Church Discipline

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Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#21
Jul 12, 2021
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#21
Matthew 18: 15-17 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

When we add "staff" or "office" to the church discipline discussion we muddy the waters with local and federal employment laws.

The passage above is about how to deal with a brother and his sin. The purpose of which is to "gain your brother". The Lord has in mind to save the one in sin from his darkness. This is approached with love.

Mind you, you cannot "love the sin out of them". That is, ignore the sin and simply fellowship with them. No. That leads to a compromised church. In the end, if the brother does not repent, then the fellowship with him stops. At that time the church is to hand him over to Satan.

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

This is the last effort, by the Lord, to restore the man. This is typically accompanied by much suffering.

We do not want the Lord to have to deal with us directly in this manner. But, if we refuse the voice of those He sends us, the Lord is obligated to do so out of His love for us.

Personally, I've disciplined six people in such a way in various levels. Three of the six repented and we walk together. Three did not. After a while the Lord left those three to their own choices. They are as insignificant to the Kingdom as one can be, living like the heathens. Interestingly, they all attend a church service on Sundays.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#22
Sep 17, 2016
8,846
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#22
Aaron56 said:
Matthew 18: 15-17 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

When we add "staff" or "office" to the church discipline discussion we muddy the waters with local and federal employment laws.

The passage above is about how to deal with a brother and his sin. The purpose of which is to "gain your brother". The Lord has in mind to save the one in sin from his darkness. This is approached with love.

Mind you, you cannot "love the sin out of them". That is, ignore the sin and simply fellowship with them. No. That leads to a compromised church. In the end, if the brother does not repent, then the fellowship with him stops. At that time the church is to hand him over to Satan.

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

This is the last effort, by the Lord, to restore the man. This is typically accompanied by much suffering.

We do not want the Lord to have to deal with us directly in this manner. But, if we refuse the voice of those He sends us, the Lord is obligated to do so out of His love for us.

Personally, I've disciplined six people in such a way in various levels. Three of the six repented and we walk together. Three did not. After a while the Lord left those three to their own choices. They are as insignificant to the Kingdom as one can be, living like the heathens. Interestingly, they all attend a church service on Sundays.
Click to expand...
Great post. So of the 3 that are unrepentant what made you all not release them to Satan?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#23
Sep 17, 2016
8,846
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113
#23
Aaron56 said:
Matthew 18: 15-17 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

When we add "staff" or "office" to the church discipline discussion we muddy the waters with local and federal employment laws.

The passage above is about how to deal with a brother and his sin. The purpose of which is to "gain your brother". The Lord has in mind to save the one in sin from his darkness. This is approached with love.

Mind you, you cannot "love the sin out of them". That is, ignore the sin and simply fellowship with them. No. That leads to a compromised church. In the end, if the brother does not repent, then the fellowship with him stops. At that time the church is to hand him over to Satan.

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

This is the last effort, by the Lord, to restore the man. This is typically accompanied by much suffering.

We do not want the Lord to have to deal with us directly in this manner. But, if we refuse the voice of those He sends us, the Lord is obligated to do so out of His love for us.

Personally, I've disciplined six people in such a way in various levels. Three of the six repented and we walk together. Three did not. After a while the Lord left those three to their own choices. They are as insignificant to the Kingdom as one can be, living like the heathens. Interestingly, they all attend a church service on Sundays.
Click to expand...
How long should one be in repentance? And how long until they are restored to a position like the band, pastor, elder, or serve teams?
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#24
Jul 12, 2021
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#24
Roughsoul1991 said:
Great post. So of the 3 that are unrepentant what made you all not release them to Satan?
Click to expand...
Of those 3, 1 repented before I released him so there was no need. The other two showed up at my door looking like hammered dog poop. They were ready to repent. Mind you, I had not spoken to them for a very long time.

Of all three who were restored, I scheduled a meal with the saints and them. The direction I previously gave to the saints was to "not eat with them" while they were handed over, so the meal was to put an end to that time. I also served bread and wine, the Lord's Supper, so that the enemy would not have any means to accuse the ones who had been restored.

This was several years ago, maybe 7 or 8, and all of them have a close relationship with me today.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#25
Jul 12, 2021
2,794
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#25
Roughsoul1991 said:
How long should one be in repentance? And how long until they are restored to a position like the band, pastor, elder, or serve teams?
Click to expand...
We do not have offices or staff.

But, once they were restored, I was sure to recognize and acknowledge, in the company of the saints, who they were in the Lord. Gifts and callings are irrevocable, so it was important set the standard for the saints to recognize them in the Lord.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#27
Apr 21, 2021
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#27
Roughsoul1991 said:
Okay so I am just curious at how you all would deal with certain scenarios as either an individual or as the church.

If a man on staff has committed an emotional affair.

How do you handle
If a woman on staff is pregnant but not married.

If a man on staff comes out as gay.

If people come in to attend but continue living in unrepentant sin then how long do you risk the leavening of the church?

Do you often implement the witness of 2 or 3 and how often like in Paul's example do you cast someone back over into Satan's grips with hopes of bringing godly repentance and reconciliation?

So how do you correct or rebuke as an individual or discipline as a church?
Click to expand...
Why do you ask? Is it all hypothetical or do you have these situations in the congregation you attend?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#28
Sep 17, 2016
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#28
ResidentAlien said:
Why do you ask? Is it all hypothetical or do you have these situations in the congregation you attend?
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Really curiosity but I have seen all these situations and the church deal with them or not deal with them. Plus I have recently had to be of one to correct and rebuke a brother in love that turned into repentance.

So I was curious at how other people or churches carry out this stuff.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#29
Apr 21, 2021
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#29
I'm not in an oversight position so I'd go to an overseer and talk to them about my concerns. I may not be privy to all that goes on behind the scenes, but if it appears that nothing ever changes for the better, I'd leave that group. A congregation will never rise above the level of its leadership. In other words, if the overseers are lazy and apathetic so will be the rest of the group; nothing will ever change.

I'd be cautious about approaching someone personally unless I knew them very well and knew my "advice" would do more good than harm.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#30
Sep 17, 2016
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#30
ResidentAlien said:
I'm not in an oversight position so I'd go to an overseer and talk to them about my concerns. I may not be privy to all that goes on behind the scenes, but if it appears that nothing ever changes for the better, I'd leave that group. A congregation will never rise above the level of its leadership. In other words, if the overseers are lazy and apathetic so will be the rest of the group; nothing will ever change.

I'd be cautious about approaching someone personally unless I knew them very well and knew my "advice" would do more good than harm.
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Yeah, in one event they made one of them step down from the band and after a few months they were allowed back on stage but they contributed to a in progress divorce and the family still attends the church.

I felt like regardless of repentance that was disrespectful to the family involved.

As for the one I addressed, he was a good friend of mine.
 
Lifted_by_the_word

Lifted_by_the_word

Senior Member
#31
Feb 21, 2016
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#31
I remember my mother might have had a affair with one of the pastors in a church we attended back when I was very young.The wife found out and then the church kicked us out of 'heaven.' Lol.That's what they did.My gullible mother actually believed them.That church was terrible.Even being that young I knew something was wrong with that church.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#32
May 23, 2012
13,007
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#32
Roughsoul1991 said:
Okay so I am just curious at how you all would deal with certain scenarios as either an individual or as the church.

If a man on staff has committed an emotional affair.

How do you handle
If a woman on staff is pregnant but not married.

If a man on staff comes out as gay.

If people come in to attend but continue living in unrepentant sin then how long do you risk the leavening of the church?

Do you often implement the witness of 2 or 3 and how often like in Paul's example do you cast someone back over into Satan's grips with hopes of bringing godly repentance and reconciliation?

So how do you correct or rebuke as an individual or discipline as a church?
Click to expand...
well,

I have personally had to deal with these all and more than once.

Each person's situation is all different and needs discernment and understanding and compassion and correction.

Tools to use and are a must:

  • The word of God
  • prayer
  • godly counsel
  • witnesses

the term "emotional affairs" are PC for adultery in the mind where the physical activity has not happened yet. Jesus said In Matthew that is adultery. This happens for many reasons. and the list is long and I will just give you a few:

  1. wife or husband talks about their spouse to a person of the opposite sex and about their shortfalls
  2. has martial issues and this person brings the emotional attention not getting with the spouse.
They must be addressed by the Pastor or elders and separation must happen to counsel.


Pregnant women on staff who is not married. This is not uncommon. Yet what is her job? Many young people make adult decisions that no one has control over. Do we remove her? All this depends on the person what if she was sexually abused? it is, not a one-size-fits. We must pray, Ask God to look in his word, and get others (mature Elders) to help restore the person. Removing a person is easy helping them after work.



man come out Gay. We must address the issues as to why he is gay and what is it he wants to do.
Doesn't he want freedom from this or acceptance? case by case.


UNrepented means you have the understanding that you have sinned, but you will not let go of the sin. Therefore you must be removed from the ministry and submit to godly counseling. If that is not agreed on That person can not serve in ministry until they do. You are welcome to come to church and worship but you will not hold a position of ministry because of the people we are responsible for including you.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#33
Sep 4, 2013
30,675
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#33
Roughsoul1991 said:
If someone who was in a staff position or on a serving team, was caught in sin, was made to step down, repented, then how long until they should be trusted with being out back on staff or a serve team like band, greeters, cleaning, yard work, etc?
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The same amount of time as God waits to forgive their sins after they repent...
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#34
Sep 17, 2016
8,846
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#34
p_rehbein said:
The same amount of time as God waits to forgive their sins after they repent...
Click to expand...
So a pastor caught in adultery but repents should be immediately brought back as pastor? What about the damage done within the church or families involved?
 
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