saved not by faith in the first place

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H

Hearer

Guest
#1
#1
Faith follows regeneration. First we have to be born again; then we receive faith as a gift. Otherwise we believe in works and our own flesh.
We are not regenerayed after developing faith but before.
Regeneration is the sovereign work pf God the Holy Spirit. We need only search for God's face, seeking and knocking and wanting a better life. Then we will receive the power to change and to have faith.
Abraham had God come to him to send him to a new country. Jacob saw Godon the staiway and was regenerated. The prophets predicted under the Spirit that we would all be given hearts of flesh having our stony hearts removed. Saul was regenerated and became Paul. Peter was faithless denying the Lord but was made the first apostle through regeneration. All received the gifts of God. The church had scattered at the crucifiixion but were regenerate at Pentecost receiving power from on high and became an unstoppable force filled with faith.

The best we can do is:

seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened, ask and ye shall receive; before your faith is full and flowing enough to make you fruitful. First you have to born again, regenerated.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#2
#2
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#3
#3
Joshua175 said:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
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amen, by grace as a gift we saved for faith and then by faith after receiving the grace to have faith.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
#4
If one does not have faith. They are still dead in their sin. Thus they have not been regenerated. The gift of eternal LIFE (born again) can only be recieved by faith in the work of Christ. No faith, no gift. no gift. no life.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#5
#5
eternally-gratefull said:
If one does not have faith. They are still dead in their sin. Thus they have not been regenerated. The gift of eternal LIFE (born again) can only be recieved by faith in the work of Christ. No faith, no gift. no gift. no life.
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in my experience and by the gift of grace I was then given faith faith to work on my salvation and to try and be perfect. But the faith came as a gift of grace. Had God not come to me and knocked on the door of my heart I would not have had faith.

If you believe that you had the faith first before you were reborn then you have worked the work of the holy spirit. Then he is not the creator who hovers over the desolate waste.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#6
#6
Amn eternally-gratefull. Salvation is by grace Through faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#7
#7
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#8
#8
Hearer said:
Faith follows regeneration. First we have to be born again; then we receive faith as a gift. Otherwise we believe in works and our own flesh.
We are not regenerayed after developing faith but before.
Regeneration is the sovereign work pf God the Holy Spirit. We need only search for God's face, seeking and knocking and wanting a better life. Then we will receive the power to change and to have faith.
Abraham had God come to him to send him to a new country. Jacob saw Godon the staiway and was regenerated. The prophets predicted under the Spirit that we would all be given hearts of flesh having our stony hearts removed. Saul was regenerated and became Paul. Peter was faithless denying the Lord but was made the first apostle through regeneration. All received the gifts of God. The church had scattered at the crucifiixion but were regenerate at Pentecost receiving power from on high and became an unstoppable force filled with faith.

The best we can do is:

seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened, ask and ye shall receive; before your faith is full and flowing enough to make you fruitful. First you have to born again, regenerated.
Click to expand...
AMEN!! AMEN!! May Jesus bless you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
Hearer said:
in my experience and by the gift of grace I was then given faith faith to work on my salvation and to try and be perfect. But the faith came as a gift of grace. Had God not come to me and knocked on the door of my heart I would not have had faith.

If you believe that you had the faith first before you were reborn then you have worked the work of the holy spirit. Then he is not the creator who hovers over the desolate waste.
Click to expand...
First off. You do not have to work on your salvation. Salvation is a gift of God. If you have to work on it, It is not a gift.

second, The very fact you have the ABILITY to have faith is grace itself. You do not earn the right to even talk to God, let alone recieve a gift from him. (None of us do, not just you) If it were not for Gods grace, Jesus never would have came in our behalf and died for us. and we would never have anything to place our trust in.

third. Yes God comes to our doors and knocks. But what does he want you to do? Let him in. Thats faith. If you do not have faith. you will not let him in.

finally. The HS convicted me of sin. Convinced me I was rightly judged. And let me know that the father has sent the son to do what I could never do (save myself) and all I need to do is trust him when he says that whoever has faith in Christ, and believes he did what he came to do, and that through this you can have eternal life. You will be saved.

I believed.

You have it backwards my friend. I am sorry
 
Avinu

Avinu

Banned
#10
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
0
#10
Hearer, I understand what you're saying. But we have to have some level of Faith for us to be born again. We have to believe somewhat for us to be willing to ask Yeshua into our hearts. Wouldn't you say that's our first experience with faith? My 2 cents worth. Shalom
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
#11
Joshua175 said:
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
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YES!!

You heard (the work of the HS)

You believed/trusted (faith) (it is the work of God, because you did nothing but trust in his words, his work, and his promises, it would only be your work if you trusted in your work, and your good deeds because your trusting in self)

You were sealed with the holy spirit of promise.

without faith. there is no salvation!
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#12
#12
Avinu said:
Hearer, I understand what you're saying. But we have to have some level of Faith for us to be born again. We have to believe somewhat for us to be willing to ask Yeshua into our hearts. Wouldn't you say that's our first experience with faith? My 2 cents worth. Shalom
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Yes Amen!! It starts as a seed, and then it grows!! Amen.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#13
#13
I completely agree with you .eternally-gratefull Without faith we cannot please God. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
 
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H

Hearer

Guest
#14
#14
Joshua175 said:
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
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if you are unregenerate how do you trust? it is by grace that we are saved. sure we are sealed after we have faith but that seal is a mark not a regeneration. regeneration comes by baptism an invisible hovering over you by the Holy Spirit. He is thus creator and the benfactor of our salvation whereupon we have faith having heared.

Thus to be faithful you have to be a hearer and receiver of the truth by grace. Then sealed by the spirit by his sign. LIke the seal of the meal of salt and the exchanging of blood in ancient times.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#15
#15
Avinu said:
Hearer, I understand what you're saying. But we have to have some level of Faith for us to be born again. We have to believe somewhat for us to be willing to ask Yeshua into our hearts. Wouldn't you say that's our first experience with faith? My 2 cents worth. Shalom
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Faith without works is dead. Faith needs action and it's that action that makes it faith. The action of accepting Yeshua into our hearts.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#16
#16
Joshua175 said:
I completely agree with you .eternally-gratefull Without faith we cannot please God. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
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whosoever believes believes because they are chosen and given ears to hear and hearts to receive.
 
J

Joshua175

Guest
#17
#17
Hearer said:
whosoever believes believes because they are chosen and given ears to hear and hearts to receive.
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I think you have that backwards too. We are chosen because we believe. God foreknew that we would choose him, but the fact that we accepted him in is the reason we were saved, an act of faith. Like I said, faith without works is dead.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#18
#18
Avinu said:
Hearer, I understand what you're saying. But we have to have some level of Faith for us to be born again. We have to believe somewhat for us to be willing to ask Yeshua into our hearts. Wouldn't you say that's our first experience with faith? My 2 cents worth. Shalom
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we have to differntiate between regenaration and sanctification. Sanctification follows faith. But to have faith we have to first be given ears to hear and hearts to receive and accept.
 
R

Ramon

Guest
#19
#19
Joshua175 said:
I think you have that backwards too. We are chosen because we believe. God foreknew that we would choose him, but the fact that we accepted him in is the reason we were saved, an act of faith. Like I said, faith without works is dead.
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Joshua. Hearer is speaking from another level. Both of you are right in a way. But his understanding is somewhere a bit higher.

This difference in opinion is not wrong. But one sees something more than the other, and it should be for edification.

The understanding is that all things are in the hands of God, whether one repents or one is hardened further. It is like how it was described that some vessels are fitted to destruction, yet others to the glory of God (some for mercy). This is a harder thing to grasp concerning God, because it brings up questions that puzzle us. But Paul spoke about it. I will try and find the passages where he talked about it.

May Jesus bless you.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#20
#20
we can be the greatest teachers in christendom who have heard and believe in God and so think we have faith, but in the end if we are not given rebirth (given not earned rebirth) then we will not have real faith and our prior works will have been dead.
 
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