Age of Marriage
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We actually have a couple of good churches within 20 min of where we live. We have the type you describe as well. Church has sure changed since when I was saved...as a child. Sometimes I long for that simplicity and the genuine fellowship of those days.
Speaking of twisting scripture, using this forum gives a person a pretty good taste of that and leaves you questioning where they go to church, if they go to church or fancy themselves a prophet/teacher/gifted homogeneous never before heard of, gift to all of humanity and aren't we lucky to have them instructing us.
Speaking of twisting scripture, using this forum gives a person a pretty good taste of that and leaves you questioning where they go to church, if they go to church or fancy themselves a prophet/teacher/gifted homogeneous never before heard of, gift to all of humanity and aren't we lucky to have them instructing us.
Unfortunately it was once my job to filter out those types. But here I'm just a schmuck and can cause trouble. I like being a schmuck instead of an owner representative.
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written by a friend ..
Lots of decent folks have been misled in the area of 'end times' at great costs to the church and the culture. It has caused several generations to withdraw from the fight, as they have been told ,as above, rapture is the only way out. Forgetting that Christ's finished work was completed in history , and so His unfinished work, building His church , will likewise be completed in history. The means , seen al through the Scriptures is not by force of power, but rather the power of the gospel , proclaimed . Nothing can stand against it. "I have hewn them in pieces by the prophets I have slain them by THE WORDS OF MY MOUTH . Hos 6;5 The (proclaimed) Word of God is the sword that proceeds from His mouth. From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords. The church ,and only the church is commissioned to realize this in history ; And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Note especially the stated reason for the commission : “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Lots of decent folks have been misled in the area of 'end times' at great costs to the church and the culture. It has caused several generations to withdraw from the fight, as they have been told ,as above, rapture is the only way out. Forgetting that Christ's finished work was completed in history , and so His unfinished work, building His church , will likewise be completed in history. The means , seen al through the Scriptures is not by force of power, but rather the power of the gospel , proclaimed . Nothing can stand against it. "I have hewn them in pieces by the prophets I have slain them by THE WORDS OF MY MOUTH . Hos 6;5 The (proclaimed) Word of God is the sword that proceeds from His mouth. From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords. The church ,and only the church is commissioned to realize this in history ; And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Note especially the stated reason for the commission : “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
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What's interesting to me, is how quickly a thread can get off topic. So far JohnDB in his contrarian position to the words of Jesus, wants us to concern ourselves with fleshly items for the infant, and the relaxation time for the young couple. Both of these, due to a lack of earnings available, may be lessened for the new couple.
The question to us as a church, it seems to me, is what should we do if we find this a serious concern? It's not unreasonable that people have a vacation on occasion.
But to concern ourselves that these new parents won't get Spring Break trips is simply vanity. For instance, why Spring Break, and not a trip to Paris every spring?
The question to us as a church, it seems to me, is what should we do if we find this a serious concern? It's not unreasonable that people have a vacation on occasion.
But to concern ourselves that these new parents won't get Spring Break trips is simply vanity. For instance, why Spring Break, and not a trip to Paris every spring?
So far the primary concerns against keeping the child and marrying seem to be related to
1. lack of care between the two
2. lack of funds
3. lack of lifetime opportunities
4. poor parenting
5. how stupid is OP
But not always in that order.
It seems to me that if they are Christians, and if they found each other attractive enough to share the second most intimate experience a human can have with another person, they can be taught by the Holy Spirit how to complete their love?
The lack of funds may seem an obstacle in this society, but as noted in other places, this is vanity. The child doesn't need Adidas baby clothes to be happy and healthy. Designer baby toys from a Manhattan distributer won't change anything on if the child is reared with the Gospel as a guide.
As far as lifetime opportunities, this is perhaps the one God himself will use best to complete everyone involved. There is zero shame in being a parent who is actively working to parent, at least as far as age and wealth are concerned. And as JohnDB pointed out nicely, there is no Condemnation to these two young adults for stumbling. There is only a necessity for the church to instruct, if the individuals will not do so for themselves, to AVOID MORE SIN.
Poor parenting is more of a relative term, imo, and pardon the pun. The needs of the child are to be loved, fed, and kept safe. Just because mom and dad haven't had time to contemplate all the deep measures in the book of Psalms, doesn't mean that they won't be teaching their child how to stay in God's will. And if you start to say they missed it permanently...
OP is pretty darn stupid, that's true. Not much gonna make that better, as the days of increasing developments are probably over. It's all forgotten pants and broken sentences on lost words increasing.
1. lack of care between the two
2. lack of funds
3. lack of lifetime opportunities
4. poor parenting
5. how stupid is OP
But not always in that order.
It seems to me that if they are Christians, and if they found each other attractive enough to share the second most intimate experience a human can have with another person, they can be taught by the Holy Spirit how to complete their love?
The lack of funds may seem an obstacle in this society, but as noted in other places, this is vanity. The child doesn't need Adidas baby clothes to be happy and healthy. Designer baby toys from a Manhattan distributer won't change anything on if the child is reared with the Gospel as a guide.
As far as lifetime opportunities, this is perhaps the one God himself will use best to complete everyone involved. There is zero shame in being a parent who is actively working to parent, at least as far as age and wealth are concerned. And as JohnDB pointed out nicely, there is no Condemnation to these two young adults for stumbling. There is only a necessity for the church to instruct, if the individuals will not do so for themselves, to AVOID MORE SIN.
Poor parenting is more of a relative term, imo, and pardon the pun. The needs of the child are to be loved, fed, and kept safe. Just because mom and dad haven't had time to contemplate all the deep measures in the book of Psalms, doesn't mean that they won't be teaching their child how to stay in God's will. And if you start to say they missed it permanently...
OP is pretty darn stupid, that's true. Not much gonna make that better, as the days of increasing developments are probably over. It's all forgotten pants and broken sentences on lost words increasing.
https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/georg...w&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow
My hero....and I think he is a relative.
My hero....and I think he is a relative.
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I think what's most sad about the three who are currently sliding this thread looking down their noses at other people not here, is that all of them have acknowledged that "Everyone Is Doing It" or something similar. And instead of building a Fighting Plan for the Church to Combat this failure of our youth, we're claiming it out of our reach, Normal, or just not connecting that we have any responsibility at all to the communities in which we live.
What if that's why it continues to happen out of wedlock? Because we continue to claim them
1. too far from responsibility
2. too shameful to engage as a blessing even with their sins
"but their money, but their money!?!
Choke on your weath. Most seriously, if this is really what concerns you about your fellow church members, you should be engaged in trading floor chat rooms, not trying to claim a church. Hell awaits the World in sin, and I need to worry if a couple of young adults don't get to have 3 dress outfits to choose from?
1. too far from responsibility
2. too shameful to engage as a blessing even with their sins
"but their money, but their money!?!
Choke on your weath. Most seriously, if this is really what concerns you about your fellow church members, you should be engaged in trading floor chat rooms, not trying to claim a church. Hell awaits the World in sin, and I need to worry if a couple of young adults don't get to have 3 dress outfits to choose from?
We're talking about a reasonable legal age for marriage, not killing babies.
Since it's NEVER ok to kill babies, but it IS ok for people to get married... it's probably not the best analogy.
(Also, murder is clearly forbidden in scripture, but THERE IS NO BIBLICAL AGE GIVEN FOR MARRIAGE.... so it's not just apples and oranges, it's essentially a mute point as far as scripture is concerned.)
Some Thoughts:
Since our current laws on "age of marriage" seem to be "equal to" or "more conservative than" most ages of marriage from the past... they are probably a reasonable starting point. And that is all that an age minimum is; it's just a starting point. It's not a requirement that all young people must rush out and get married.
So, when compared to cultural norms from the past, the current laws seem to be a "reasonable starting point."
Since the current laws seem to be a "reasonable starting point", while still not requiring anyone to rush out and get married, I can't see the current laws as a huge issue.
Take Care
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Since it's NEVER ok to kill babies, but it IS ok for people to get married... it's probably not the best analogy.
(Also, murder is clearly forbidden in scripture, but THERE IS NO BIBLICAL AGE GIVEN FOR MARRIAGE.... so it's not just apples and oranges, it's essentially a mute point as far as scripture is concerned.)
Some Thoughts:
Since our current laws on "age of marriage" seem to be "equal to" or "more conservative than" most ages of marriage from the past... they are probably a reasonable starting point. And that is all that an age minimum is; it's just a starting point. It's not a requirement that all young people must rush out and get married.
So, when compared to cultural norms from the past, the current laws seem to be a "reasonable starting point."
Since the current laws seem to be a "reasonable starting point", while still not requiring anyone to rush out and get married, I can't see the current laws as a huge issue.
Take Care
.
Would you like to start a bible study on Leviticus? Because I'm pretty sure that sexual sin remains as a Stonable Offense, that's killing people. We would accept the killing of people, but only be worried about babies?
More conservative in which direction? 16 or 18 is not more conservative than 14, not if we're comparing what the Hebrews considered as adult, which was 13.
Most of the current laws are really not the problem. The problem is people who put onto young adults an irrational suspension of disbelief, in HOPING they don't follow their biological impulses and attempt to mate. Particularly, the entire "Western" "Church," which has nearly nothing good to say about parents until they are in their mid-twenties, apparently. Going so far as to accept Abortion to protect the "wealth" of the community.
More conservative in which direction? 16 or 18 is not more conservative than 14, not if we're comparing what the Hebrews considered as adult, which was 13.
Most of the current laws are really not the problem. The problem is people who put onto young adults an irrational suspension of disbelief, in HOPING they don't follow their biological impulses and attempt to mate. Particularly, the entire "Western" "Church," which has nearly nothing good to say about parents until they are in their mid-twenties, apparently. Going so far as to accept Abortion to protect the "wealth" of the community.
14 year Olds are well below the age of consent....
And below the age of marriage.
So nope....
Not going to be accommodating on that....
The GA solution is looking better and better. Besides....it's GA. They ain't gonna put him away....just hold him for a bit until the boy decides its time for him to move away to another state, camp legume, fort Campbell or somewhere else.
And below the age of marriage.
So nope....
Not going to be accommodating on that....
The GA solution is looking better and better. Besides....it's GA. They ain't gonna put him away....just hold him for a bit until the boy decides its time for him to move away to another state, camp legume, fort Campbell or somewhere else.
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like I said, at one time, the law of the land:
16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
So nope....
Not going to be accommodating on that....
[/QUOTE]
16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
So nope....
Not going to be accommodating on that....
[/QUOTE]
1.) I never said to obey laws that break scripture.
2.) I don't think our current laws on the age requirements for marriage DO break scripture... since scripture doesn't give any age requirements at all, except the implication of puberty, and our laws are actually more conservative than that.
3.) So unless we've had a misunderstanding, I don't think we're actually in disagreement about anything.
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2.) I don't think our current laws on the age requirements for marriage DO break scripture... since scripture doesn't give any age requirements at all, except the implication of puberty, and our laws are actually more conservative than that.
3.) So unless we've had a misunderstanding, I don't think we're actually in disagreement about anything.
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What do you mean by "more conservative than puberty?" If God has designed a young woman to birth a kid, via providence or just by allowing a sinful will, would that be a mistake on God's part?
Because if it isn't, the condition remains: that she has become one flesh with a male, my desires set aside for otherwise, as the scriptures, Jesus, and Paul tell us pretty clearly.
Because if it isn't, the condition remains: that she has become one flesh with a male, my desires set aside for otherwise, as the scriptures, Jesus, and Paul tell us pretty clearly.