now" theology. This doesn't mean there aren't churches in all forms of apostasy; nations will still be judged at the end of the age. We are simply stating, according to the word of God, that between now and when Jesus Christ returns, there will be another great outpouring, and that we are in the beginning of that outpouring now."

excerpt from Frances Frangipane

Ministries of Francis Frangipane Weekly Message System

 

[Abiding]

as zone wound say nonesence!! this is talking about a twofold method of patience....not one thing in this context or the whole book for that matter about an outpouring of the Holyspirit.

 

[zone]

found it interesting. what are your thoughts?

Charisma with Latter Rain
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25399-hidden-hand-3.html

etc.

 

[zone]

this is talking about a twofold method of patience....not one thing in this context or the whole book for that matter about an outpouring of the Holyspirit.

amen Abiding.
see how they did it?

once again, they severed a fulfilled prophecy (Joel, fulfilled at PENTECOST) and carried it 1900+ years into the future to present a counterfeit.

 

[NoahsMom]

As the lil skunk says in bambi...." AWWW he can call me a hairytic if he wants to "............JUSSSSSSSSSSSSS kiddingggggggggggggggg.

 

[zone]

Manifest(ed) Sons of God; Latter Rain; New Apostolic Restoration; Joel's Army....etc etc....all FALSE.

The Manifested Sons of God heresy and the New Apostolic Reformation Rejoice Forevermore

 

[zone]

As the lil skunk says in bambi...." AWWW he can call me a hairytic if he wants to "............JUSSSSSSSSSSSSS kiddingggggggggggggggg.

hehehe

oh man....am i that old i'm forgetting my CARTOONS?

 

[Abiding]

amen Abiding.
see how they did it?

once again, they severed a fulfilled prophecy (Joel, fulfilled at PENTECOST) and carried it 1900+ years into the future to present a counterfeit.

well i cant understand how ya can fool the non bereans with the acts reference
but how can u do it with that james referance...how?

 

[Abiding]

they must have a secret decoder ring

 

[zone]

well i cant understand how ya can fool the non bereans with the acts reference
but how can u do it with that james referance...how?

all they have to do is take a few key terms and build a system around it.
then incrementely introduce it from one generation to another.
it's a pretty big stronghold to tear down when you've had men actually writing study bibles that include these things in the margins and footnotes...and if you've grown up hearing this from the pulpits.
it's just a matter of taking it to the Lord and keeping that which is good and right and setting the rest aside.

 

[AnandaHya]

as zone wound say nonesence!! this is talking about a twofold method of patience....not one thing in this context or the whole book for that matter about an outpouring of the Holyspirit.

yeah I thought it was kind of confusing to. I thought the early rain is when you are given the Holy Spirit and that we are patient and the latter rain would be when Jesus came again and this happened and we would then become mature and perfect in Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
New King James Version (NKJV)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality

and that is why we need to be patient.

James 5

7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[c] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.[d

 

[Laodicea]

Joel 2:28-31
(28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
(29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
(30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
(31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Revelation 6:12-17
(12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
(13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
(14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
(15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
(16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[zone]

Joel 2:28-31
(28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
(29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
(30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
(31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

joel, like many prophesies, covers a certain span of redemptive history.

these passages cover "in those days", which always the last days - from the First Advent to the Second.

it is describing a certain work God promises to do, and covers Pentecost, and straight to the end.

like Matthew 24, mark 13 and Luke 21, it covers a near prophecy (70AD) and information concerning the Second Advent.

 

[Laodicea]

joel, like many prophesies, covers a certain span of redemptive history.

these passages cover "in those days", which always the last days - from the First Advent to the Second.

it is describing a certain work God promises to do, and covers Pentecost, and straight to the end.

like Matthew 24, mark 13 and Luke 21, it covers a near prophecy (70AD) and information concerning the Second Advent.

The outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain is not going to be like what the charismatics teach it will be conviction of spirit

John 16:8
(8) And when he is come, he will reprove (convict) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Look at what happened on the day of Pentecost, they were able to speak in other languages and were convicted

Acts 2:37
(37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

The only difference to the latter rain to now will be greater conviction, also the Holy Spirit will not be given to anyone but, those who are obedient

Acts 5:32
(32) And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

There will be a true outpouring of the Holy Spirit but, the Bible teaches that there will be a counterfeit as well

 

[zone]

The outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain is not going to be like what the charismatics teach it will be conviction of spirit

John 16:8
(8) And when he is come, he will reprove (convict) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Look at what happened on the day of Pentecost, they were able to speak in other languages and were convicted

Acts 2:37
(37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

The only difference to the latter rain to now will be greater conviction, also the Holy Spirit will not be given to anyone but, those who are obedient

Acts 5:32
(32) And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

There will be a true outpouring of the Holy Spirit but, the Bible teaches that there will be a counterfeit as well

hi Lao.
i love you. i must object tho.

the scriptures say apostasy, not revival.

there's nothing anywhere that tells of a future "outpouring". any who are saved will be saved by the same ordained means since pentecost, the preaching of the word.

regarding greater conviction...do you mean a stronger Power? a stronger message? what other message is there but repent, believe on Christ for the remission of sins and escape the coming wrath, receiving eternal life by Grace through faith? what stronger message is there than that?

regarding the "obedient" receiving the outpouring: if any of us are truly obedient (not sure exactly what you mean by this...Law?...perhaps you mean steadfast in our faith?), what would we need an outpouring for when The Spirit indwells us already? i think i know what you mean though concerning enough Grace and strength to persevere...Jesus has promised this to the faithful. He will keep them. but that's His doing.

i see nothing in Joel that speaks of a Second Pentecost. that's not say there won't be a great harvest of souls at the same time as the great apostasy takes place: many will depart, but many will be saved also.

just The Pentecost...then the description of the cosmic signs signalling the Second Advent. Joel was spoken in order that Peter could signal the arrival of Pentecost ('this is that spoken by the prophet Joel'), then simply describes the end of the age.

that's my reading anyways....i'll take another look today.
love zone.

 

[AnandaHya]

Joel 2:28-31
(28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
(29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
(30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
(31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Hi Laodicea! how are you today?

I think the above verses in Joel match up better with these verses in Acts and have happened during Pentecost especially since the writer of Acts so helpfully pointed out that Peter said that Joel's words were being fulfilled at that time.

Acts 2

Coming of the Holy Spirit

1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

...12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’

 

[Laodicea]

hi Lao.
i love you. i must object tho.

the scriptures say apostasy, not revival.

there's nothing anywhere that tells of a future "outpouring". any who are saved will be saved by the same ordained means since pentecost, the preaching of the word.

regarding greater conviction...do you mean a stronger Power? a stronger message? what other message is there but repent, believe on Christ for the remission of sins and escape the coming wrath, receiving eternal life by Grace through faith? what stronger message is there than that?

regarding the "obedient" receiving the outpouring: if any of us are truly obedient (not sure exactly what you mean by this...Law?...perhaps you mean steadfast in our faith?), what would we need an outpouring for when The Spirit indwells us already? i think i know what you mean though concerning enough Grace and strength to persevere...Jesus has promised this to the faithful. He will keep them. but that's His doing.

i see nothing in Joel that speaks of a Second Pentecost. that's not say there won't be a great harvest of souls at the same time as the great apostasy takes place: many will depart, but many will be saved also.

just The Pentecost...then the description of the cosmic signs signalling the Second Advent. Joel was spoken in order that Peter could signal the arrival of Pentecost ('this is that spoken by the prophet Joel'), then simply describes the end of the age.

that's my reading anyways....i'll take another look today.
love zone.

Hi Zone
I do not believe that there will be stronger preaching or a stronger message but stronger conviction and it is greater now than before because the population of the world is a lot more now than before. Also the Holy Spirit at Pentecost is still here.
Before Jesus can return everyone must have the opportunity to hear the message. I do not believe there will be a great revival cause Jesus said 'as in the days of Noah' and 'as in the days of lot'. How many were saved in those times? Not many so it is like that today but everyone will be convicted and have the opportunity.

 

[Laodicea]

Hi Laodicea! how are you today?

I think the above verses in Joel match up better with these verses in Acts and have happened during Pentecost especially since the writer of Acts so helpfully pointed out that Peter said that Joel's words were being fulfilled at that time.

Acts 2

Coming of the Holy Spirit

1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

...12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’

.

It is true that those verses are quoted in Acts and received a partial fulfillment also it fulfilled the feast of first fruits in Leviticus 23 and 3000 were baptized that day. But verse 31 in Joel says:-

Joel 2:31
(31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

This day has not happened yet so we could see a the latter rain poured out whereas before at the day of Pentecost was the former rain

 

[Laodicea]

regarding the "obedient" receiving the outpouring: if any of us are truly obedient (not sure exactly what you mean by this...Law?...perhaps you mean steadfast in our faith?), what would we need an outpouring for when The Spirit indwells us already? i think i know what you mean though concerning enough Grace and strength to persevere...Jesus has promised this to the faithful. He will keep them. but that's His doing.
.

Regarding being obedient that is what the Bible says, the Holy spirit cannot be given to anyone as you know some may claim to have the Holy Spirit, but may not the Holy spirit works on every heart but as far as being used by the Holy Spirit for service is another matter

Acts 8:18-20
(18) And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
(19) Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
(20) But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
1 Corinthians 12:11
(11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 

[zone]

Hi Zone
I do not believe that there will be stronger preaching or a stronger message but stronger conviction and it is greater now than before because the population of the world is a lot more now than before. Also the Holy Spirit at Pentecost is still here.
Before Jesus can return everyone must have the opportunity to hear the message. I do not believe there will be a great revival cause Jesus said 'as in the days of Noah' and 'as in the days of lot'. How many were saved in those times? Not many so it is like that today but everyone will be convicted and have the opportunity.

okay buddy.
i didn't get it the first time.
i agree 100%
zone