What is the correct biblical definition of the wrath of God, and how does it differentiate from the love of God since both attributes proceed from the same God (Father, Son, and Spirit)? Is there a contradiction?
THE WRATH OF GOD, WHAT IS IT?
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God is one.
This may help.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/what-is-gods-wrath.html
I wasn't asking for links but for opinions from the posters. I simply wanted to have a healthy discussion and discover where the mindset of the churchgoers is today.
This is a discussion group, but thanks anyway.
The correct definition of the wrath of God is found in Romans 2:8,9: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile.
The Bible says that God is angry with sinners every day. But in this Age of Grace, He is not unleashing His anger and wrath (extreme anger) on the unbelieving, the ungodly, the evildoers, and the wicked. Indeed evil is flourishing and growing by leaps and bounds. But God has reserved a time of divine judgments which will be poured out upon the earth (Revelation 6-19). Then the "winepress of the wrath of God" will go into action.
There is no conflict here with the love, grace, and mercy of God, which is presently offered to all mankind through the Gospel and through Christ. So anyone preaching the Gospel must include the wrath of God and the reason for His wrath. God is absolutely holy therefore sin must not exist in His presence. And that is exactly why Christ paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world. But those who refuse to obey the Gospel or reject Christ will indeed face the wrath of God.
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The wrath of God is interesting. For example:
• Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath
and fierce anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which
indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be
weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great
White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated
with extreme prejudice; viz: their judgment will be administered with choler.
(cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings
• Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It
speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're
actually red in the face.
There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so
coddled by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the
magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to
get them.
Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.
• John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.
• Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.
• Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
_
The wrath of God is interesting. For example:
• Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath
and fierce anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which
indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be
weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great
White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated
with extreme prejudice; viz: their judgment will be administered with choler.
(cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings
• Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It
speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're
actually red in the face.
There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so
coddled by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the
magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to
get them.
Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.
• John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.
• Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.
• Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
_
Hey, ok. Tell ya what, why don't you go first! That way you can start the "healthy discussion" you desire!
Yeah, that would just be swell!
God disciplines those who He knows are destined to come to believe and trust in His truth.. He also disciplines those who have come to believe Him but are living in a way that damages them and could cause His name to be mocked or blasphemed..
Wrath is punishment upon those who are either attacking Gods people or are committing excessive evil these people are not going to come to believe and trust in God.. Wrath is also Gods vengeance upon those who have persecuted His people..
Sometimes Christians think they are suffering from Gods wrath but they are in fact being disciplined by God..
I don't see a contradiction. As if love & anger are mutually exclusive. Especially in God's case. He is sovereign.
He is also slow to anger & long suffering. God's anger is always righteous indignation.
I also don't think that "love" is quantified by friendliness.
We are not one-dimensional beings and neither is our creator. He couldn't do more for us that die in our place
so we can live. When he shows his anger, there is good reason for it.
Jesus is The Lamb and The Lion. He comes gentle & riding a donkey. He comes with a sword, riding a white horse.
A father is gentle and playful with his own children but dangerous to anyone who would harm those children.
The Spirit of God is as a gentle dove of unfathomable peace, he is also thunder & lightning in a pillar of cloud & fire.
He is also slow to anger & long suffering. God's anger is always righteous indignation.
I also don't think that "love" is quantified by friendliness.
We are not one-dimensional beings and neither is our creator. He couldn't do more for us that die in our place
so we can live. When he shows his anger, there is good reason for it.
Jesus is The Lamb and The Lion. He comes gentle & riding a donkey. He comes with a sword, riding a white horse.
A father is gentle and playful with his own children but dangerous to anyone who would harm those children.
The Spirit of God is as a gentle dove of unfathomable peace, he is also thunder & lightning in a pillar of cloud & fire.
Hey, ok. Tell ya what, why don't you go first! That way you can start the "healthy discussion" you desire!
Yeah, that would just be swell!
Your response has no
Hey, ok. Tell ya what, why don't you go first! That way you can start the "healthy discussion" you desire!
Yeah, that would just be swell!
Hey, ok. Tell ya what, why don't you go first! That way you can start the "healthy discussion" you desire!
Yeah, that would just be swell!
I'm not interested in responding to my own questions. I have my personal notes in my Logos Library.
The Wrath of God, as explained by the Eastern Orthodox Church, is a metaphor, an anthropomorphism, i.e, a figure of speech obtained by projecting onto God some negative emotions (fury) specific to fallen man, in order to highlight the effects of actions that are contrary to the commandments expressed in the Torah (The Law of Moses).
The ancient man was dominated by instincts and lived in a violent environment. Fear was a major motivator for stopping him from doing actions that could lead to great harm, both physical and spiritual.
The Church Fathers said that there are three motivators that prevent men from sinning: the first one (the lowest, inferior one) is fear of God, the second one is shame and the third one (the highest one) is love. Saints do God's will not out of fear, but out of love. Fear of God is good, is the beginning of wisdom and of knowledge of God.
The ancient man was dominated by instincts and lived in a violent environment. Fear was a major motivator for stopping him from doing actions that could lead to great harm, both physical and spiritual.
The Church Fathers said that there are three motivators that prevent men from sinning: the first one (the lowest, inferior one) is fear of God, the second one is shame and the third one (the highest one) is love. Saints do God's will not out of fear, but out of love. Fear of God is good, is the beginning of wisdom and of knowledge of God.
Yes.. But the question at the start of this thread was asking to define the wrath of God..
Everyone's concept of God's wrath is a bit different but similar at the same time.
Mine tends to be on the rim of the pail of the bucket of orthodoxy.
Man has always recieved a measure of grace from God.
"Cursed is the earth because of you"
The earth is cursed to eventual destruction because it is holy but was never created with the ability to forgive. Only those who forgive live forever.
So exceeding that level of common grace will cause you to suffer the consequences.
And one day that hand of protection of grace will be removed from those who reject God. The fury of the universe will be hot after them. Holy is a state of existence that self regulates to purity and free from defect as well as good. Sinful mankind doesn't stand a chance.
Mine tends to be on the rim of the pail of the bucket of orthodoxy.
Man has always recieved a measure of grace from God.
"Cursed is the earth because of you"
The earth is cursed to eventual destruction because it is holy but was never created with the ability to forgive. Only those who forgive live forever.
So exceeding that level of common grace will cause you to suffer the consequences.
And one day that hand of protection of grace will be removed from those who reject God. The fury of the universe will be hot after them. Holy is a state of existence that self regulates to purity and free from defect as well as good. Sinful mankind doesn't stand a chance.
Isaiah 63:
Who is this coming from Edom,
from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor,
striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
"It is I, proclaiming victory.
mighty to save."
Why are your garments red,
like those of one treading the winepress?
"I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.
It was for me the day of vengeance;
the year for me to redeem had come.
I looked but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm achieved salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me."
I will tell of the kindness of the Lord,
the deeds for which he is to be praised,
according to all the Lord has done for us -
yes, the many good things
he has done for Israel,
according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
He said, "Surely they are my people,
children who will be true to me";
and so he became their Savior.
The verses in bold made quite an impression on me; I was laying in my bed (it was the Thursday morning of the Ascension of the Lord) and I was debating in myself whether to attend the Divine Liturgy or not. My child was at kindergarden, my husband at work and I was at home, waisting my time. I decided not to go because, I said to myself, it probably had already begun and I just might stay in bed and read from the Pentecostarion (an orthodox liturgical book) the texts that correspond to the holiday of the Ascension. As I was reading, I reached to the prophecy of Isaiah... in less than 15 minutes I was at church, on the first bench.
Who is this coming from Edom,
from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor,
striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
"It is I, proclaiming victory.
mighty to save."
Why are your garments red,
like those of one treading the winepress?
"I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.
It was for me the day of vengeance;
the year for me to redeem had come.
I looked but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm achieved salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me."
I will tell of the kindness of the Lord,
the deeds for which he is to be praised,
according to all the Lord has done for us -
yes, the many good things
he has done for Israel,
according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
He said, "Surely they are my people,
children who will be true to me";
and so he became their Savior.
The verses in bold made quite an impression on me; I was laying in my bed (it was the Thursday morning of the Ascension of the Lord) and I was debating in myself whether to attend the Divine Liturgy or not. My child was at kindergarden, my husband at work and I was at home, waisting my time. I decided not to go because, I said to myself, it probably had already begun and I just might stay in bed and read from the Pentecostarion (an orthodox liturgical book) the texts that correspond to the holiday of the Ascension. As I was reading, I reached to the prophecy of Isaiah... in less than 15 minutes I was at church, on the first bench.
No. God is Just as well as Good.
Justice and vindication against those who have rejected His beloved Son and offended His beloved children.
John 3:
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Love nature does not exclude justice, fairness, and judgement upon those who reject that love.
>
We can't exclude the love of God as the principal attribute that defines who He is (Father, Son, and Spirit). So, what is the biblical definition of God's love?
This was my original question: << What is the correct biblical definition of the wrath of God, and how does it differentiate from the love of God since both attributes proceed from the same God (Father, Son, and Spirit)? Is there a contradiction? >>
So, we (sort of) understand what God's wrath is, but how do we define God's love recognizing that both His wrath and His love (agape) proceed from the same person?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
>
Quoting scripture does not define the love of God. Most Christians are experts in the wrath of God, including defiling His holy name by attributing unholy wrath against His own Son.
Defining God's love which is God's number one attribute where all others fall into place, is the most difficult attribute to explain in plain words because most of us see God as other than love (1Jn 4:8, 16).
God bless brother.
God loves us with a crazy love while Satan hates us with a savage hatred.