And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[FreeGrace2]

I’ll believe what the Bible says which is what I’ve been doing all along.

Not even close. You have already admitted that your sentiments are maudlin. You are driven by your emotions, not your intellect.

You feel sorry for unbelievers being aware of punishment forever. But the Bible says so clearly, so you just twist the verses because you don't want to accept the truth.

You or kleronomos even claimed such an idea was CRUEL. That's why you are maudlin. Overly emotional about something you just can't stomach. Well, get over it.

But don't worry. In eternity, God will wipe away every tear. So after you learn the truth, go cry your eyes out. And then God will pass you a tissue that you can dab on your crying eyes. You will get over it.

 

[Runningman]

But don't worry. In eternity, God will wipe away every tear. So after you learn the truth, go cry your eyes out. And then God will pass you a tissue that you can dab on your crying eyes. You will get over it.

You just refuted yourself. No pain or tears in the new heavens and earth so no eternal torment or weeping and wailing in the LOF. Sorry eternal tormentor, but you won’t have your cake and eat it too. As much as you want people to suffer eternally you’ll never get it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Isaiah 66 says that those who are put to death will be an abhorrence to the righteous in the new heaven and new earth.

24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

So you actually believe that believers on the NE will "go out and look on the dead bodies of rebels"??

How will that be possible, SINCE when the Bible gets to the NE in Rev 21, all unbelievers will have ALREADY been cast into the LOF.

So explain how believers on the NE will be able to SEE any "dead bodies". And explain WHY there will be dead bodies after the GWT judgment. You have been harping on unbelievers being completely destroyed; body and soul. So explain how there can even be "dead bodies" to "look on".

That means the resurrection that “some” will awaken to is a resurrection that causes those the righteous to feel ashamed and contempt for their burning carcasses, at least initially.

No, v.24 is clear; believers will "go out and LOOK ON the DEAD BODIES of rebels". You HAVE TO explain all that.

Those bodies will be reduced to nothing both ashes. In the new heavens and earth only righteousness dwells.

You are arguing AGAINST Isa 66:24.

In Revelation 21 God said there will be no more pain or crying. Do you believe God?

I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The veres in Lamentations SAID "the heart".

Well then, just where are feelings experienced? In your right toe? This is beyond ridiculous.

The 2 verses in Lamentations specifically SAY where suffering is experienced: "within" and "in the heart".

That shouldn't be difficult to understand.

The fact that you actually challenge the idea that feelings from from the soul is just amazing. And I don't expect any answer from you anyway. You just ignore the questions that reveal your error.

You’re making this difficult by adding words like “soul” into Bible verses where it isn’t. Don’t do that anymore and we’ll be 100% clear.

Dodge, dodge, dodge. That is all you do. Answer my question please.

Where are you feelings experienced? Seems as though you don't even understand what the soul is.

 

[Runningman]

24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

So you actually believe that believers on the NE will "go out and look on the dead bodies of rebels"??

How will that be possible, SINCE when the Bible gets to the NE in Rev 21, all unbelievers will have ALREADY been cast into the LOF.

So explain how believers on the NE will be able to SEE any "dead bodies". And explain WHY there will be dead bodies after the GWT judgment. You have been harping on unbelievers being completely destroyed; body and soul. So explain how there can even be "dead bodies" to "look on".


No, v.24 is clear; believers will "go out and LOOK ON the DEAD BODIES of rebels". You HAVE TO explain all that.


You are arguing AGAINST Isa 66:24.


I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

I don’t need to explain anything since Isaiah 66 says exactly that. How were the beast and false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire? You need to explain why you don’t agree with the Bible, I don’t need to explain why I agree with the Bible. You’re wrong about this so you won’t be setting the terms for how this is discussed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
But don't worry. In eternity, God will wipe away every tear. So after you learn the truth, go cry your eyes out. And then God will pass you a tissue that you can dab on your crying eyes. You will get over it.

You just refuted yourself. No pain or tears in the new heavens and earth so no eternal torment or weeping and wailing in the LOF.

Wow, now you are beyond ridiculous. The "no pain or tears in the NE" doesn't apply to the LOF, which isn't even close to the NE.

Why do you think it is?

There CAN BE and WILL BE great suffering (more or less tolerable) in the LOF, all the while no pain or tears on the NE.

Sorry eternal tormentor, but you won’t have your cake and eat it too. As much as you want people to suffer eternally you’ll never get it.

All I want is to understand God's Word. And I believe what I understand.

Why you insinuate that I have an agenda is hogwash. You have already revealed YOUR agenda by claiming ECT is CRUEL.

So you have criticized God's plan for unbelievers. You are the one with the agenda, not me.

I accept what I read. You TWIST what you read. Obviously.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don’t need to explain anything since Isaiah 66 says exactly that. How were the beast and false prophet captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire?

Who do you think?

Rev 19-
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The "rider on the horse" throws the beast and FP into the LOF. AKA the Lord Jesus Christ.

You need to explain why you don’t agree with the Bible,

This is delirious. Where do you think I don't agree with the Bible? Don't be cheap and just throw out charges/claims without any evidence. So show me your evidence.

I don’t need to explain why I agree with the Bible.

I don't agree with you.

You’re wrong about this so you won’t be setting the terms for how this is discussed.

Who gave you the authority to "set the terms". What arrogant nonsense.

You show your evidence and I show mine. That's how it works. Or you are free to exit the discussion, since you have no ammo.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
The veres in Lamentations SAID "the heart".

Well then, just where are feelings experienced? In your right toe? This is beyond ridiculous.

The 2 verses in Lamentations specifically SAY where suffering is experienced: "within" and "in the heart".

That shouldn't be difficult to understand.

The fact that you actually challenge the idea that feelings from from the soul is just amazing. And I don't expect any answer from you anyway. You just ignore the questions that reveal your error.

Dodge, dodge, dodge. That is all you do. Answer my question please.

Where are you feelings experienced? Seems as though you don't even understand what the soul is.

Lamentations says it’s the heart. I just found many verses about feelings in the heart. I’m not doing your homework for you. Go look it up on your own time.

 

[Runningman]

Who do you think?

Rev 19-
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The "rider on the horse" throws the beast and FP into the LOF. AKA the Lord Jesus Christ.


This is delirious. Where do you think I don't agree with the Bible? Don't be cheap and just throw out charges/claims without any evidence. So show me your evidence.


I don't agree with you.


Who gave you the authority to "set the terms". What arrogant nonsense.

You show your evidence and I show mine. That's how it works. Or you are free to exit the discussion, since you have no ammo.

I’ll stay in this discussion for years to come. I’m not going anywhere until the truth has the last word. I have virtually unlimited patience to preach the rightly divided word of God.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
But don't worry. In eternity, God will wipe away every tear. So after you learn the truth, go cry your eyes out. And then God will pass you a tissue that you can dab on your crying eyes. You will get over it.

Wow, now you are beyond ridiculous. The "no pain or tears in the NE" doesn't apply to the LOF, which isn't even close to the NE.

Why do you think it is?

There CAN BE and WILL BE great suffering (more or less tolerable) in the LOF, all the while no pain or tears on the NE.



All I want is to understand God's Word. And I believe what I understand.

Why you insinuate that I have an agenda is hogwash. You have already revealed YOUR agenda by claiming ECT is CRUEL.

So you have criticized God's plan for unbelievers. You are the one with the agenda, not me.

I accept what I read. You TWIST what you read. Obviously.

God’s plan for unbelievers is to destroy them. Believe in Christ and be saved or don’t and perish. John 3:16 is one of the most well-known Bible verses even in the secular world. Unbelievers know they’ll perish because the Bible says that. Perish means to be destroyed utterly. The word of God is on my side so I am 100% confident about this.

 

[Runningman]

I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

Revelation 21:4
4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Matthew 13:42
42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The Bible says there will not be any pain or crying. That means it isn’t eternal. It’s very clear.

 

[Runningman]

All I want is to understand God's Word. And I believe what I understand.

You don’t understand God’s word. You understand FreeGrace2’s words. The Bible will never align with what you want. Seriously, what denomination produced you? I would love to know what church denomination people like you go to. Care to enlighten me?

 

[Runningman]

I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

So you believe something of the unbeliever isn’t destroyed or completely put to death in hell? Then there consciousness is still alive when Jesus promised only the righteous live forever.

Gonna need some verses for your doctrine. Wait, there aren’t any.

 

[Runningman]

Wow, now you are beyond ridiculous. The "no pain or tears in the NE" doesn't apply to the LOF, which isn't even close to the NE.

This should be interesting. Where is the lake of fire according to Isaiah 66 and Revelation 21?

Revelation 21:1,8
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

Isaiah 66:22-24
22“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure.
23From one New Moon to another
and from one Sabbath to another,
all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.
24“As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die,
their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”

 

[Mem]

"Annihilation has no terrors for me, because I have already tried it before I was born—a hundred million years—
and I have suffered more in an hour, in this life, than I remember to have suffered in the whole hundred million
years put together." ~Mark Twain

This only sounds like a bitter soul with no hope for eternal life. Sad really, considering it's like that he had an eternity of suffering preached at him his entire life by multitudes of misguided people, and he was smart enough, and I would go as far to say even given an inherent, although suppressed and hidden, knowledge not to believe it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lamentations says it’s the heart. I just found many verses about feelings in the heart. I’m not doing your homework for you. Go look it up on your own time.

Why? Of course feelings are from the heart. You're the one who doubted it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God’s plan for unbelievers is to destroy them.

I love repeating truth. When the Bible speaks of destroy and perish, it already refers to the body. And we know that the bodies of unbelievers will be resurrected and then thrown into the LOF, where the body WILL BE destroyed.

Believe in Christ and be saved or don’t and perish. John 3:16 is one of the most well-known Bible verses even in the secular world. Unbelievers know they’ll perish because the Bible says that. Perish means to be destroyed utterly.

Bodies only.

If the soul ceases to exist, there is NO punishment to experience.

The word of God is on my side so I am 100% confident about this.

Your confidence is in sand. Very wet sand.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

Revelation 21:4
4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Matthew 13:42
42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The Bible says there will not be any pain or crying. That means it isn’t eternal. It’s very clear.

OK, now explain why you think Rev 21:4 applies to unbelievers anyway.

If your view were correct, there wouldn't be any unbelievers to cry by the time we get to Rev 21:4. So you haven't been doing your own homework.

And also, explain v.42. Your claim is that when thrown into the LOF they will cease to exist, as the fire burns them up.

So how can there be "weeping and gnashing of teeth". These are ongoing activities.

If you were thrown into a very hot fire, just how long to you think you'd be crying?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
All I want is to understand God's Word. And I believe what I understand.

You don’t understand God’s word.

You're judgmental opinion is of no concern to me.

You understand FreeGrace2’s words.

I've quoted Scripture directly. Get over yourself.

The Bible will never align with what you want.

You just keep missing the point. This isn't what I want but what you want. You have admitted that you think it CRUEL that unbelievers would experience eternal suffering. Well, they will. Get over it.

Seriously, what denomination produced you?

I have been non denominational for decades. What does that matter?

I would love to know what church denomination people like you go to. Care to enlighten me?

Just did. Read my post.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I sure do. All unbelievers, along with all fallen angels, will experience an eternal punishment. And that doesn't mean they won't exist.

So you believe something of the unbeliever isn’t destroyed or completely put to death in hell?

No, you just keep getting everything WRONG. The LOF isn't "hell". Hades is hell, and is the holding tank for unbelievers before they appear at the GWT judgment. So get at least some of your facts straight.

Second, I ABSOLUTELY DO believe that the souls, the "inner person" of unbelievers will experience an eternal shame and punishment. They will experience it. That's what eternal means.

Then there consciousness is still alive when Jesus promised only the righteous live forever.

You are free to stupidly call existence of punishment "living forever". That's your choice. I don't care. But it's quite laughable.

Gonna need some verses for your doctrine. Wait, there aren’t any.

You've seen them. And twisted them.