Dispensationalism...

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#21
Did God save people differently at different times in history?
While justification has always been by grace through faith, there have clearly been DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS of God's dealing with humanity. For example, under the Noahic Covenant, God allowed men to eat all kinds of animals. But under the Law of Moses, there were very definite dietary restrictions, which have been totally removed once again under the New Covenant. The only constant throughout was that blood was not to be consumed, and that still applies.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
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#22
Really? At which point in history did Israel ever occupy the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, as embedded in the Abrahamic Covenant? And at which point did they hold that land eternally? Israel went into exile three times, and the Zionist nation-state of Israel at present occupies a small sliver of the land promised by God. But a time will come when each of the twelve tribes will possess exactly the portion given to them. See Ezekiel 48, which has never been fulfilled.
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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#23
Really? At which point in history did Israel ever occupy the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, as embedded in the Abrahamic Covenant? And at which point did they hold that land eternally? Israel went into exile three times, and the Zionist nation-state of Israel at present occupies a small sliver of the land promised by God. But a time will come when each of the twelve tribes will possess exactly the portion given to them. See Ezekiel 48, which has never been fulfilled.
Give the Scripture you are referring to when you mention the Nile. I can only discuss the Scriptures, not someone's opinion without giving the text as the basis of their statement.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#24
While justification has always been by grace through faith, there have clearly been DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS of God's dealing with humanity. For example, under the Noahic Covenant, God allowed men to eat all kinds of animals. But under the Law of Moses, there were very definite dietary restrictions, which have been totally removed once again under the New Covenant. The only constant throughout was that blood was not to be consumed, and that still applies.
By works a man is justified and not by faith only. This is not some justification before men either...just saying. Nor is James answering the question, will works follow faith?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#25
By works a man is justified and not by faith only.
Was Noah declared righteous BEFORE he did any works? Was Abraham declared righteous in the same way? And even Lot -- who chose Sodom -- was declared righteous by God. So justification in the eyes of God is purely by grace through faith.
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#26
"
...“Whereof I am made a minister, according to the Dispensation
of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the Word of God; Even​
the Mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,​
but now is made manifest to His saints.”—Colossians 1:25,26...​

...Some believe that there are only three administrations, which they divide
accordingly: Father, Son and Holy Spirit...

...the other end of the spectrum, there are those who teach that there are as
many as twelve dispensations....

...we hold the position that there are eight dispensations:

1. Dispensation of Innocence (Gen. 1:27,28).

2. Dispensation of Conscience (Gen. 3:7; Rom. 2:14,15).

3. Dispensation of Human Government (Gen. 9:1-7).

4. Dispensation of Promise (Gen. 12:1-3; 13:14-17).

5. Dispensation of the Law (Ex. 19,20).

6. Dispensation of Grace (Eph. 3:1-6).

7. Dispensation of Divine Government (Psa. 2:1-12; Rev. 11:15-19; Rev. 20).

8. Dispensation of the Fullness of Times (Eph. 1:10; II Peter 3:12,13)...
"
(P Sadler)

FULL study:
Dispensationalism (1)
Dispensationalism (2)

GRACE And Peace...
The Bible does not teach dispensations. What you posted above is nothing but a man-made bible study that ignores God's covenants which is the beating heart of the Bible.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#27
I feel people are just adding fancier words to something that ought to be simple when talking about dispensations.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#28
Was Noah declared righteous BEFORE he did any works? Was Abraham declared righteous in the same way? And even Lot -- who chose Sodom -- was declared righteous by God. So justification in the eyes of God is purely by grace through faith.
I don’t know? Were they?

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
358
100
43
#30
But the question is why (did God deal differently at different times), and the answer to the question is Jesus. In my view, Dispensationalism takes away this crucial explanation. It's not simply about God changing his mind at different periods in history - it's about Jesus fulfilling the law. From why Christians don't need to comply with all the ritual laws, to why we don't need to stone lawbreakers - these are all explained (and fulfilled) by the death and resurrection of Christ.
You see Dispensationalism as taking away from good exegesis of the bible, which I don't see why (yet, give me time I'll catch on) But the fact you see God dealing with mankind differently at different times shows that you see dispensations? I see the law as teaching us we can't be righteous, we can only fail, we can't keep the rituals and please God, and I agree Jesus fulfilled the law, and everything is centered on Him.

During that time people were and are still saved by faith, and still needed Christ to save them, and here we see in that time period it being made more obvious having this dispensation accomplishes this goal, righteous men of faith didn't cry out for help in keeping the law, they instead saw their need of a God to save them, they needed a savior, and the dispensation teaches them and us today of this fact.

I Guess I'm just saying I also see dispensations pointing everything to Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#32
The Bible does not teach dispensations.
Yes it does. If there is one dispensation clearly mentioned, it is up to you to look for the others. Speaking of the final dispensation, God says: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: (Eph 1:10)

Are we living during "the dispensation of the Gospel" or the "dispensation of grace"? Absolutely.
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the Gospel is committed unto me. (1 Cor 9:17) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward (Eph 3:2) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God (Col 1:25)
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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82
#33
Give the Scripture you are referring to when you mention the Nile. I can only discuss the Scriptures, not someone's opinion without giving the text as the basis of their statement.
The KJV, as in the literal YLT does not use the name "Nile" anywhere, but uses "river". Consider the clear statements of God's word later.

"Judah and Israel were many, as the sand which is by the sea in multitude, eating and drinking, and making merry. And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life." (1Kgs 4:20-21, KJV)

"And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem. And he reigned over all the kings from the river even unto the land of the Philistines, and to the border of Egypt." (2Chr 9:25-26, KJV)

"Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham; And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:" (Neh 9:7-8, KJV)

and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous or as in the NRSV and you have fulfilled your promise, for you are righteous. PAST TENSE! The land promise to Abraham has been fulfilled, as stated in Joshua 21:43-45 & 23:14-16. It does not await a 'completion' in some future millennium. There is no way around Joshua 21:43-45 & 23:14-16

"Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, and didst divide them into corners: so they possessed the land of Sihon, and the land of the king of Heshbon, and the land of Og king of Bashan. Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it. So the children went in and possessed the land, and thou subduedst before them the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites, and gavest them into their hands, with their kings, and the people of the land, that they might do with them as they would. And they took strong cities, and a fat land, and possessed houses full of all goods, wells digged, vineyards, and oliveyards, and fruit trees in abundance: so they did eat, and were filled, and became fat, and delighted themselves in thy great goodness." (Neh 9:22-25, KJV)
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#36
Reading the OPs articles is just sickening. Pages 16 -17 of article 2 so very sad.
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#37
Yes it does. If there is one dispensation clearly mentioned, it is up to you to look for the others. Speaking of the final dispensation, God says: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: (Eph 1:10)

Are we living during "the dispensation of the Gospel" or the "dispensation of grace"? Absolutely.
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the Gospel is committed unto me. (1 Cor 9:17) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward (Eph 3:2) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God (Col 1:25)
No. Dispensations are man-made, the Bible DOES NOT TEACH dispensations. You are not quoting scriptures, you are quoting someone else.

1Cor. 9:17 (NKJV "For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship." The noun "dispensation" οἰκονομία oikonomia, simply means stewardship, administration, or management. :cool:
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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#39
Reading the OPs articles is just sickening. Pages 16 -17 of article 2 so very sad.
Beckie, I agree. I doubt very many laymen who love to hear these dispensationalists preach Revelation, are aware of how their teachers actually wish to return to the Old Covenant by becoming rank literalists starting at Ezekiel 40.

From the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary in the Introduction to Ezekiel Chapter 40

"The catholicity of the Christian dispensation, and the spirituality of its worship, seem incompatible with a return to the local narrowness and "beggarly elements" of the Jewish ritual and carnal ordinances, disannulled 'because of the unprofitableness thereof' [FAIRBAIRN], (Gal 4:3; Gal 4:9; Gal 5:1; Heb 9:10; Heb 10:18). 'A temple with sacrifices now would be a denial of the all-sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ. He who sacrificed before confessed the Messiah. He who should sacrifice now would solemnly deny Him' [DOUGLAS]."

The Scriptures quoted in full:

"This is what I mean: so long as the heir is a minor, he is no better off than a slave, even though the whole estate is his; he is subject to guardians and trustees until the date set by his father. So it was with us: during our minority we were slaves, subject to the elemental spirits of the universe, but when the appointed time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to buy freedom for those who were under the law, in order that we might attain the status of sons." (Gal 4:1-5, REB)

"But now that you do acknowledge God—or rather, now that he has acknowledged you—how can you turn back to those feeble and bankrupt elemental spirits? Why do you propose to enter their service all over again?" (Gal 4:9, REB)

"It is for freedom that Christ set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and refuse to submit again to the yoke of slavery." (Gal 5:1, REB)

"they are concerned only with food and drink and various rites of cleansing—external ordinances in force until the coming of the new order." (Heb 9:10, REB)

"And where these have been forgiven, there are no further offerings for sin." (Heb 10:18, REB)

I see no other conclusion but to see these dispensationalist teachers as judaizers of which Paul says:

"But even if we (or an angel from heaven) should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell! As we have said before, and now I say again, if any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let him be condemned to hell!" (Gal 1:8-9, NET2)
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,184
1,597
113
Midwest
#40
Reading the OPs articles is just sickening. Pages 16 -17 of article 2 so very sad.
Not sure "what is sickening" about joyfully obeying God?:

"In any dispensation, whatever God says to do in order to be saved,
that’s what the faith of men must believe and obey." (R Kurth pg 16)
By works a man is justified and not by faith only. This is not some justification before men either...just saying. Nor is James answering the question, will works follow faith?
The error in this is heartbreaking.
Precious friends, there is no heartbreaking error when The Word Of
Truth Is Dispensationally "Rightly Divided,"
and joyfully obeyed. ie:

A) God's Context of "Dispensation Of the law":

"Prophecy" {earthly} Christ TO The TWELVE, gospel of the
kingdom, ISRAEL prominent! {past/future} "faith PLUS works" =

"...he that believeth AND is baptized Shall Be SAVED!..."​
(Mark 16:16 cp Luke 7:29-30, Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38!)​

[TO: "the TWELVE tribes!" (James 1:1]:
"...faith WITHOUT works IS DEAD!..." (James 2:14, 17, 24, 26)​
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

B) God's Context of "Dispensation Of the GRACE":

"Mystery!" {Heavenly!} Christ TO "ONE apostle,"
Gospel Of GRACE, Jew And Gentile "Equal!" {Current, Today!}

FOR The Body Of CHRIST! (Rom - Phm) "GRACE Through faith"
Apart From ALL works! =

"For By GRACE are ye SAVED Through faith; and that
not of yourselves: It Is The GIFT Of God: Not of works,
lest any man should boast!" (Eph 2:8-9 cp Rom 3:24-28)

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but According TO HIS Mercy HE SAVED us, By The Washing
Of Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost!" (Tit 3:5)

-------------------------------------------
C) Marrying What [Different things] "God Has Divided"?

Mixing these [A and B] up [homogenization] is what is
causing All the Confusion, Correct?

Q: Can light and darkness (Gen 1:4) be married into ONE?
belief and UNbelief, prophecy AND MYSTERY, works AND
GRACE (Romans 11:6), etc.???

GRACE And Peace...