Teaching as one with authority

[AnandaHya]

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I believe however that the church has been established and it will never be the same as it was, becuase there will never be another covenant changeover.

I also think that God in His mercy would give a person power even if they didnt know of it.

This does not mean the Church is with the scriptures only without the lifegiving Spirit of God, we wouldnt last a second.

A prophecy is nothing more than the power of the spirit instantly giving you a urge to speak thats always true to the word at any given moment to say or teach something that makes the word revelant in its application to someone.

But this is to be for others and never to be announced as a gift. People who hear have their ears quickenned by the Spirit also at His will and purpose and they know. Its almost like undercover work. No announcement necessary.

So thats just some of what i believe for now, and i dont care if its called prophecy whatever, the Spirit does
and will always be working and brooding over His church, giving graces(gifts) and the empowerment to
accomplish what He wills. But remember the greatest will be the servant of all. We want to strive for the footwashing position. Give up the titles, that was what the diciples moms were fighting over and the diciples
too. Let the young sheepies have their hayday and feed them pure milk.

Hi Abiding, how are you this morning

I decided not to address double minded people. You know God taught me that? Not to listen to Satan's lies but instead remember various scriptures and stuff. I guess I'm still waiting for my teeth to grow in. <sigh>

thank you for your words. lol you reacted kinder then my thoughts. I especially like what you said about how the Holy Spirit "will always be working and brooding over His church, giving graces (gifts) and the empowerment to accomplish what He wills". and I took out the statement that I especially liked about your message thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

These Bible verse comes to mind

James 4:7-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

1 John 1:5-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

anyway I'm going to find a meadow and have a hayday

 

[Red33]

The test for any gift in the believer's life is the ability to do away with it by laying it aside and still be able to have fellowship with the living God and with one another, still be motivated by the love of God, still be able to be filled with the Spirit, still have faith to believe God and still be able to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. Gifts of the Spirit are given to edify the members of God's body in the work of the ministry. Most of the time these gifts are exercised in private (one on one) and become an asset to assist believers in the church to what they have been called by God to do in the will of God. These gifts of the Spirit are not independent of the body and should not be exercised in that manner either. Any gift exercised outside the body of Christ will not have the benefit and intended purpose for which it was given and will not have the authority of grace for its exercise and outcome.

All gifts of the Spirit that are not imputed by God are temporary and have a purpose in the plan of God. In the plan of God these gifts are given and distributed severally to every man in the will of God. The only authority that any of these gifts have is when the grace of God, through the Holy Spirit, is utilized in the administering of that gift to edify and build up the members of the body, the church. God will only give those gifts that are needed to edify and build up each member in the unity of the faith and for the work of the ministry. Any gift that does not promote unity and oneness in the faith and for the work of the ministry will cease to have a function in the body of Christ.

Division and confusion and strife come into the body of Christ and the church when we have believers, that love God, but have a desire for certain gifts of the Spirit that are not needed or necessary for edification, for promoting unity in the faith nor aid in the work of the ministry. The gifts of the Spirit are never meant in any way to substitute or replace the teaching and expounding of the word and doctrine. They are not given to aid or assist in the worship of God that we have been given in spirit and truth. Those that desire certain gifts that are no longer needed or necessary should be hungering and thirsting after God's righteousness and having a heart after God through His word, through faith, through the love of God and by taking up their cross, which will give them the authority they need to walk in the light and reveal Christ in the details of life.

 

[zone]

In every great house there are many vessels, some of gold and silver, and some of wood and clay. Let every person present his body to the Lord as a vessel, purified for His use.

Vessels are to be filled. If my vessel has something in it already, then at best it can hold less of what the Master wants to fill it with, and if that which is in my vessel is evil, then He will not be pleased with me.

Bless you in Jesus Christ,

2 Timothy 2
1You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. 3Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs&#8212;he wants to please his commanding officer. 5Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor&#8217;s crown unless he competes according to the rules. 6The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 7Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God&#8217;s word is not chained. 10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

A Workman Approved by God
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God&#8217;s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: &#8220;The Lord knows those who are his,&#8221;a and, &#8220;Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.&#8221;

20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23Don&#8217;t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord&#8217;s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

~

we see Paul mentoring Timothy: not once do we ever see Paul tell Timothy he was passing on a gift or office of Apostle or Prophet.

not once do we read of Timothy performing miracles or showing accompanying signs and wonders with his work.

shouldn't Paul be listing how to control or manifest or pray for powers starting about verse 22?

we see Paul training Timothy to be a pastor and teacher.

that's it.

 

[zone]

we see Paul training Timothy to be a pastor and teacher.

that's it.

Ephesians 4:11
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers

 

[unclefester]

In every great house there are many vessels, some of gold and silver, and some of wood and clay. Let every person present his body to the Lord as a vessel, purified for His use.

Vessels are to be filled. If my vessel has something in it already, then at best it can hold less of what the Master wants to fill it with, and if that which is in my vessel is evil, then He will not be pleased with me.

Bless you in Jesus Christ,

He is the Vine....we are the branches. We can do no good thing without Him.....including purifying our own vessels. It is not about what we must do .....it is about what Christ has already done....period. Faith in Christ pleases God. Nothing else. And it goes without saying that faith without works is no faith at all. But make no mistake about it. It is our faith that is counted as righteousness. Faith that is born of a humble and contrite heart unto repentance. Those who have received this precious gift from God do not disdain His Holy Spirit. They love and honor Him. For we recognize that it was the Spirit's work only that brought us to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. This is the Spirit's purpose. And many of us don't require proof of His indwelling via signs and wonders a la heavenly languages and such as His Spirit testifies with our own that we are His.

 

[Abiding]

The test for any gift in the believer's life is the ability to do away with it by laying it aside and still be able to have fellowship with the living God and with one another, still be motivated by the love of God, still be able to be filled with the Spirit, still have faith to believe God and still be able to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ. Gifts of the Spirit are given to edify the members of God's body in the work of the ministry. Most of the time these gifts are exercised in private (one on one) and become an asset to assist believers in the church to what they have been called by God to do in the will of God. These gifts of the Spirit are not independent of the body and should not be exercised in that manner either. Any gift exercised outside the body of Christ will not have the benefit and intended purpose for which it was given and will not have the authority of grace for its exercise and outcome.

All gifts of the Spirit that are not imputed by God are temporary and have a purpose in the plan of God. In the plan of God these gifts are given and distributed severally to every man in the will of God. The only authority that any of these gifts have is when the grace of God, through the Holy Spirit, is utilized in the administering of that gift to edify and build up the members of the body, the church. God will only give those gifts that are needed to edify and build up each member in the unity of the faith and for the work of the ministry. Any gift that does not promote unity and oneness in the faith and for the work of the ministry will cease to have a function in the body of Christ.

Division and confusion and strife come into the body of Christ and the church when we have believers, that love God, but have a desire for certain gifts of the Spirit that are not needed or necessary for edification, for promoting unity in the faith nor aid in the work of the ministry. The gifts of the Spirit are never meant in any way to substitute or replace the teaching and expounding of the word and doctrine. They are not given to aid or assist in the worship of God that we have been given in spirit and truth. Those that desire certain gifts that are no longer needed or necessary should be hungering and thirsting after God's righteousness and having a heart after God through His word, through faith, through the love of God and by taking up their cross, which will give them the authority they need to walk in the light and reveal Christ in the details of life.

I dont know as yet if I just was reproved or not. If so i can listen and comply with the body here rather than go this alone. Its like a burr on my sock, id like it off will wait for input. ty Red

 

[zone]

Let me just pray that I may be a worthy vessel to do what Jesus did and said, In His Name, let Him make me ready to serve Him and build His kingdom. I cannot imagine the gospel being preached without the power of the Spirit in all its forms. God bless U VW
Chariot72

hi chariot.
how was it you believed the gospel?
was it by miracles or signs and wonders? or was it agreement with God through the preaching of the word that you were a sinner in need of a Saviour?

didn't the Holy Spirit fulfill His Commission to convict you of sin and unbelief, and to convince you that God delivered up Jesus in your place? isn't He renewing your mind and transforming you day by day?

i suppose if you are waiting for miraculous powers before you serve The Lord 2 things will happen:

1) you'll never serve the Lord.
2) you'll seek signs and wonders.

Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

1 Corinthians 14
Other languages, then, are meant to be a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is meant, not for unbelievers, but for believers.

do we realize that there was no New Testament canon yet?
that these things were still being revealed through the ascension gifts?

i wonder why we can't research the time in history; geography; modes of transport; separation of the nations by language and culture (a result of God's judgment at the Tower of Babel...etc.) and understand what really happened at Pentecost.

 

[zone]

He is the Vine....we are the branches. We can do no good thing without Him.....including purifying our own vessels. It is not about what we must do .....it is about what Christ has already done....period. Faith in Christ pleases God. Nothing else. And it goes without saying that faith without works is no faith at all. But make no mistake about it. It is our faith that is counted as righteousness. Faith that is born of a humble and contrite heart unto repentance. Those who have received this precious gift from God do not disdain His Holy Spirit. They love and honor Him. For we recognize that it was the Spirit's work only that brought us to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. This is the Spirit's purpose. And many of us don't require proof of His indwelling via signs and wonders a la heavenly languages and such as His Spirit testifies with our own that we are His.

..AMEN..

 

[VW]

hi chariot.
how was it you believed the gospel?
was it by miracles or signs and wonders? or was it agreement with God through the preaching of the word that you were a sinner in need of a Saviour?

didn't the Holy Spirit fulfill His Commission to convict you of sin and unbelief, and to convince you that God delivered up Jesus in your place? isn't He renewing your mind and transforming you day by day?

i suppose if you are waiting for miraculous powers before you serve The Lord 2 things will happen:

1) you'll never serve the Lord.
2) you'll seek signs and wonders.

Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

1 Corinthians 14
Other languages, then, are meant to be a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is meant, not for unbelievers, but for believers.

do we realize that there was no New Testament canon yet?
that these things were still being revealed through the ascension gifts?

i wonder why we can't research the time in history; geography; modes of transport; separation of the nations by language and culture (a result of God's judgment at the Tower of Babel...etc.) and understand what really happened at Pentecost.

These people were asking Jesus for a sign to show that He was the Christ. The were looking for an excuse to not believe. This is another misuse of scripture.

In Christ,

 

[VW]

He is the Vine....we are the branches. We can do no good thing without Him.....including purifying our own vessels. It is not about what we must do .....it is about what Christ has already done....period. Faith in Christ pleases God. Nothing else. And it goes without saying that faith without works is no faith at all. But make no mistake about it. It is our faith that is counted as righteousness. Faith that is born of a humble and contrite heart unto repentance. Those who have received this precious gift from God do not disdain His Holy Spirit. They love and honor Him. For we recognize that it was the Spirit's work only that brought us to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. This is the Spirit's purpose. And many of us don't require proof of His indwelling via signs and wonders a la heavenly languages and such as His Spirit testifies with our own that we are His.

So you supose that once you have been saved and cleansed by the Holy Spirit, that He maybe might want to use you in some small way, like tell give you the words to lead an unbeliever to Christ?

That is teaching in authority.

 

[VW]

2 Timothy 2
1You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. 3Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer. 5Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor’s crown unless he competes according to the rules. 6The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 7Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. 10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
11Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

A Workman Approved by God
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,”a and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

~

we see Paul mentoring Timothy: not once do we ever see Paul tell Timothy he was passing on a gift or office of Apostle or Prophet.

not once do we read of Timothy performing miracles or showing accompanying signs and wonders with his work.

shouldn't Paul be listing how to control or manifest or pray for powers starting about verse 22?

we see Paul training Timothy to be a pastor and teacher.

that's it.

And yet Paul wished that we all prophesy. All. Everyone. There is a very good reason for this, which I have tried to show, but you do not believe.

Your choice.

In Christ,

 

[VW]

Hi Abiding, how are you this morning

I decided not to address double minded people. You know God taught me that? Not to listen to Satan's lies but instead remember various scriptures and stuff. I guess I'm still waiting for my teeth to grow in. <sigh>

thank you for your words. lol you reacted kinder then my thoughts. I especially like what you said about how the Holy Spirit "will always be working and brooding over His church, giving graces (gifts) and the empowerment to accomplish what He wills". and I took out the statement that I especially liked about your message thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

These Bible verse comes to mind

James 4:7-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

1 John 1:5-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

anyway I'm going to find a meadow and have a hayday

Abiding is wrong about the church, and about what she can be. There are examples of times when the church changed entire nations, through the power of the Holy Spirit. No covenant changeover then. Barely 100 years ago.

His reasoning is faulty.

In Christ,

 

[AnandaHya]

Abiding is wrong about the church, and about what she can be. There are examples of times when the church changed entire nations, through the power of the Holy Spirit. No covenant changeover then. Barely 100 years ago.

His reasoning is faulty.

In Christ,

Ok enlighten us VW. How is his reasoning faulty?

what happened 100 years ago?

What can the church be?

Can you give us some examples of how the church changed entire nations through the power of the Holy Spirit, please?

Thanks, history is one of my worst topics so it would be really edifying....

this should be interesting (anyone want popcorn?)

 

[zone]

So you supose that once you have been saved and cleansed by the Holy Spirit, that He maybe might want to use you in some small way, like tell give you the words to lead an unbeliever to Christ?

That is teaching in authority.

ya Fester.
don't you want to prophesy doom on the church?
you'd look like you had some authority.

Anyone who has the gift of prophecy, or has been called as a prophet, will understand when I say that I did not want to make this post. But the voice of the Lord is not insistent, but rather quietly leading one to do as He wishes. I have from the Lord that I am not to answer critical words any more. So, in obedience to Him, hear these words or not.

In Christ

The testing has started. The dross will be removed from the gold and silver. Those who will not come to Me will not get many more chances. Those who lie about Me will grow even harder in their hearts. Those who do not love Me will go astray, and stumble, and fall. And My servants will prevail, just as I prevailed.

I set a choice before you, with a question. Do you love Me? Will you follow Me? Will you become My servants? Or will you continue to love the knowledge of Me? Will you still follow what you believe? Will you still serve yourself and your pride? Will you live in Me?

Not all that you believe is from Me. And not all that you do is pleasing in My sight. And not all that you say or think is of faith. But My servants will not be so in the days to come. Everything they believe will be from Me, and they will speak My words, and they will do the things that are pleasing in My sight. And I will love them.

I hate your assemblies. I loath your offerings. I despise your service. Your prayers I do not hear, because they are for your own lusts. Your hands are dirty, and your lips have become numb. Your ears do not hear, nor do your eyes see. Who among you has a soft heart? Who is seeking truth in My Father's presence? Who has lost themselves for Me and to Me? Who has lost every other love, to know My love? Who has become My servant?

I am coming quickly. I am coming with a sword. I am coming to make war, to make an end, a complete ending of all the lies. I am coming to reward My servants, and to gather those who love My appearing. Will you be ashamed at My appearing, or will you have great joy? Either way, I am coming quickly.

 

[zone]

And yet Paul wished that we all prophesy. All. Everyone. There is a very good reason for this, which I have tried to show, but you do not believe.

Your choice.

In Christ,

Acts of the Apostles: historical account of the miraculous birth of the christian church.

thrilling, amazing, absolutely true.

what has that to do with your outrageous claims except to verify the falsity of them?

you were not a prophet yesterday and neither are you today.

 

[AnandaHya]

aww zone I wanted to see VW version of a world changing event.

he said it happened less then 100 years ago and this is the first I've heard of it.

now he might go off in a huff and not tell me cuz you hurt his feelings

 

[zone]

aww zone I wanted to see VW version of a world changing event.

he said it happened less then 100 years ago and this is the first I've heard of it.

now he might go off in a huff and not tell me cuz you hurt his feelings

continual gaping drymouthatosis.
cranial keyboard embedment syndrome.

 

[Red33]

And yet Paul wished that we all prophesy. All. Everyone. There is a very good reason for this, which I have tried to show, but you do not believe.

Your choice.

In Christ,

Here is my prophesy.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE! That is a prophesy and a promise from God. Do you see it and can you hear it?

This prophesy is fulfilled every time we share this message with another and they believe. We can't get anymore prophetic then that! Yes, I desire to prophecy that others may believe and be saved through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is because of the many prophecies that He fulfilled that man can be saved by simple faith without works.

We all prophecy and can prophecy this great event and speak the truth that came from the mouth of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the VOICE OF GOD and message that we hear coming from our Lord and Savior. This is the message that we are to take into all the world as the gospel with the promise that Jesus will go with us. This is the message that the Holy Spirit reveals in our hearts through the love of God. This is the message that seeks out and saves the lost sinner and OH, how lost we were, but we have been sought out and found all by mercy and grace and through being drawn to Him through His lovingkindness.

 

[VW]

Ok enlighten us VW. How is his reasoning faulty?

what happened 100 years ago?

What can the church be?

Can you give us some examples of how the church changed entire nations through the power of the Holy Spirit, please?

Thanks, history is one of my worst topics so it would be really edifying....

this should be interesting (anyone want popcorn?)

Just one, the revival in Wales.

Look it up.

They cops all lost their jobs. (No one to arrest and no one to keep in jail.) There were no prostitutes at all, left in the entire nation. The mules that brought the coal out of the mines could not understand their drivers any more, because they had quit cussing completely. These are just a very few examples of the things that happened there.

And this is not an isolated example. It has happened in many other places.

In Christ,

 

[VW]

continual gaping drymouthatosis.
cranial keyboard embedment syndrome.

My feelings are not hurt. I am a fool for Jesus. Worthy of shame.

My brother in law is visiting and I have been busy. I hope you all do not mind.

In Christ,