And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

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Mar 4, 2020
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Give me a verse that say second death hurt temporarily
Revelation 2:11 says the hurt and the death are two different things. Death can hurt. Now what is death? It isn't living forever. No one who read the Scriptures, or listened to Jesus, or the apostles thought by death they meant not dying. This is not a parable. This is to be taken literally.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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I understand your belief is that EVERYONE is BORN immortal

and that

the 2nd death of the body and soul in the lake of fire ISN'T REALLY DEATH AT ALL

JUST the beginning of an eternal life in torment with their THINKING AND FEELING and KNOWLEDGE AKA LIFE now just an unescapable unchangeable unbearable existence

for having exercised their free will in the wrong way

BECAUSE that is what sounds JUST and RIGHT and HOLY to YOUR WAY OF THINKING.

I understand you ALSO disagree with what is written as to the former things being passed away
I don't disagree with the former things passing away at all. As per Isa 65:17 & Rev 21:1

Eternal life is not mere sentience. Eternal life is being eternally whole in spirit, soul & body.
The Bible doesn't have a soul-sleep or materialist view of mankind.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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I don't disagree with the former things passing away at all. As per Isa 65:17 & Rev 21:1

Eternal life is not mere sentience. Eternal life is being eternally whole in spirit, soul & body.
The Bible doesn't have a soul-sleep or materialist view of mankind.

So all you have to do is GET Rev 21:1 to COME BEFORE 20:11 for me to believe WHAT YOU SAY IS WHAT YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE BECAUSE as of RIGHT NOW, that is NOT TRUTH, they are just words put together to make it seem so.




Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Revelation 2:11 says the hurt and the death are two different things. Death can hurt. Now what is death? It isn't living forever. No one who read the Scriptures, or listened to Jesus, or the apostles thought by death they meant not dying. This is not a parable. This is to be taken literally.
friend, read the context
that church will experience persecution, and he that endure will never experience second death

this verse do not say death mean cease to exist
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
What do you think this verse is teaching? That unbelievers will not experience any more death, sorrow, crying, pain??

Do you really not know to whom this verse is referring?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,273
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So all you have to do is GET Rev 21:1 to COME BEFORE 20:11 for me to believe WHAT YOU SAY IS WHAT YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE BECAUSE as of RIGHT NOW, that is NOT TRUTH, they are just words put together to make it seem so.




Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
I am uncertain why you would think that heaven & earth passing away negates the eternal fate of God's enemies.
Heaven & earth are the natural world.


Rev 21:7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

When The Lord resurrects you, you will be a whole, immortal being. You won't be omniscient or omnipresent.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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I am uncertain why you would think that heaven & earth passing away negates the eternal fate of God's enemies.
Heaven & earth are the natural world.


Rev 21:7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

When The Lord resurrects you, you will be a whole, immortal being. You won't be omniscient or omnipresent.

That is the problem with translations as opposed to the original words given by God. Here it is AGAIN


FROM THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS

And He will wipe away


1813. exaleiphó ►
Strong's Concordance
exaleiphó: to wipe out, erase, obliterate
Original Word: ἐξαλείφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exaleiphó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-al-i'-fo)
Definition: to wipe out, erase, obliterate
Usage: I plaster, wash over; I wipe off, wipe out, obliterate.
HELPS Word-studies
1813 eksaleíphō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 218 /aleíphō, "smear") – properly, to rub (smear) out, i.e. completely remove (wipe away); obliterate; remove totally from a previous state with the outcome of being blotted out (erased).

[1813 (eksaleíphō) originally meant, "to plaster, rub smooth, or whitewash." Later it referred to "wiping out" in the sense of "to cancel" (rubbing out a writing or seal impression left on a wax tablet). Thus 1813 (eksaleíphō) was used for canceling obligations or entitlements (extended benefits or liabilities).]


every tear from the eyes of them

and death

NOT will be

any longer

1510. eimi ►
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).


nor mourning
nor crying
nor pain

NOT they will be any longer

1510. eimi ►
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).




BECAUSE THE FORMER

4413. prótos ►
Strong's Concordance
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.
HELPS Word-studies
4413 prṓtos (an adjective, derived from 4253 /pró, "before, forward") – first (foremost). 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one").



THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY

565. aperchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
aperchomai: to go away, go after
Original Word: ἀπέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aperchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-erkh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go away, go after
Usage: I come or go away from, depart, return, arrive, go after, follow.


2. tropically: of departing evils and sufferings, Mark 1:42; Luke 5:13 (ἡ λέπρα ἀπῆλθεν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ); Revelation 9:12; Revelation 11:14; of good things taken away from one, Revelation 18:14 (R G); of an evanescent state of things, Revelation 21:1 (Rec. παρῆλθε), 4; of a report going forth or spread εἰς, Matthew 4:24 (Treg. marginal reading ἐξῆλθεν).

(and to - And GOD is going to obliterate every tear from the eyes of them and death will no LONGER EXIST, NEITHER WILL there be mourning or crying or pain EXISTING any longer BECAUSE everything that was NO LONGER IS)




.

God will be bringing an end to, making them cease to exist, doing away with, obliterating 1 tears 2 death 3 mourning 4 crying 5 pain.



Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


The 2nd death is the LAKE OF FIRE and/or the Lake of fire is the 2nd DEATH



Let's do it the way of MATH which can easily be followed by all

THE LAKE OF FIRE IS THE 2ND DEATH.

DEATH IS TO BE OBLITERATED

THE LAKE OF FIRE IS TO BE OBLITERATED.

ETERNAL DEATH IN LAKE OF FIRE rendered to be an IMPOSSIBILITY


Smoke IS the very last part of something being burn up and once it has dissipated, there is nothing left.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
That is the problem with translations as opposed to the original words given by God. Here it is AGAIN


FROM THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS

And He will wipe away


1813. exaleiphó ►
Strong's Concordance
exaleiphó: to wipe out, erase, obliterate
Original Word: ἐξαλείφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exaleiphó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-al-i'-fo)
Definition: to wipe out, erase, obliterate
Usage: I plaster, wash over; I wipe off, wipe out, obliterate.
HELPS Word-studies
1813 eksaleíphō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 218 /aleíphō, "smear") – properly, to rub (smear) out, i.e. completely remove (wipe away); obliterate; remove totally from a previous state with the outcome of being blotted out (erased).

[1813 (eksaleíphō) originally meant, "to plaster, rub smooth, or whitewash." Later it referred to "wiping out" in the sense of "to cancel" (rubbing out a writing or seal impression left on a wax tablet). Thus 1813 (eksaleíphō) was used for canceling obligations or entitlements (extended benefits or liabilities).]


every tear from the eyes of them

and death

NOT will be

any longer

1510. eimi ►
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).


nor mourning
nor crying
nor pain

NOT they will be any longer

1510. eimi ►
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).




BECAUSE THE FORMER

4413. prótos ►
Strong's Concordance
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.
HELPS Word-studies
4413 prṓtos (an adjective, derived from 4253 /pró, "before, forward") – first (foremost). 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one").



THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY

565. aperchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
aperchomai: to go away, go after
Original Word: ἀπέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aperchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-erkh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go away, go after
Usage: I come or go away from, depart, return, arrive, go after, follow.


2. tropically: of departing evils and sufferings, Mark 1:42; Luke 5:13 (ἡ λέπρα ἀπῆλθεν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ); Revelation 9:12; Revelation 11:14; of good things taken away from one, Revelation 18:14 (R G); of an evanescent state of things, Revelation 21:1 (Rec. παρῆλθε), 4; of a report going forth or spread εἰς, Matthew 4:24 (Treg. marginal reading ἐξῆλθεν).

(and to - And GOD is going to obliterate every tear from the eyes of them and death will no LONGER EXIST, NEITHER WILL there be mourning or crying or pain EXISTING any longer BECAUSE everything that was NO LONGER IS)




.

God will be bringing an end to, making them cease to exist, doing away with, obliterating 1 tears 2 death 3 mourning 4 crying 5 pain.



Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


The 2nd death is the LAKE OF FIRE and/or the Lake of fire is the 2nd DEATH



Let's do it the way of MATH which can easily be followed by all

THE LAKE OF FIRE IS THE 2ND DEATH.

DEATH IS TO BE OBLITERATED

THE LAKE OF FIRE IS TO BE OBLITERATED.

ETERNAL DEATH IN LAKE OF FIRE rendered to be an IMPOSSIBILITY


Smoke IS the very last part of something being burn up and once it has dissipated, there is nothing left.
Matt 19

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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Seems we need a little education on what is written about the having died dead person experience, so we have a point of reference on which to begin to form a firm foundation in GODS TRUTH and not what we THINK about what dead is.

Here are the first couple bits of info

Ecclesiastes 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.


Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


\Psalm 88:3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.

Psalm 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

Psalm 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.

Psalm 88:6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.

Psalm 88:7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.




Ezekiel 26:19 For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

Ezekiel 26:20 When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

Ezekiel 26:21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.



Hebrew way
26:21 a terror I will make you and you [shall] [be] no [more]

369. ayin ►
Strong's Concordance
ayin: nothing, nought
Original Word: אַיִן
Part of Speech: substantive; particle of negation
Transliteration: ayin
Phonetic Spelling: (ah'-yin)
Definition: nothing, nought


and though you are sought for and never you will be found again never says the Lord GOD










It's a start.





Back to "the end" of an age as some see it, and the 'NOT any kind of an end at all age" as others do...


Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Greek way
And they marched up over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the city having been beloved BUT came down fire out of heaven and devoured them

2719. katesthió ►
Strong's Concordance
katesthió: to eat up
Original Word: κατεσθίω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katesthió
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-es-thee'-o)
Definition: to eat up
Usage: I eat up, eat till it is finished, devour, squander, annoy, injure.
HELPS Word-studies
2719 katesthíō (from 2596 /katá, "down," intensifying 2068 /esthíō, "eat") – properly, eat all the way down; (figuratively) utterly devour, leaving nothing; ferociously consume all the way down, i.e. with a rapacious, voracious appetite – leaving only ruination, without hope of recovery (or even remains).



Sounds like their JUDGMENT EXPERIENCE was SUPER QUICK and super thorough too. Any way, them is dead and gone...



And the devil the deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur where also the beast and the false prophet and they will be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages

165. aión ►
Strong's Concordance
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.
HELPS Word-studies
165 aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, "age-long") – properly, an age (era, "time-span"), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).
 
Dec 15, 2021
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Matt 19

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


If I follow what you are saying,

you are saying GOD gives us in writing, one message, backed up in more writings in many different places

BUT

it is WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN anywhere being what He really means BECAUSE with GOD all things are possible?


Nothing about that seems the slightest bit upside down to you? What is written isn't TRUTH but what isn't written is truth because with God all things are possible?


THAT'S JUST AS CONFUSING AS CAN BE and we know that GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
If I follow what you are saying,

you are saying GOD gives us in writing, one message, backed up in more writings in many different places

BUT

it is WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN anywhere being what He really means BECAUSE with GOD all things are possible?


Nothing about that seems the slightest bit upside down to you? What is written isn't TRUTH but what isn't written is truth because with God all things are possible?


THAT'S JUST AS CONFUSING AS CAN BE and we know that GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.
I am not confuse, you are
hell is eternal punishment, where goat in Matt 25 goes it is written
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,003
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I’m still not convinced about death being separation from God. Sin separates people from God, but it’s nuanced. God has different types of presences and manifests in ways that can be either seen or unseen.

God is omnipresent and knows the thoughts and intentions of all people from the chiefest sinner to the holiest saint. In that sense God is present. The difference is that God listens to one and doesn’t listen to the other, yet it’s still nuanced. God hears all prayers, but doesn’t regard or dignify them all.

Otherwise when an unrepentant sinner finally comes to Christ God would be incapable of hearing their prayer.

While the wages of sin is death that’s in reference to the judgement. If someone is judged by their sins then what they’ve earned is death. We aren’t judged until a later time post-resurrection.

Death is plainly death. Still not convinced?
So Adam died on the day he disobeyed but not really? And judgement is the second death. If you are right, Satan was correct in what he said to Eve. That makes God a liar:
Genesis 2:
16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,003
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What does this mean to you?
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.



What about this?
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death,



What about ?
neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.



Isaiah 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.


This?


Psalm 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.







Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Does this say they are PASSED AWAY or NOT?

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE for the Lake of Fire, which takes place BEFORE the New Heaven and the New earth MAKING IT part of the 'FORMER THINGS' to CONTINUE ON?

Are YOUR thoughts making void the words of God or are they not?

HOW ABOUT A 2ND WITNESS in WHAT IS WRITTEN? Not that we need one since NO ONE can produce anything written that says there is ETERNAL consciousness of punishment anyhow but


Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Isaiah 65:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

Isaiah 65:14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

Isaiah 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Isaiah 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;

because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE.

We can't have people crying in torment forever and ever AND NOT COMING INTO THE MIND OF GOD.
God wipes away the tears of His people. He is able to forget the sin of those who confess and repent. You think that He cannot forget the sinner? It's a choice that God can make. He is not human so we should not attribute human characteristics to Him.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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do you believe people on the left in this verse go to eternal fire or hell?

matt 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and

I am just going to Thank you for your time and end this conversation with you. I didn't realize you were arguing from a place of complete ignorance here. Now that I do know I would just be making you more accountable than you should be, and that would be on me. I have stood and I have warned. BUT

Let me give you a GREAT STARTING point in which to learn the order of what will happen when...

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Remember all the dead who rose both the just and the unjust when the Lords Day began? Well, here are the dead that rose that DAY FINALLY having their JUDGMENT. Some will receive their immortality having had their names found in the book of life, and some will be judged to the 2nd death which is the death of BOTH the body and soul.

AFTER THAT what we find written is

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;

Above and below DID NOT RESURRECT when the 'graves were opened' 2000 years ago and they didn't resurrect in the resurrection of the just and the unjust when Christ returned as LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS to bring an end to the tribulation, when the Lords Day began but remained dead awaiting judgment like Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.




Matt 25:41
Then will He say also to those on left,

Depart from Me, those being cursed,

into the fire eternal

having been prepared for the devil and the angels of him

2672. kataraomai ►
Strong's Concordance
kataraomai: to curse
Original Word: καταράομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataraomai
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ar-ah'-om-ahee)
Definition: to curse
Usage: I curse.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2672 kataráomai – to curse. See 2671 (katara).


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
curse.
Middle voice from katara; to execrate; by analogy, to doom -- curse.


Jude 1:2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.




he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


EVERLASTING CHAINS ONLY UNTO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY? How COULD THAT be possible IF everlasting never ends?


Hope this helps you soon
 
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God wipes away the tears of His people. He is able to forget the sin of those who confess and repent. You think that He cannot forget the sinner? It's a choice that God can make. He is not human so we should not attribute human characteristics to Him.
I know HE will forget because that is what is written and I believe what is written is what is meant not what is not written is what is meant as so many seem to do.

But we are MADE in His image. We are the sons of God. Sure, we can't even begin to compare or understand all of His ways but He didn't spend all this time and effort to write to us about things we can't understand.

If WE are to be the LIGHT in the world we best understand God and His desires and Laws and Works and HE tells us how to go about doing that...PRECEPT on precept, precept on precept, verse by verse verse by verse here a little there a little and THAT IS WHERE His rest is found

But they WOULDN'T do it back then, just like they don't do it now because they wanted to worship GOD their way, just like Cain did. Isn't that why GOD DIDN'T RESPECT his offering? because he did it his way, on his terms and NOT GODS WAY? HOW DARE HIS BROTHER FOLLOW GOD in GODS WAY. Not much different than it is today, is it? What is written or what is meant? Learning the words of God Precept on Precept or Only the New Test applies...same old same old....
 
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So Adam died on the day he disobeyed but not really? And judgement is the second death. If you are right, Satan was correct in what he said to Eve. That makes God a liar:
Genesis 2:
16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”
And less than a thousand years later, he was dead.

Isn't a thousand years as a day to the Lord?
 
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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

2068. esthió ►
Strong's Concordance
esthió: to eat
Original Word: ἐσθίω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: esthió
Phonetic Spelling: (es-thee'-o)
Definition: to eat
Usage: I eat, partake of food; met: I devour, consume (e.g. as rust does)

Metaphorically, to devour, consume: τινα, Hebrews 10:27; τί, Revelation 17:16; of rust, James 5:3. (Compare: κατεσθίω, συνεσθίω.)





2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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And less than a thousand years later, he was dead.

Isn't a thousand years as a day to the Lord?
Sure, but not to Adam. You see immediate consequences of his disobedience. Blaming others, hiding from God, attempting to cover up - the marks of a sinner. Death is not the end of existence. It is separation from God. The wicked will be raised to face judgement just as the righteous. There is the second death, making the first death eternal and irreversible.

God's mercy and grace have been extended to man for thousands of years. God sent Jesus to die in our place. If there were no consequences for sinners, then the death of Jesus is pointless. So is the sacrifice of those who give up everything for His sake and even die for Christ.
 

Gideon300

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Revelation 2:11 says the hurt and the death are two different things. Death can hurt. Now what is death? It isn't living forever. No one who read the Scriptures, or listened to Jesus, or the apostles thought by death they meant not dying. This is not a parable. This is to be taken literally.
So what is death? You won't accept the obvious from God's word. So how do you define it?
 
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So what is death? You won't accept the obvious from God's word. So how do you define it?
That’s not what is happening though. I do accept what the Bible says, but you’re misrepresenting me in your pretense to the question. Why should I dignify that with an answer? Is this how you talk to people in real life?