The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed?

chess-player · Jul 31, 2022

Actually, it is the other way around. I don't make things up. I own a large library of Dictionaries, Hebrew and Greek Lexicons, Interlinear, Commentaries, and a number of translations that I can use for text comparison. I can also find anything from the bible as I also have a search engine that allows me to find information instantly. My Library is called Logos.

Humility is the crown of true believers.

ResidentAlien · Aug 1, 2022

Jesusfollower said:

That makes sense in a way. Is it your belief then that the "kingdom" Jesus referred to in Luke 17:20 is the one that He sets up on earth at the end of the age, not the one He established by His death and resurrection?

John146 · Aug 1, 2022

Beckie said:

Every word of God has meaning, therefore, the kingdom of heaven is not the same as the kingdom of God. Simply put, the word heaven and God are not the same and are not interchangeable. God created the heaven. God is a spirit, heaven is a physical place.

John146 · Aug 1, 2022

chess-player said:

Actually, it is the other way around. I don't make things up. I own a large library of Dictionaries, Hebrew and Greek Lexicons, Interlinear, Commentaries, and a number of translations that I can use for text comparison. I can also find anything from the bible as I also have a search engine that allows me to find information instantly. My Library is called Logos.

Humility is the crown of true believers.

My King James Bible trumps all those.😉

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

John146 said:

Take the time to compare the the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven.

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

The Kingdom in spiritual terms does not come with physical signs / obervations.. But the Future Physical Kingdom of God will have physical signs leading up to it's eventual foundation..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

The Word clearly say "MY Kingdom is not of this world" . Why do dispensationalist keep attempting to make it of this world. Odd how most dispensationalist also say "I take the Word of God literally.

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

Beckie said:

When people become a Christian they become Spiritual citizens of Gods eternal Kingdom.. So they are in the kingdom from that time on.. But if one believes in prophecy of the actual return of Jesus to earth and the establishment of His Kingdom on earth then those who are citizens of His Spiritual kingdom today will also be citizens of that physical Kingdom that will be established on earth upon the return of Jesus on earth..

Acknowledging the future physical kingdom of God is NOT denying the current Spiritual kingdom of God.. Nor is it denying that members of the Spiritual kingdom of God will be members of the future physical kingdom of God..

The Bible gives scriptures describing Both the stages of the Kingdom of God accepting both is not undermining one..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

The Bible literally tells us the Kingdom of God is .

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

The Jewish leaders 2000 years ago rejected that idea, AS do Dispensationalist today . As in 2000 thousand years ago humans tend to want a big show a palace a throne seating . Jesus didnt or He would have had it

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

Beckie said:

Again Righteousness peace and Joy will be had in the future physical kingdom of God on earth.. Stating this does not deny that in the current Spiritual kingdom of God the same things can be had.. Of course they can be had in both and will be had in both.. Again The current spiritual kingdom of God does not exclue a future physical kingdom of God..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

He says My kingdom is not of this world .
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek

for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

If those things will be added unto you are those things far off in the future?

studentoftheword · Aug 1, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

my view on this

No ----Jesus is still alive here ----The Kingdom of God is at Hand ---but not here yet ---------the Kingdom of God only comes after Jesus dies and sends the Holy Spirit to indwell in the person -------There are no physical observations of receiving the Holy Spirit it is only by Faith that one receives the Holy Spirit ---the Kingdom of God is within -----and therefore there is no physical outward observation that one can see the Holt Spirit coming to indwell the person ---it is all inward ---a heart change -----plus it happens in an instance -----it happens as soon as one believes and receives Jesus as their Lord and Saviour -----

Receiving the Kingdom of God is an internal Spiritual Kingdom ------and is not visible receiving it -----

What is visible happens after the Kingdom of God is manifested inside ------then the visible signs of having been Changed from the inside out become observable by others ------

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

Beckie said:

This scripture does not state that the future physical kingdom of God will not be established by Jesus upon his return.. I don't know why you are so opposed to the Kingdom of God in it's future physical manifestation..

Jesus is going to return to earth in Physical form at the second coming.. His feet will touch down on the mount of olives.. And He will rule the earth for 1000 years.. This is clearly revealed in prophecy..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

You choose to believe dispensational teaching . I no longer do.

Let me ask you this Do you believe the resurrection is before or after the 1000 years?

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

Beckie said:

The resurrection of the Saints happens on the day of the return of Jesus.. So at the start of the 1000 years..

The resurrection of the rest of mankind is at the end of the 1000 years..

So I believe there are two resurrections

Now let me know if that is a dispensationist belief? Because i am not very clear know what dispensationsim actually is..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

Thank you for the reply it really helps in my understanding your thoughts.
This is what Jesus says about the resurrection.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The words i have underlined are part of the reason i no longer accept dispensational teaching as truth.

Jesus literally says hour and last day. He does not speak of a 1000 year gap or waiting time . He also say it is the last day. He does not say the last of something He simply says last day. How will man count 1000 years if there are no days .

Rev_22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

John146 said:

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

More in another post

ResidentAlien · Aug 1, 2022

Adstar said:

But it came with a lot of fanfare, signs & wonders, etc. That's why I'm curious what Jesus meant when He said the kingdom doesn't come with signs, or "observation." The NASB and the KJV/NKJV translate it differently and they seem to have slightly different meanings.

Adstar · Aug 1, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Because we first enter into the Kingdom of God Spiritually.. So the Kingdom of God comes not with observation but with accepting the Gospel truth..

Later.. After we have already entered the Kingdom shall we take part in the physical manifestation of the Kingdom..

The Pharisees who where asking Jesus to tell them when the kingdom would come had a purely physical idea of the Kingdom of God.. Jesus was trying to dispel from their minds the belief that the kingdom would not come until the physical kingdom was established on earth.. They had to become part of the Kingdom in spirit first and later upon the resurrection of the Saints would they have part in the physical stage of the Kingdom..

Beckie · Aug 1, 2022

John146 said:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Mar 4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it

Mar 4:31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Mat_19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mar_10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luk_18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that can be observed?

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