Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

You just admitted that "faith come first than agaphe love follow".

Now your stating that it is not faith plus works that save. It was only ever that faith in Jesus that qualified you for salvation in the first place. Of course, only a Christian can exert agape love.

We really only preach Christ crucified, the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Then after some time an obedient Christian will bear the fruit.

Do not put the cart before the horse.

Not faith + work
but faith alone but that honest faith bear fruit of love
it may manifested into work may stay inside as love
for example;

accepted the Lord than die on the next second that person save and never serve Jesus or helping the needy

or that person have love to the needy because Jesus in him but he himself poor don’t have money to buy food to feed hungry Jesus his love and sympathy counted as fruit because the fruit is love

 

[Jackson123]

For those who seek the Truth.
Now to deal with the Elephant in the Room....
What does Paul's teaching mean..."Not by works, but by Grace"?

Lets me rephrase it....so all of you folks can see the Truth.
You are Not saved the Works of the Law,...But by......Your.....Grace, your Grace....towards others.
That's right!!
If "Works"...were required for those under the Law of Moses, to be in covenant with God...
Doesn't it stand to reason, Paul is saying, Your "Grace"...is required under the Law of Christ?

Paul is simply telling the Jews....the Works under the Law of Moses are no longer required to be in a covenant with God.
Why?
Because, that covenant has been done away with, because the Works under the Laws of Mose...did not change the heart of the sinner.

Grace is the new requirement, for Grace is the name of the Law of Christ. Laws we must keep to be in a covenant with God, just like those who were under the law of Moses, were required to keep the Law.
Only this covenant corrects what the Law of Moses couldn't. It can change the heart of the sinner.
Now think about it folks....a covenant, is by definition...Laws we must keep, to be under a covenant.
What are the Laws of Grace???
Jesus gave us Two commandments, Two Commandments we must keep to be in a covenant with God.
"Love God..and Love your neighbor."
This is what Paul means by being "Under Grace"..,being under the covenant of Grace.
You must keep these Two Commandments to be under Grace, to be under the covenant of Grace with God.

I know..I know..Paul says in some places, Gods Grace. But notice what John says...in (John 1:16)
"And of His fullness have we all received grace...for grace."

the big boss Jesus willing to die on the cross is big grace
but to accept grace we need to have faith
and faith mean trust His teaching

 

[TMS]

It can't be works because then we would earn salvation.

We can't earn it so works does not bring salvation.

Only by the blood of Jesus can we be saved from sin.
So we accept it by faith.

But works are not thrown away or forgotten.

We are judged and our works will reveal our faith.

Only Jesus knows the relationship we have with Him, and thats why He is judge.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe what Jesus explain what sheep do in Matt 25 is the manifestation of agape love
it happen in general if one love than help

but agape love may stay in one heart without the manifestation for some reason

one may love and want to feed hungry Jesus but he himself don’t have food

i read what happen among persecuted Christian in the Chinese prison

the food are very limited, if one sick the healthy one scramble to give his food to the sick
brother eat mine I am healthy I am fasting today
the other say, no brother let him eat mine

the atmosphere of love so strong and they fell like in heaven

no body able to do it but jesus

jesus in do it, believer bear it out

 

[TMS]

Yes works are the imparted righteousness of Christ in us.
By surrendering to the Spirit we allow His Spirit (works) to have control.
It isn't about the amount of works but about giving our selves to be used (dying to the flesh or putting the flesh to death). Jesus knows our hearts.

Rom 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Jackson123]

It can't be works because then we would earn salvation.

We can't earn it so works does not bring salvation.

Only by the blood of Jesus can we be saved from sin.
So we accept it by faith.

But works are not thrown away or forgotten.

We are judged and our works will reveal our faith.

Only Jesus knows the relationship we have with Him, and thats why He is judge.

Yep, tha fact that Noah build an ark tell he did believe God information of the coming flood

 

[Jackson123]

Yes works are the imparted righteousness of Christ in us.
By surrendering to the Spirit we allow His Spirit (works) to have control.
It isn't about the amount of works but about giving our selves to be used (dying to the flesh or putting the flesh to death). Jesus knows our hearts.

Rom 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Yep no Christ spirit not His, cast into fire

 

[TMS]

Yep, tha fact that Noah build an ark tell he did believe God information of the coming flood

I don't believe faith and works can be seperated. James makes it plain "faith without works is dead"

They work together.
Side by side.
We can't earn salvation or work our way to heaven. That is unbiblical. We are saved by faith in Jesus.
But like Paul says...Rom 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[TMS]

Yep, tha fact that Noah build an ark tell he did believe God information of the coming flood

The works showed his faith..

 

[FreeGrace2]

Me winner man not you. Sneaking in on my winning argument.

I concede.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Seem to me you believe Jesus talk about heaven or hell in Matt 25

Right. But it isn't about HOW to enter heaven due to deeds. It's about believers (the sheep, the righteous) who enter heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I know for long time save by faith but faith bear the fruit of loving work
i was believe like what you do save not by work mean robing the bank for living still go to heaven as long as you have faith still go to heaven with less reward
after listening Muslim Christian debate where Muslim accuse Christian as crazy religion save by faith mean ok to kill, it make me read more bible is that man made doctrine or it is bible
some Muslim say you only need to believe a second than Bac/m to be robber still go to heaven because OSAS
After I do more investigation of what Jesus say about faith I know that it was wrong

Are you going to admit that your view that Matt 24:13 isn't about soul salvation given what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 10:28?

 

[Jackson123]

Are you going to admit that your view that Matt 24:13 isn't about soul salvation given what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 10:28?

No
those John verses happen after Matt 24:13

 

[FreeGrace2]

No
those John verses happen after Matt 24:13

Doesn't matter one bit.

What Jesus said in John 10:28 PROVES that you don't understand Matt 24:13.

In fact, if your opinion of Matt 24:13 was correct, Jesus COULDN'T HAVE SAID what He did in John 10:28.

How come you don't understand that?

From the MOMENT a person becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life and SHALL NEVER PERISH.

That is what the Bible says very clearly. You continue to reject what the Bible says.

All based on a very faulty understanding of 1 verse. And since it has been explained to you thoroughly, you are without excuse.

 

[Jackson123]

Right. But it isn't about HOW to enter heaven due to deeds. It's about believers (the sheep, the righteous) who enter heaven.

It is how to enter
sheep show their faith into action

James 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

answer James question on verse 14

 

[FreeGrace2]

No
those John verses happen after Matt 24:13

One more thing. Do you think one verse can cancel out another verse? Or contradict another verse?

What does it matter WHEN either verse occurred?

The whole Bible is in perfect agreement and harmony. And your opinion of Matt 24:13 means you CAN'T believe what Jesus said in John 10:28.

 

[Jackson123]

Doesn't matter one bit.

What Jesus said in John 10:28 PROVES that you don't understand Matt 24:13.

In fact, if your opinion of Matt 24:13 was correct, Jesus COULDN'T HAVE SAID what He did in John 10:28.

How come you don't understand that?

From the MOMENT a person becomes a believer, they POSSESS eternal life and SHALL NEVER PERISH.

That is what the Bible says very clearly. You continue to reject what the Bible says.

All based on a very faulty understanding of 1 verse. And since it has been explained to you thoroughly, you are without excuse.

I believe you misunderstand those verse
if you believe you save, yes
if you not believe you go to hell
if you believe than persecution come than you deny you go to hell
if you believe to the end of your live your salvation secure for eternal

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is how to enter
sheep show their faith into action

That is NOT what saves them. The point is that the sheep and the righteous are believers. That is the basis for entering the kingdom.

James 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

answer James question on verse 14

Sure. James 2:18 - But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

The "someone" acknowledges that another "has faith" and he notes that he "has works". Then he challenges the other to "show me your faith APART from works, and I will show you my faith BY my works".

iow, the ONLY WAY to show your faith (demonstrate your faith) is by works. Evidence of faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe you misunderstand those verse

If I have misunderstood John 10:28, please explain what Jesus taught in that verse. And stick to that verse.

if you believe you save, yes
if you not believe you go to hell
if you believe than persecution come than you deny you go to hell

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. So your comment shows that you DON'T believe what Jesus said.

if you believe to the end of your live your salvation secure for eternal

Jesus wasn't talking about "end of your life" as you presume. The context, once again, is the 7 year tribulation. But you want to add to Scripture what isn't in Scripture.

You are stubborn beyond belief. With all the evidence that proves that you misunderstand, you won't budge and believe what the Bible clearly says.

 

[Jackson123]

One more thing. Do you think one verse can cancel out another verse? Or contradict another verse?

What does it matter WHEN either verse occurred?

The whole Bible is in perfect agreement and harmony. And your opinion of Matt 24:13 means you CAN'T believe what Jesus said in John 10:28.

every verse in agreement

john 3:16 agree with Matt 25;34-41
john 3 save by faith Matt 25 save by faith in action

matt 25 is detail for John 3 not contradict
matt 24;13 is complete john
you have to read all teaching than summarized it

for example jesus say if you deny Me I will deny you
peter deny Jesus why Jesus not deny him?
Hmm jesus lie
you have to read complete story

than you know Jesus not lie
because Peter repent
we all sinner we can’t do agape love but if you invite Jesus in He do for you from within and you bear it
from outside like you do it but not you, Christ in you did it