Teaching as one with authority

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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#1
For many many years Israel had teachers of the scriptures, and teachers of the Law. For many of those years God would send prophets to the people, men who would speak with the authority of God. But besides these men, all of the other teachers taught as those who did not have any authority. (there were no prophets until John for over 600 years when Jesus came to the people.). John comes and speaks with authority again, the authority of God in the mannor of the previous prophets, paving the way for Jesus to come.

Jesus comes and He teaches and speaks in a different way, a way that leaves the people wondering at all they have known before, and the teachers wondering at whose authority He is speaking with. For Jesus spoke not as one speaking for God, but as God Himself. This level of authority had never been seen before by the people. They were astounded and amazed at His teaching. He taught as if the words that they had heard for all of their lives were the words from His mouth, as indeed they were. He showed an intent to the words which had previously been unsuspected. And of course, He asserted His deity, His equality with God, and His place as the Christ.

Jesus taught this way by being one with the Father. He humbled Himself in obedience to the Father in all things, even to the cross. He said of His words that He spoke what He heard His Father in heaven speaking. he be ace one with the Father to the extent that He could factually say that if one had seen Him, they had seen the Father.

Then He died on the cross and was buried. On the third day He arose from the dead and asscended into heaven for a short time. He then appeared to the disciples and some others, and spent time with them in fellowship. Before He ascended for His stay until His return, He commanded the disciples to wait for the promise. He gave them no other command, (other than telling Peter to feed His sheep.)

From the time of His death there had been no teaching with authority.

Then the day of Pentacost comes, and the upper room is shaken by a great wind and tongues of fire alight on each person there. They all begin to speak in other languages, and Peter gets up and gives a 5 minute sermon which sees 3000 souls saved and filled with the Spirit.

Peter spoke in the authority of Jesus Christ, with whom he had become one.

Many miracles and signs and wonders were accomplished among the disciples, to testify of their authority. And souls were added to the body of Christ daily. God's authority was in evidence.

Who today teaches in the authority of Jesus Christ?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#2
Everyone who is a child of God who teaches or preaches or shares the word or gospel with its correct implications and applications.
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#3
Everyone who is a child of God who teaches or preaches or shares the word or gospel with its correct implications and applications.
That is not the limit of his authority.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#4
Didnt say it was....just answered one question :)
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#5
Didnt say it was....just answered one question :)
Oh. That is fine my friend. Nothing wrong with the answer at all really. But when we look at authority we look at a large scope. Like jurisdiction. Like how one law enforcer cannot step outside of his range of authority. And this is very interesting now. VERY!!

I really believe the reason we don't see many of the things in our lives that we should see is because we have a small idea of His authority. His authority is not limited!!! If we only partake of the bread and not the wine we will not have the fullness of his life in us.

His jurisdiction is not limited by us, nor flesh, nor angels, nor powers. His jurisdiction is above all powers angles and flesh. So he works in the Spiritual realm to heal, manifesting the kingdom of God on earth. So the question posed deserves a full answer.

But the full answer to that can only come from God. I would very soon say that I don't teach with the authority of Christ. I would first say that I cannot teach anyone about him as I could not teach myself but I had to learn from the Spirit who teaches in a perfect way.

May Jesus bless you.

(There are signs that followed his teachings)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#6
My answer was sufficient then. :) Just not wordy.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#8
Everyone who is a child of God who teaches or preaches or shares the word or gospel with its correct implications and applications.

yep. that's about right Abiding. ty:D
no signs and wonders needed.

the GodHead and the Gospel perform the miracle of raising dead sinners to eternal life.
that one's testimony and changed life are the signs, and this is a great wonder.
love zone.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#9
Well now, it seems that Jesus had something to say about this, saying something about there being certain signs that would be evidenced by those who were preaching His gospel.

Then again, if one is a preacher of the scriptures rather than a preacher with authority, they can pick and choose what verses they will believe.

In Christ
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
Well now, it seems that Jesus had something to say about this, saying something about there being certain signs that would be evidenced by those who were preaching His gospel.

Then again, if one is a preacher of the scriptures rather than a preacher with authority, they can pick and choose what verses they will believe.

In Christ
ya. the miraculous powers and authority He gave (His ascension gifts) to His Church: prophets and apostles ceased with them.

there are no more true prophets or true apostles: only narcissistic wanna-bees who can't accept The Acts of The Apostles is an historical text, and who refuse to give God the Glory for His pLan worked out in His way.

they appear to wrestle with those scriptures as they do the rest.

Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1
Cessationism Demonstrated & Defended - Part 1 - SermonAudio.com

Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2
Cessationism Demonstrated And Defended - Part 2 - SermonAudio.com

No More Prophets
No More Prophets - SermonAudio.com


they want the power, like Magus....i wonder if they know what it cost the apostles.


~

FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS

CHAPTER I


History of Christian Martyrs to the First General Persecutions


Under Nero


Christ our Savior, in the Gospel of St. Matthew, hearing the confession of Simon Peter, who, first of all other, openly acknowledged Him to be the Son of God, and perceiving the secret hand of His Father therein, called him (alluding to his name) a rock, upon which rock He would build His Church so strong that the gates of hell should not prevail against it. In which words three things are to be noted: First, that Christ will have a Church in this world. Secondly, that the same Church should mightily be impugned, not only by the world, but also by the uttermost strength and powers of all hell. And, thirdly, that the same Church, notwithstanding the uttermost of the devil and all his malice, should continue.

Which prophecy of Christ we see wonderfully to be verified, insomuch that the whole course of the Church to this day may seem nothing else but a verifying of the said prophecy. First, that Christ hath set up a Church, needeth no declaration. Secondly, what force of princes, kings, monarchs, governors, and rulers of this world, with their subjects, publicly and privately, with all their strength and cunning, have bent themselves against this Church! And, thirdly, how the said Church, all this notwithstanding, hath yet endured and holden its own! What storms and tempests it hath overpast, wondrous it is to behold: for the more evident declaration whereof, I have addressed this present history, to the end, first, that the wonderful works of God in His Church might appear to His glory; also that, the continuance and proceedings of the Church, from time to time, being set forth, more knowledge and experience may redound thereby, to the profit of the reader and edification of Christian faith.

As it is not our business to enlarge upon our Savior's history, either before or after His crucifixion, we shall only find it necessary to remind our readers of the discomfiture of the Jews by His subsequent resurrection. Although one apostle had betrayed Him; although another had denied Him, under the solemn sanction of an oath; and although the rest had forsaken Him, unless we may except "the disciple who was known unto the high-priest"; the history of His resurrection gave a new direction to all their hearts, and, after the mission of the Holy Spirit, imparted new confidence to their minds. The powers with which they were endued emboldened them to proclaim His name, to the confusion of the Jewish rulers, and the astonishment of Gentile proselytes.

I. St. Stephen

St. Stephen suffered the next in order. His death was occasioned by the faithful manner in which he preached the Gospel to the betrayers and murderers of Christ. To such a degree of madness were they excited, that they cast him out of the city and stoned him to death. The time when he suffered is generally supposed to have been at the passover which succeeded to that of our Lord's crucifixion, and to the era of his ascension, in the following spring.

Upon this a great persecution was raised against all who professed their belief in Christ as the Messiah, or as a prophet. We are immediately told by St. Luke, that "there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem;" and that "they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles."
About two thousand Christians, with Nicanor, one of the seven deacons, suffered martyrdom during the "persecution that arose about Stephen."

II. James the Great

The next martyr we meet with, according to St. Luke, in the History of the Apsotles' Acts, was James the son of Zebedee, the elder brother of John, and a relative of our Lord; for his mother Salome was cousin-german to the Virgin Mary. It was not until ten years after the death of Stephen that the second martyrdom took place; for no sooner had Herod Agrippa been appointed governor of Judea, than, with a view to ingratiate himself with them, he raised a sharp persecution against the Christians, and determined to make an effectual blow, by striking at their leaders. The account given us by an eminent primitive writer, Clemens Alexandrinus, ought not to be overlooked; that, as James was led to the place of martyrdom, his accuser was brought to repent of his conduct by the apostle's extraordinary courage and undauntedness, and fell down at his feet to request his pardon, professing himself a Christian, and resolving that James should not receive the crown of martyrdom alone. Hence they were both beheaded at the same time. Thus did the first apostolic martyr cheerfully and resolutely receive that cup, which he had told our Savior he was ready to drink. Timon and Parmenas suffered martyrdom about the same time; the one at Philippi, and the other in Macedonia. These events took place A.D. 44.

III. Philip

Was born at Bethsaida, in Galilee and was first called by the name of "disciple." He labored diligently in Upper Asia, and suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified, A.D. 54.

IV. Matthew

Whose occupation was that of a toll-gatherer, was born at Nazareth. He wrote his gospel in Hebrew, which was afterwards translated into Greek by James the Less. The scene of his labors was Parthia, and Ethiopia, in which latter country he suffered martyrdom, being slain with a halberd in the city of Nadabah, A.D. 60.

V. James the Less

Is supposed by some to have been the brother of our Lord, by a former wife of Joseph. This is very doubtful, and accords too much with the Catholic superstition, that Mary never had any other children except our Savior. He was elected to the oversight of the churches of Jerusalem; and was the author of the Epistle ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the age of ninety-four he was beat and stoned by the Jews; and finally had his brains dashed out with a fuller's club.

VI. Matthias

Of whom less is known than of most of the other disciples, was elected to fill the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.

VII. Andrew

Was the brother of Peter. He preached the gospel to many Asiatic nations; but on his arrival at Edessa he was taken and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground. Hence the derivation of the term, St. Andrew's Cross.

VIII. St. Mark

Was born of Jewish parents of the tribe of Levi. He is supposed to have been converted to Christianity by Peter, whom he served as an amanuensis, and under whose inspection he wrote his Gospel in the Greek language. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria, at the great solemnity of Serapis their idol, ending his life under their merciless hands.

IX. Peter

Among many other saints, the blessed apostle Peter was condemned to death, and crucified, as some do write, at Rome; albeit some others, and not without cause, do doubt thereof. Hegesippus saith that Nero sought matter against Peter to put him to death; which, when the people perceived, they entreated Peter with much ado that he would fly the city. Peter, through their importunity at length persuaded, prepared himself to avoid. But, coming to the gate, he saw the Lord Christ come to meet him, to whom he, worshipping, said, "Lord, whither dost Thou go?" To whom He answered and said, "I am come again to be crucified." By this, Peter, perceiving his suffering to be understood, returned into the city. Jerome saith that he was crucified, his head being down and his feet upward, himself so requiring, because he was (he said) unworthy to be crucified after the same form and manner as the Lord was.

X. Paul

Paul, the apostle, who before was called Saul, after his great travail and unspeakable labors in promoting the Gospel of Christ, suffered also in this first persecution under Nero. Abdias, declareth that under his execution Nero sent two of his esquires, Ferega and Parthemius, to bring him word of his death. They, coming to Paul instructing the people, desired him to pray for them, that they might believe; who told them that shortly after they should believe and be baptised at His sepulcher. This done, the soldiers came and led him out of the city to the place of execution, where he, after his prayers made, gave his neck to the sword.

XI. Jude

The brother of James, was commonly called Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa, A.D. 72.

XII. Bartholomew

Preached in several countries, and having translated the Gospel of Matthew into the language of India, he propagated it in that country. He was at length cruelly beaten and then crucified by the impatient idolaters.

XIII. Thomas

Called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where exciting the rage of the pagan priests, he was martyred by being thrust through with a spear.

XIV. Luke

The evangelist, was the author of the Gospel which goes under his name. He travelled with Paul through various countries, and is supposed to have been hanged on an olive tree, by the idolatrous priests of Greece.

XV. Simon

Surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain, in which latter country he was crucified, A.D. 74.

XVI. John

The "beloved disciple," was brother to James the Great. The churches of Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, and Thyatira, were founded by him. From Ephesus he was ordered to be sent to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterwards banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Nerva, the successor of Domitian, recalled him. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.

XVII. Barnabas

Was of Cyprus, but of Jewish descent, his death is supposed to have taken place about A.D. 73. And yet, notwithstanding all these continual persecutions and horrible punishments, the Church daily increased, deeply rooted in the doctrine of the apostles and of men apostolical, and watered plentously with the blood of saints.

FOX's Book of Martyrs
 
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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#11
The Holy Spirit has not ceased. He is still here, in those who believe. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever.
Amen!
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
So much emphasis on man..i shake my head. Just a simple faith, a love for man and honor to God and the priveledge
to do anything in the Kingdom. To be saved. To be Loved. To take that simplicity away..that spread the gospel for 2000 yrs

To a superapostle, superprophet, superwarrior demon blaster, and if ya run outa titles, and u dont qualify for the top
ones than be a prayerwarrior. Do these sound like humble positions? To me they sound all puffed up. selfpromoting.

To make the preaching of the gospel sound harder than it is and infer there is more to it than love in the heart is very suspicious.
To quibble constantly about the Holyspirit who is also God Almighty as if He needs you, just to have all His good pleasure seems
also a little scary to me. This authority business bothers me in its arrogant sound also. Jesus Christ has all absolute authority and gives
delegated authority to whom He wills. Alot of this is done to most believers who dont even know how to express it or find scripture
references for it.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#13
If you are not preaching the gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit, then it is at best weak, and at worst false.

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to us in order that we might be true witnesses to and of Him.

So, no, it is not about any man, it is about the Spirit of God, whom you disdain.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
Really? slipping in another slander piece VW? The power of the Holyspirit. You know the different greek words im sure, for power.
Then you know you are a false accuser. Since you know there is no Holyspirit button that comes at salvation.
How tell me can the Preaching of the gospel NOT be in the power of the Holyspirit? Are you saying the power
comes from us at our will? Are you saying the Holyspirit wont empower preaching? The word? Paul even commended
preaching of the gospel that came from false motives.

Now I understand about regeneration.
I understand about special endowments for special duties.
I understand about the indwelling Spirit.
But i dont understand you.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#15
See, you make it about me. It is not about me.

I did not say that there is no preaching in the power of the Holy Spirit. But do you imagine that someone who does not believe that the gifts are for today will preach in His power?

It is even written in scripture that our testimony, our witness, is the spirit of prophecy. And when Peter first preached, do you suppose he was deciding what words to preach?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#16
See, you make it about me. It is not about me.

I did not say that there is no preaching in the power of the Holy Spirit. But do you imagine that someone who does not believe that the gifts are for today will preach in His power?
It is even written in scripture that our testimony, our witness, is the spirit of prophecy. And when Peter first preached, do you suppose he was deciding what words to preach?
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You read wrong, thats ok. The answer about not believing in the gifts today. I presume your talking about zone. So i will say first of all I dont even know her since ive been here maybe a month, and yet I hear something different than you do, and from what ive read youve been here awhile, Now i dont know very much about what she believes, but i think i know what she means. And why. And i agree with her.

Now i will admit im not a cessationist completely. I believe however that the church has been established
and it will never be the same as it was, becuase there will never be another covenant changeover. I didnt say that very good. But we will not ever be the same. And also the teachings ive heard of the first century church has always been overdramatised anyway. The period of the signs and wonders was brief and limited for a purpose. signs never produce faith, just the opposite(Satan doesnt have faith, the children of Isreal in the wilderness didnt)

One thing about zone, she speaks with wisdom and the power of the Holyspirit, I seen that right off, just minutes after I got here on the first day so let that answer your question whether I think one could have the power while not believing in the gifts. I also think that God in His mercy would give a person power even if they didnt know of it. Paul wrote a correction to Corinth before they were even given instructions.

This does not mean the Church is with the scriptures only without the lifegiving Spirit of God, we wouldnt last a second. Id say im learly of gifts. If ever in the church since the new wave of charismatics (1950s) were done decently and in order as the bible instructed thats where the part that says these are the commandments of God...things wouldnt have got so wacko. But with disobedience and a slew of false spirits and human emotions prevailed we have a pot of devils in alot of these fleshpot nitemarish buildings, void of any gospel or truth, and are a dishonor to the Lord and an embarrasement to the mature well balanced church.

VW I do not believe you are a prophet, no not at all. I can tell you that I do believe in prophecy ive done it hundreds of times. But i was moved or nudged, i never was told to do it, nor ordered to do it. Nor do I believe you were either. I have never heard His voice, nor do i need to. Your merely stretching a term past its intended meaning and confusing people.

A prophecy is nothing more than the power of the spirit instantly giving you a urge to speak thats always true to the word at any given moment to say or teach something that makes the word revelant in its application to someone. Could happen from the pulpit in the message, or the whole message, could be in the forum, at work, in a casual conversation, whenever the Holyspirit wills. It happens more when my heart and conscience is clear and clean and
devoted at the time to serve, but really it isnt at our command or will. It will usually be for edification, exhortation, and comfort. It will help all or mainly one we could never know(but sometimes after we are told). And it always has to be judged by all, as with any sermon, book, teaching, forum post, or anything we hear. But this is to be for others and
never to be announced as a gift. People who hear have their ears quickenned by the Spirit also at His will and purpose and they know. Its almost like undercover work. No announcement necessary. If you have good fruit
people will be eating off you.

So thats just some of what i believe for now, and i dont care if its called prophecy whatever, the Spirit does
and will always be working and brooding over His church, giving graces(gifts) and the empowerment to
accomplish what He wills. But remember the greatest will be the servant of all. We want to strive for the footwashing position. Give up the titles, that was what the diciples moms were fighting over and the diciples
too. Let the young sheepies have their hayday and feed them pure milk.
 
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Jun 11, 2011
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#17
Let me just pray that I may be a worthy vessel to do what Jesus did and said, In His Name, let Him make me ready to serve Him and build His kingdom. I cannot imagine the gospel being preached without the power of the Spirit in all its forms. God bless U VW
Chariot72
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#18
You seem to think that I take the office of prophet as a badge of honor. You could not be more wrong. I understand that any office like apostle or prophet is actually something that does not bring honor, but rather dishonor. I don't expect you to understand that.

It is all about hearing His voice. It is all about Jesus. It is about coming to know Him personally, more and more each day, through personal two way communication. Many would say that we have scripture and so do not need to hear His voice. I vehemently disagree. It is not confusing. Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice. If someone does not believe this, then they will not hear Him. It is that simple. And how shall they believe if they do not hear? Who is teaching them.

I have no honor, nor am I due any, nor do I ask for any. All honor and all glory and all praise belongs to Jesus, and I resent that you would say that I am trying to get honor for myself. Jesus spoke about those who were seeking glory from each other; it is instructive to read that passage in it's entirety.

So, I will be the fool for you, so you can redicule to your hearts content. But do not think that I am doing anything other than teaching the little ones how to know Jesus for themselves, and to be taught of Him by Himself. He is the best, really the only Teacher who is approved of by God.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#19
Let me just pray that I may be a worthy vessel to do what Jesus did and said, In His Name, let Him make me ready to serve Him and build His kingdom. I cannot imagine the gospel being preached without the power of the Spirit in all its forms. God bless U VW
Chariot72
In every great house there are many vessels, some of gold and silver, and some of wood and clay. Let every person present his body to the Lord as a vessel, purified for His use.

Vessels are to be filled. If my vessel has something in it already, then at best it can hold less of what the Master wants to fill it with, and if that which is in my vessel is evil, then He will not be pleased with me.

Bless you in Jesus Christ,
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#20
If you are not preaching the gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit, then it is at best weak, and at worst false.

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to us in order that we might be true witnesses to and of Him.

So, no, it is not about any man, it is about the Spirit of God, whom you disdain.
no VW YOU make it about YOU by falsely accusing the brethren.

1. Abiding does NOT disdain the Holy Spirit
2. Zone DOES list qualification for someone to preach the gospel

"that one's testimony and changed life are the signs, and this is a great wonder.
love zone."

3. I was going to read the rest of the post but the one above warns me I will probably not like reading the rest so I'll send this before I read on.....

Well now, it seems that Jesus had something to say about this, saying something about there being certain signs that would be evidenced by those who were preaching His gospel.

Then again, if one is a preacher of the scriptures rather than a preacher with authority, they can pick and choose what verses they will believe.

In Christ
Yes if a preacher has authority from God they will have certain signs that would be evidenced by those who are preaching His gospel. the preacher would have a changed life and that will be their testimony and it is a great wonder....that is what zone said....

"that one's testimony and changed life are the signs, and this is a great wonder.
love zone."

what is the changed life?

they will have the Holy Spirit to guide and convict them. they will display the fruits of the spirit. they will display the maturity of a Christian who has walked with Jesus. They will have EVERY thought harnessed to the obedience of Christ and be able to punish disobedience. they will avoid foolish debates and speaking only to edify. they will have love, patience, joy, Self control, etc. they will ALWAYS point people to Jesus and God and will not spotlight themselves.

personally those are the traits I look for in any man or woman claiming to be from my Father. especially those who seek to "teach" me or my brethren.

signs and wonders, well those can be faked. A true humble obedient heart in search of God, that is a true wonder to behold.

anyways. I'll just give ya'll a few scriptures and read the rest of the responses. I have a feeling I will find more contention then edification but praying that I'm wrong....

Matthew 23:8
But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren