Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Was that helpful?


Nope, Just his works.


Wrong. And no excuse either. You've been given a full explanation of both passages.

This what Jesus say

John 25;6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

thrown into fire

to make me happy thrown into fire mean go to heaven hmm

I am a sinner I am happy to hear that

 

[Jackson123]

7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Was that helpful?


Nope, Just his works.


Wrong. And no excuse either. You've been given a full explanation of both passages.

We have to use logic

land produce thorn without tree? I never hear it

 

[Jackson123]

1 John 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

seem support Matt 25 that is why Jesus say, no love, not helping the needy, go to hell

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let us do simple logic

That would be nice for a change.

how you say trust Jesus if you don’t have fellowship with Him

Trusting Jesus for salvation and NOT offending Him from time to time, or even MOST of the time are completely different issues.

I'll ask YOUR question in another way, and we will see how much simple logic you really do understand:

How do you say you are married when you offend her by rude behavior or whatever does offend her?

i in you and you in me is very biblical terminology

Yes, it is. For fellowship.

john 14;20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.”

When is "that day"? Do you know?

definition of fellowship
1
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.
"they valued fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community"

Similar:
companionship
companionability
sociability
comradeship
fraternization
camaraderie
friendship
mutual support
mutual respect
mutual liking
amiability
amity
affability
geniality
kindliness
cordiality
intimacy
social intercourse
social contact
association
closeness
togetherness
solidarity
chumminess
palliness
clubbiness
mateyness[/QUOTE]
All these words convey fellowship.

so you trust Jesus but not associate with Him

How come your "simpe logic" isn't coming through here?

In a marriage, are the couple ALWAYS in fellowship? If not, why?

big nonsense

Right. When YOU conflate receiving a permanent relationship through trust and being in harmony with the one you trust for the relationship.

Do you believe that saved people still sin? yes or no

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Was that helpful?

This what Jesus say

John 25;6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Excuse me but let's QUIT changing the subject. You quoted Heb 6:8 and gave me a question about what gets burned and I showed 2 verses that clearly showed the context was the product from the LAND. You were confused and thought what was burned was the LAND, which represented believers.

So trying to switch to a different verse because I ANSWERED your question biblically won't work.

I will hold your toes to the fire.

thrown into fire

to make me happy thrown into fire mean go to heaven hmm

I am a sinner I am happy to hear that

You are also very very confused.

I also explained WHERE that FIRE will be, and it isn't heaven.

Would it be too much to ask if you could at least pay attention?

 

[FreeGrace2]

OK, seems like "round two":
FreeGrace2 said:
7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.
8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Was that helpful

We have to use logic
land produce thorn without tree? I never hear it

Where do you find thorns on trees? What part of the world are you living in??

Thorns are on plants, shrubs, etc. NOT trees. At least not in the hemisphere I live in.

The point is you cannot "burn the land". All you can burn is what is ON the land, which is what grows on the land.

You are struggling with "logic". A lot.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 John 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

seem support Matt 25 that is why Jesus say, no love, not helping the needy, go to hell

Matt 25 doesn't support ANY of your "go to hell if no works" heresy.

Why can't you seem to grasp that what Jesus said in Johbn 10:28 PREVENTS your ideas from being true.

OK, please answer this question:

Do you agree that Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

This is your "make or break" opportunity. You will either "get it" or prove an inability to comprehend much.

What will it be? Your answer will tell the thread.

 

[Jackson123]

Matt 25 doesn't support ANY of your "go to hell if no works" heresy.

Why can't you seem to grasp that what Jesus said in Johbn 10:28 PREVENTS your ideas from being true.

OK, please answer this question:

Do you agree that Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

This is your "make or break" opportunity. You will either "get it" or prove an inability to comprehend much.

What will it be? Your answer will tell the thread.

You not agree with Matt 24;13

eternal salvation after endure to the end

say you buy tomato to the farmer

you call and agree to make a payment 3 time
farmer agree to deliver as soon as you pay off

you only make 1 x payment and ask farmer deliver tomato

must be 3 x

must faith and endure, not only an hour faith than deny

 

[Jackson123]

Matt 25 doesn't support ANY of your "go to hell if no works" heresy.

Why can't you seem to grasp that what Jesus said in Johbn 10:28 PREVENTS your ideas from being true.

OK, please answer this question:

Do you agree that Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

This is your "make or break" opportunity. You will either "get it" or prove an inability to comprehend much.

What will it be? Your answer will tell the thread.

matt 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and

verse 41…….DELART FROM ME YOU WHO ARE CURSED ENTER INTO THE ETERNAL fire PREPARE FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGEL

FIR HERESY IT IS HEAVEN WITH LESS CROWN

WHY JESUS ANGRY ON THEM

JESUS SAY BECAUSE THEY SEE JESUS HUNGRY THEY NOT FEED HIMM

WHO

 

[FreeGrace2]

You not agree with Matt 24;13

I UNDERSTAND IT. I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING OF IT.

eternal salvation after endure to the end

NEVER.

say you buy tomato to the farmer

you call and agree to make a payment 3 time
farmer agree to deliver as soon as you pay off

you only make 1 x payment and ask farmer deliver tomato

must be 3 x

must faith and endure, not only an hour faith than deny

This isn't even close to salvation, so your scenario is quite flawed. Try again.

This shows your mixed up understanding of salvation. Seems you think salvation must be paid by YOU. couldn't be more wrong.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, please answer this question:

Do you agree that Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

This is your "make or break" opportunity. You will either "get it" or prove an inability to comprehend much.

What will it be? Your answer will tell the thread.

matt 25

Please QUIT changing the subject. Why won't you answer my question?

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and

verse 41…….DELART FROM ME YOU WHO ARE CURSED ENTER INTO THE ETERNAL fire PREPARE FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGEL

FIR HERESY IT IS HEAVEN WITH LESS CROWN

WHY JESUS ANGRY ON THEM

JESUS SAY BECAUSE THEY SEE JESUS HUNGRY THEY NOT FEED HIMM

WHO

I already told you the key to this passage is v.46. But you never acknowledge it. Why?

Seems you are AFRAID to address any of the verses I give you. What are you afraid of? The Truth?

The words "the righteous" in v.46 PROVE that the sheep are believers, saved by grace through faith. No works involved.

Are you just trying to be dense for the argument of it?

One more time:
OK, please answer this question:
Do you agree that Jesus said in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?
This is your "make or break" opportunity. You will either "get it" or prove an inability to comprehend much.
What will it be? Your answer will tell the thread.

btw, a non-answer is an answer. It will show that you know that Jesus said what I asked, and therefore you WON'T answer it.

 

[posthuman]

I might add that John defines sin as a transgression of the Law.

1 John 3:4 KJV
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

i think surely this is rather defining "transgression of the law" as sin -- not defining sin itself.

for a proof i offer you this:

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
(Romans 5:13)
​

without the law, sin still exists.
therefore sin is not defined as transgression of the law, otherwise without law there is no sin.
rather, transgression of the law is defined as sin.
the scripture doesn't say there is no sin without law - rather that sin isn't charged where there is no law.
law or no law, sin is sin: and no one is without sin, as John says, as Paul says, as Christ says by saying "no one is good" - no one is without sin except God.

we can write mathematically:

{transgression of the law} ⊂ {sin}
but
{sin} ⊄ {transgression of the law}
​

transgression of the law is contained in "sin" -- it is one kind of sin.
sin is not contained in "transgression of the law" -- there is sin apart from transgressing the law; there is sin even when there is no law.

 

[posthuman]

i think surely this is rather defining "transgression of the law" as sin -- not defining sin itself.

for a proof i offer you this:

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,​

but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.​

(Romans 5:13)​

​

without the law, sin still exists.
therefore sin is not defined as transgression of the law, otherwise without law there is no sin.
rather, transgression of the law is defined as sin.
the scripture doesn't say there is no sin without law - rather that sin isn't charged where there is no law.
law or no law, sin is sin: and no one is without sin, as John says, as Paul says, as Christ says by saying "no one is good" - no one is without sin except God.

we can write mathematically:

{transgression of the law} ⊂ {sin}
but
{sin} ⊄ {transgression of the law}
​

transgression of the law is contained in "sin" -- it is one kind of sin.
sin is not contained in "transgression of the law" -- there is sin apart from transgressing the law; there is sin even when there is no law.

it's also useful to understand that the Greek here doesn't technically say "transgression of the law"
what it says is "sin is anomia"
anomia means "lawlessness, disobedience, iniquity"
transgressing the law is included in that, but it's not the only kind of "iniquity" one can commit -- per Romans 5:13, and per John who, himself knowing that we are not under the law because of what Christ has done, says we all still have sin, and we're liars if we deny it. clearly if we're not under the law ((do i really have to cite the dozen passages that clearly say that?)) yet we still have sin, sin is not completely defined by transgressing the law. sin remains without law; sin preceded the law. Satan was not under Moses.

 

[Jackson123]

NEVER

you not agree with jesus

Why Jesus put sheep to heaven

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdomprepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

jesus never lie

He put them to heaven because

read verse 35 and don’t lie to me

 

[Jackson123]

i think surely this is rather defining "transgression of the law" as sin -- not defining sin itself.

for a proof i offer you this:

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,​

but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.​

(Romans 5:13)​

​

without the law, sin still exists.
therefore sin is not defined as transgression of the law, otherwise without law there is no sin.
rather, transgression of the law is defined as sin.
the scripture doesn't say there is no sin without law - rather that sin isn't charged where there is no law.
law or no law, sin is sin: and no one is without sin, as John says, as Paul says, as Christ says by saying "no one is good" - no one is without sin except God.

we can write mathematically:

{transgression of the law} ⊂ {sin}
but
{sin} ⊄ {transgression of the law}
​

transgression of the law is contained in "sin" -- it is one kind of sin.
sin is not contained in "transgression of the law" -- there is sin apart from transgressing the law; there is sin even when there is no law.

what is definition of sin?

 

[apwall21]

This what Jesus say

John 25;6
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

thrown into fire

to make me happy thrown into fire mean go to heaven hmm

I am a sinner I am happy to hear that

This isn't to defy you, but to question, God says that some will be saved, but as though through a refiner's fire.

 

[posthuman]

what is definition of sin?

beautiful question, my brother ♥

here are a couple:

all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God​

(Romans 3:23)​

​

falling short of the glory of God is sin. who does this not condemn? no one is good but God alone
salvation is found in His mercy alone

here is one more clear:

whatsoever is not of faith is sin.​

(Romans 14:23)​

​

anything that is not of faith, is sin.
and given that one, here is something to think about:

the law is not of faith, ​

but “the man who does them shall live by them.”​

(Galatians 3:12) ​

​

seems to me scripture says that anyone believing salvation is through works, that belief itself is sin
we must trust in God, and nothing else
to believe anything we "do" can bring about our salvation, is sin

i think this is a very big problem for people who preach 'damned if you don't keep sabbath law'

 

[Magenta]

We have to use logic

land produce thorn without tree? I never hear it

Bush. You have never heard of bushes? Rose bush? Blackberry bush? Thistle is not a
tree either. Shrubs, briars and brambles also grow thorns. None of them are trees.

 

[Magenta]

Cacti also have thorns

 

[Jackson123]

This isn't to defy you, but to question, God says that some will be saved, but as though through a refiner's fire.

it is
but Matt 25 and John 15 is different case. on those case jesus say into fire not through as Paul say in Corinthian.
different case different punishment

in both John 15 and Matt 25 the case is lack of agape love

john 15 Jesus use analogy a branch that not bear fruit

fruit of Holy Spirit is love

that branch thrown into fire/hell

the same Jesus in Matt 25 also speak lack of agape love but more clear

the same punishment,

depart from me

why lack of love He say because when you see me hungry you not feed me, nake not cloth me ets

and the goat surprise when I see you………

jesus say what you not do to the lest you nod do it to Me

paul talk about builder that build something but when the fire come the building burn

no indication the builder lack of love

this builder build a ministry say a church, but for some reason when persecution come most of the member deny Jesus ( burned)

the builder(pastor )still go to heaven but like through fire or less reward

into and through is 2 different word

t