Thank you for your reply
Though it would be nice if the person who claimed something was in Scripture that actually isn't, would admit it.
Did Jesus ever say I Forgive you?
- Thread starter RichGladden
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Though it would be nice if the person who claimed something was in Scripture that actually isn't, would admit it.
You are ever so very much welcome, Pilgrimshope, and thank you as well for your very kind words
Hi Rich,
Here's a verse that might be of interest.
Ephesians 4:32
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
This is an attribute of God in both the old and new testaments. God is completely holy and righteous, condemning sins. However, He is fully able and willing to forgive us for His Son's sake. Jesus as you know, paid for all sins, satisfying the justice of the Father by Christ's punishment and bloody death. Those who sin, like the woman taken in adultery was shown mercy and Jesus had right to condemn her, but chose not to.
From the cross, we hear Jesus asking the Father to forgive the tormentors.
It is the Father Who is seen forgiving on the basis of the Son. He provided the propitiation that atoned completely for all sins forever...Hebrews 10.
Jesus did not come the first time to condemn the world, however His second coming is much different. After the gospel of free grace is offered, Jesus will judge and condemn those who rejected mercy shown by His own body nailed to the tree.
Here's a verse that might be of interest.
Ephesians 4:32
"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
This is an attribute of God in both the old and new testaments. God is completely holy and righteous, condemning sins. However, He is fully able and willing to forgive us for His Son's sake. Jesus as you know, paid for all sins, satisfying the justice of the Father by Christ's punishment and bloody death. Those who sin, like the woman taken in adultery was shown mercy and Jesus had right to condemn her, but chose not to.
From the cross, we hear Jesus asking the Father to forgive the tormentors.
It is the Father Who is seen forgiving on the basis of the Son. He provided the propitiation that atoned completely for all sins forever...Hebrews 10.
Jesus did not come the first time to condemn the world, however His second coming is much different. After the gospel of free grace is offered, Jesus will judge and condemn those who rejected mercy shown by His own body nailed to the tree.
You are ever so very much welcome, Pilgrimshope, and thank you as well for your very kind words
much love in Christ sister
good read there I have one question about this part
“He provided the propitiation that atoned completely for all sins forever...Hebrews 10.”
I agree with that but I’m wondering if the believer has a responsibility to repent and stop commiting sin ? So I agree with his sacrifice atoning and propitiating for all sin but does this mean all sin is already forgiven and can never be held against the sinner who continues on serving sin ? So does Jesus dying formoir sins make this irrelevant or does it reconcile and both aspects are true
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
I’m not sure if your gonna understand my question Jesus death definately covers all sin , but how then does no repentance impact this for the person of they dont repent and keep serving sin willfully does Jesus sacrifice still atone for thier sins ? Or do we need to repent so we don’t end up getting judged by the fiery Indignation ?
it seems as though repentance from sin is important and reconciles to Christs sacrifice the person actually has responsibility to respond to Jesus atonement is what I’m saying I think I agree with everything you said I’m just wondering where the let where if we keep sinning what happens then ?
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
Romans 6:15-18, 20-22
don’t we also need to stop serving satans Will at some point also ?
like I was saying I’m pretty sure I completely agree I’m just hazy on thy at point of repentance of our sinful deeds knowing Jesus died to deliver us from them
Those are fair questions.
I don't have time right now to answer all since they cover a big topic(s).
I will briefly for now say that I try to distinguish between the lost sinner and what applies to the born again believer's walk with God. When I trusted Christ to save me, I was given everlasting life as a gift. I cannot lose that as I am in the hand of God, held by His power. My attempts to obtain from sins and power to resist temptations are now not what keeps me saved. However, as a child of the Lord, I should walk with Him. When I sin, I get back into fellowship with Him, (on speaking terms), by confession directly to Him on the basis of Christ's atonement. I John, 1;9, Jeremiah 3:13, Psalm 32.
I have to get back to work for now, but will leave this brief teaching to a classroom on this subject. It would take more time to discuss the passages you quoted, but perhaps at a later time.
I’m really just asking if you agree with the rest of what Hebrews says about needing to repent from serving sin willfully or not ? See rather than us looking at the Bible and saying some of scripture is meant for a believer a “ saved “ person and other stuff I’d for the “lost”
the epistles including Hebrews are all written to believers of Jesus Christ is the truth. The apostles were given a commission by Jesus to preach the gospel and plant groups of believers in all areas who would further spread the gospel and grow the individual groups or ( churches ) and keep expanding outward until the gospel was preached through the whole world to all people.
The epistles are letters written by Peter , Paul , John , the group hat wrote Hebrews likely including Paul, to those groups of people that accepted the gospel when they preached it to them theee individual churches received the letters they are full of I formation thy at all intended for believers of Jesus
some of it is encouragement like this , this is for the church for anyone who hears it
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
that’s encouraging it turns out dependance to Gods provision and teaches us we can’t be saved but for his grace towards us we all sinned and condemned ourselves already so we need his grace and if thickness to be saved from death.
but this is written in the same epistle to the same group of Christian believers and it also is for them to accept it’s not an encouragement but this is a warning to those believers he told “ by grace your saved “
“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:1-7 KJV
the epistles need to be taken in as a whole not divided and taken out of context and the other parts be denied saying “ that’s not for the church “ it’s a letter written to the church to teach them what to believe and do
See Paul preached Gods our savior he’s saved us from our in destination of death by taking his death into our account your saved by grace through Christs death and made a new life through his resurrection from that death no Paul’s teachkngs g the same people “ to be clear you cannot keep living in sin and expect to receive theee things I’m telling you about “
remission of sin and repentance was his message trust in what God has done for us d follow after Jesus and his word in the gospel don’t think you now can keep sinning word thy out consewuence but repent and learn from Jesus the truth and walk in those ways
Like Hebrews “ Jesus is the atonement for all sin” or 1 John “ jesus is the propitiation for the sin of us Christian’s and all the world “
but this does t make the rest of what it says not relevant , Hebrews goes on to teach like Paul foret he establishes what Christ has given us and then in his epistles all of them he teaches thoroughly “ but you can’t keep Living in sin and expect to inherit these things, but should expect judgement instead “
that’s Hebrews and Ephesians but look at Galatians how constant the message is especially with Paul who preaches so much about grace and so much about repentance and judgement the warnings are stark and clear in his epistles and are meant for the same people who read a verse in chapter two or three it’s all meant to lead us to a complete understandkng about what Jesus did to remit our sins d repentance and righteousness moving forward not perfection but pressing forward into righteousness me out of the dominion we lived under sin
we have to begin to walk out our faith Jesus is always with thy bus to help but we are to walk and cannot keep
Living in sin knowingly and willfully refusing the call to repent
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: ( sinful deeds -
And attitudes )
of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-21 KJV
it’s a really consistent message grace is what days of we now repent we can be saved before it was once you sin your condemned to death now it’s I don’t condemn you for your sins , now go and repent and learn to do good grace is what saved this sinner
“When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
John 8:10-13 KJV
the church are followers of the lord the children disciples ofnthe son we learn from him and change from a willful sinner to someone filled with the spirit of Jesus and his Will it takes time but denying the warnings will never bring us to repentance the warnings and acknowledging the hard things to hear like this
the first part you seem to have a grip on but the rest of the same chapter is harder to accept me put together with the first part of it they go together to complete the thought
“This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
( this is still the thinking flowing a little later ot connects with that
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:16-18, 26-27 KJV
as we learn the gospel his ways that get imprinted on our heart by faith , at some point we have to start walking those things out or we can’t expect to have the first part of the point and also reject the warnings gs so clear bout what we need to now do being redeemed and given the holy spirit this means we can’t keep
Loving for our own self after our own desires but we now have to begin learning and accepting Gods Will for us we find in the gospel and living in those ways
I was just wondering if you believe the whole chapter and whats written there to the same folks applies or just the stuff that sounds effortless and like we have no responsibility and can’t ever lose the inheritance we’re promised early in an epistle according to what an epistle says later about the inheritance ?
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
Paul’s gospel of grace is summed up like this and his epistles really best it out
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
Paul’s form of grace like Jesus teachkngs before him , teaches us about repentance from sin in this life now and to live upright lives while we hope for the lord , becoming zealous to do good and shim evil deeds we do
As to distinguishing between that which applies to the lost and that which applies to the saved I DO make a distinction, because the Bible makes that clear distinction.
What fake preachers, Catholics, many protestant and all cults do is the following.
They take that which applies to believers and make them requirements for the lost as works to gain God's approval for salvation.
God has a LOT of commands for His people.
For instance a lost person can weep over sins and promise to serve God all the days of their life as the TV preachers say and the people are two fold children of hell. They think they are saved because they "have given up their sins" and gave their lives to Christ or some such works . The lost can Not work their way to heaven. It is only available through the Son of God. He is the only way plus nothing.
As to Galatians, it was written to believers and they were warned sternly about those bringing in false gospels of works. Even believers in churches Paul started, were being deceived into believing another gospel, which is not another.
You mentioned Ephesians 2:8 which is excellent. It is written to believers who are bound for heaven ABOUT their salvation. It can be used to explain to the lost the same clear message that their salvation is "NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST."
In context, because salvation is free to us, we should be motivated to do what we were designed to do.
.."For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.". Verse 10
Should we walk in the works?
Yes. Not to BE saved, but because we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works" as believers in Him..verses 8-9
The same goes for the rest of the believer's existence on the earth. It's difficult to resist temptations, be consistent in some of the challenges of life....see Job.
However, those are separate from God's requirement for salvation which is faith in His Son, namely the gospel. The book of John mentioned that requirement a time or two. It was the one book devoted to the lost.
20:30
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
No use of the term "repent of their sins in this book is there?
I don't think you said they had to, but many preachers pull that from the Mormon manual to make that a requirement for the lost.
Does God want His children to walk in the flesh and sin willfully?
No.
Does He want them to confess and forsake them as oft as necessary?
Yes, daily.
Hebrews gets into that.
Not Just chapter 10 either. There are plenty of examples in the O.T. and N.T. of the Father disciplining His own children. As you saw in the sermon to children above. The Father doesn't send anyone to hell for breaking His rules. However, it is not pleasant when He chastens " every child that He loves."
Check your Galatians 5 verse you highlighted. Did those Corinthians get cast into hell?
No
What was to happen?
The consequences were that they were going to lose, Not salvation, but their INHERITANCE.
we can infer but its not recorded obviously
not. every single sentence Peter said was recorded in the gospels because the gospel writers focussed on what Jesus replied,
if you THAT hung up about it just because you cannot think why Jesus would need to ask Peter if he loved him, then maybe you need to read the gospels again to understand why a denial of Jesus was not the right thing to do. Jesus did not say to Peter, 'pretend you dont know me' did he?
Instead Jesus ALREADY knew that Peter would deny him three times. He didnt instruct Peter to do so, and Peter said he wouldnt, but he actually DID.
I would think that being one of his closest friends , Peters denial would hurt Jesus, not just the consequences but the friendship. Its like what it would be if you got married, and then your spouse said ah no we not married I dont even know her/him. Not just once but three times.
its one thing to talk trash about your ex, but if you say well no we were never married or met in the first place, isnt that a lie?
magenta seems to need proof for everything
sometimes its tiring to have to provide chapter and verse for evey little thing when she can look it up herself, but then if you give it to her she will say oh its the wrong one. whatever, if you wanna nitpick everything go ahead but dont say it like its a contest where you have to have proof. What is this a Bible exam?
Besides, asking for forgiveness may not even need to be verbal. Sometimes its reaching out a hand or a look in the eyes. The gospels are written from eyewitness accounts they arent a narrative to say and Jesus thought this and Peter thought that and this was his or her motive.
sometimes its tiring to have to provide chapter and verse for evey little thing when she can look it up herself, but then if you give it to her she will say oh its the wrong one. whatever, if you wanna nitpick everything go ahead but dont say it like its a contest where you have to have proof. What is this a Bible exam?
Besides, asking for forgiveness may not even need to be verbal. Sometimes its reaching out a hand or a look in the eyes. The gospels are written from eyewitness accounts they arent a narrative to say and Jesus thought this and Peter thought that and this was his or her motive.
Magenta is a brilliant student of the New Testament. That being said, "Study to show thyself approved of God. A workman that needeth not to be afraid. Rightly devideth the word of truth."
I was taught to compare what was being preached with the word to insuer that we are not being decieved. It's important. JW's LDS, RCC's have been blantantly decieved. Check the word!
I read both the Old and New Testament, we are all students (disciples)...which means we are all learning.
Definitely encourage you to check the word for yourself, be a Bearean and see if things are so.
OP wasnt being nitpicky though it quite clear that Jesus would have said 'I forgive you' at least 490 times!!
Just because in the gospel its not recorded 490 separate instances where Jesus forgave someone doesnt mean we can assume he never said it lol
Definitely encourage you to check the word for yourself, be a Bearean and see if things are so.
OP wasnt being nitpicky though it quite clear that Jesus would have said 'I forgive you' at least 490 times!!
Just because in the gospel its not recorded 490 separate instances where Jesus forgave someone doesnt mean we can assume he never said it lol
Scripture never states that Jesus ever asked directions to the nearest restroom either.
Perhaps he never went potty.
(not exactly a logical conclusion, is it.)
“As to distinguishing between that which applies to the lost and that which applies to the saved I DO make a distinction, because the Bible makes that clear distinction.”
I’m not clear it sounds like your concluding this single letter written to the church by an apostle part of it is for a believer and should be believed and the other part isn’t and shouldn’t be accepted ?
Your saying the beginning of this letter written to the church itself is to be accepted right ?
“according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;”
Ephesians 1:4-
that’s wonderful news and it’s true amen !!! But your saying we should t crept this also in the same letter ?
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7 KJV
that clear and present warning in all
His epistles of how one ends up not inheriting the promise that’s not to be believed ?
Would you say Paul’s wernkng isnoretty clear also or is that for unbelievers to read in tbier bibles and not for the church it’s written to ?
that’s sort of my point , many folks pick and choose which verses they feel should apply rather than accepting it all every word of the New Testament is written to a church and was meant to be spread to all believers
The gospel is about repentance from sin and remission of sin through Christs death
When we try to take out all of the warnings that say plainly “ you will
Not inherit the kingdom of you continue living these ways like this again
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21
paul Is saying “I’m telling you ( the same people he’s talking to in chapter 1-3 ) now and I have told you before many times those that live in these ways shall
Not inherit the kingdom of Jesus Christ
Is your position that pet doesn’t apply to believers ? But juss at t tv e let that says “ your saved by grace “ and e part that has never said “ now it doesn’t matter what you do you can never lose your promises inheritance “
He’s specifically telling them not to lose it by thinking they don’t have a responsibility to repent from all those works of the flesh he calls them
in e other letter he says they have no inheritance at all in the kingdom , it says the same thing again in Corinthians
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
there isn’t a bunch of different inheritances thiers Christ The sons inheritance and all who inherit that kingdom of eternal Life in a new creation with the lord
We’re promised of we follow Jesus d walk in faith we’re going to inherit the kingdom d we’re warned if we keep on serving sin we’re going to enter death and not inherit the kingdom he says well inherit if we hear and believe the gospel
If we keep on sinning and acting like it’s no big deal well Never be judged it’s because we can’t hear things so plain meant to turn our mind away from that thinking and shape it like this
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
that’s not there for us to debate whether it’s true or if it’s really meant for a believer of course it was written to believers, by believers for all
Believers.
but I’ll move on I was wondering if you were taking the great “ divide the word “ stance and I’m clear now God bless and keep you