And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
- Thread starter kleronomos
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
FreeGrace2 said:
Well, thanks for unwittingly showing just how confused you are.
First, you claim that "God doesn't eternally torment all of the unsaved". then you claim that "God does punish all of the unsaved with eternal torment".
And since you believe that God destroys the souls of unbelievers, how does a non-entity feel 'torment'. That's what you need to explain.
In what post did you "clear up" my supposed "mistake"?
I guess his statement could be called "deceptive". What is clear is that it is contradictory.
Well, thanks for unwittingly showing just how confused you are.
First, you claim that "God doesn't eternally torment all of the unsaved". then you claim that "God does punish all of the unsaved with eternal torment".
And since you believe that God destroys the souls of unbelievers, how does a non-entity feel 'torment'. That's what you need to explain.
In what post did you "clear up" my supposed "mistake"?
I guess his statement could be called "deceptive". What is clear is that it is contradictory.
FreeGrace2 said:
Well, thanks for unwittingly showing just how confused you are.
First, you claim that "God doesn't eternally torment all of the unsaved". then you claim that "God does punish all of the unsaved with eternal torment".
There was no doubt about the contradictory statement made that I pointed out. So I don't need any benefit.
The Bible SAYS they do. Which you just close your eyes to. "eternal punishment", "eternal torment". I don't even know what you mean by "explain how non-entities feeling eternal torment" means. Actually, that's your position that you haven't explained yet.
You believe that those who cease to exist can be punished. But you can't explain it. You just make claims. Empty ones.
I don't believe that non-entities can be punished. They aren't even there.
That's equivalent to administering 40 lashes to a criminal but first allowing him to be in another room while you are administering the punishment. They aren't even there. So they AREN'T being punished.
Even children can understand this. So why can't you? Other than your bias of maudlin sentimentality.
Physical death of the resurrected mortal body.
You have no verse that says this. In fact, again, hell ain't the LOF. So you remain confused.
Well, thanks for unwittingly showing just how confused you are.
First, you claim that "God doesn't eternally torment all of the unsaved". then you claim that "God does punish all of the unsaved with eternal torment".
There was no doubt about the contradictory statement made that I pointed out. So I don't need any benefit.
The Bible SAYS they do. Which you just close your eyes to. "eternal punishment", "eternal torment". I don't even know what you mean by "explain how non-entities feeling eternal torment" means. Actually, that's your position that you haven't explained yet.
You believe that those who cease to exist can be punished. But you can't explain it. You just make claims. Empty ones.
I don't believe that non-entities can be punished. They aren't even there.
That's equivalent to administering 40 lashes to a criminal but first allowing him to be in another room while you are administering the punishment. They aren't even there. So they AREN'T being punished.
Even children can understand this. So why can't you? Other than your bias of maudlin sentimentality.
Physical death of the resurrected mortal body.
You have no verse that says this. In fact, again, hell ain't the LOF. So you remain confused.
Why do you keep repeating this inaccurate statement? hell isn't the LOF. All bevlievers, including Hades (hell) will be thrown into the LOF. Why don't you know that? And there is no verse that God WILL destroy any soul. Of course He can. He is sovereign and omnipotent. But the Bible does NOT say that He will.
Nope. The alternative to eternal life, which is being with God, is NOT having eternal life and being apart from God.
What a condescending snipe. But you are good at that.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
There it is in black and while. Why do you insist on the FALSE notion that "can" means "will"?
God can destroy souls in Hades or the LOF. So what? Show me any verse that says He will. But you don't have even 1.
Jesus was referring to the resurrected mortal bodies of unbelievers, who will be cast into the LOF.
You can't refute this. And you know it.
Nope. The alternative to eternal life, which is being with God, is NOT having eternal life and being apart from God.
What a condescending snipe. But you are good at that.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
There it is in black and while. Why do you insist on the FALSE notion that "can" means "will"?
God can destroy souls in Hades or the LOF. So what? Show me any verse that says He will. But you don't have even 1.
Jesus was referring to the resurrected mortal bodies of unbelievers, who will be cast into the LOF.
You can't refute this. And you know it.
You not accepting something as being refuted and it being refuted aren’t the same thing. You don’t have the last say on this, the Bible does. If you just want to say “I believe this for X reasons” then be my guest, but when you start misrepresenting the Bible you’ll have disagreements, but you don’t have the temperament for disagreements.
Obviously you’re just clinging onto the the hope that the unsaved will be in torment forever. That’s your faith.
It’s all already been refuted. Eternal conscious torment for all of the unsaved is a false doctrine.
Obviously you’re just clinging onto the the hope that the unsaved will be in torment forever. That’s your faith.
It’s all already been refuted. Eternal conscious torment for all of the unsaved is a false doctrine.
What I accept is that you have no verses that clearly indicate that God gives immortality to souls at resurrection. Or any time before that.
That is exactly right! Truth has the last say, but that doesn't stop deceived or ignorant people from continuing their claims, all without verses that support their claims.
That's what I do, and have been doing.
Your mal-judgments of my intentions or actions is reprehensible. You have no right/authority to judge me. You can't even refute my statements with Scripture. All you do is keep insisting that perish includes the soul, and you have no verse that says souls will perish.
See? You just keep up with these outlandish judgments of what my bias is. I've already said several times I don't care whether God destroys souls or torments them forever. That is totally His call alone.
But you have admitted YOUR OWN bias by claiming that eternal torment is CRUEL. So you are judging God's actions by your own maudlin sentimentality.
You are the one with a huge bias. I don't have any. I will always gladly accept what the Bible says. And the Bible doesn't say that God will destroy souls. Yes, it says He is able to. And you wrongy presume that means He will. Without evidence for it.
This is just a very childish and ridiculous statement. All you do is judge without base. I've made my faith clear. And I've supported my views on eternity FROM Scripture. You have to include your bias and presumption that "can" means "will", when it doesn't.
So you presume. So what?
It has been shown over and over, but your huge bias won't allow you to see it. Because you think it CRUEL for God to torment anyone forever.
But we KNOW from Scripture that 2 human beings will be conscious and feeling torment in the LOF for 1,000 years BEFORE Satan is cast into the LOF. And you just dismiss that as some kind of anomaly or something.
When in fact, it's what happens to those who are cast into the LOF. But you PRESUME that ONLY the first 2 humans will be tormented forever. And you have no basis for that.
And Rev 20:10 is immediately followed by the GWT judgment (v.11-15) where ALL the rest of the unbelievers get the same treatment.
Your views are baseless.
That is exactly right! Truth has the last say, but that doesn't stop deceived or ignorant people from continuing their claims, all without verses that support their claims.
That's what I do, and have been doing.
Your mal-judgments of my intentions or actions is reprehensible. You have no right/authority to judge me. You can't even refute my statements with Scripture. All you do is keep insisting that perish includes the soul, and you have no verse that says souls will perish.
See? You just keep up with these outlandish judgments of what my bias is. I've already said several times I don't care whether God destroys souls or torments them forever. That is totally His call alone.
But you have admitted YOUR OWN bias by claiming that eternal torment is CRUEL. So you are judging God's actions by your own maudlin sentimentality.
You are the one with a huge bias. I don't have any. I will always gladly accept what the Bible says. And the Bible doesn't say that God will destroy souls. Yes, it says He is able to. And you wrongy presume that means He will. Without evidence for it.
This is just a very childish and ridiculous statement. All you do is judge without base. I've made my faith clear. And I've supported my views on eternity FROM Scripture. You have to include your bias and presumption that "can" means "will", when it doesn't.
So you presume. So what?
It has been shown over and over, but your huge bias won't allow you to see it. Because you think it CRUEL for God to torment anyone forever.
But we KNOW from Scripture that 2 human beings will be conscious and feeling torment in the LOF for 1,000 years BEFORE Satan is cast into the LOF. And you just dismiss that as some kind of anomaly or something.
When in fact, it's what happens to those who are cast into the LOF. But you PRESUME that ONLY the first 2 humans will be tormented forever. And you have no basis for that.
And Rev 20:10 is immediately followed by the GWT judgment (v.11-15) where ALL the rest of the unbelievers get the same treatment.
Your views are baseless.
Thanks for proving my point again.
However, you’re wrong.
Only the those who believe in God’s Son live forever. All others perish, meaning they won’t live forever in hell in any sense.
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life
Perish means utterly destroy. That’s what happens when God destroys body and soul in hell.
Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
James 4:12
12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
The Bible stands in opposition to you. There is not eternal torment option for all of the unsaved.
Body destroyed ✅
Soul destroyed ✅
Spiritually dead ✅
The body, soul, and spirit are what make up what a person. Body, soul, spirit = human being. Those who are saved will live forever. It’s absurd to say those who live forever are soulless.
You’re the first person I’ve heard say that those who live forever don’t have a soul, but since you’ve come to this thread you’ve been unable to defend your faith in eternal torment with scripture. Your refuge is just to make things up because you’re threatened. That explains all of the lashing out you do, name calling, labeling, false charges, etc.
However, you’re wrong.
Only the those who believe in God’s Son live forever. All others perish, meaning they won’t live forever in hell in any sense.
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life
Perish means utterly destroy. That’s what happens when God destroys body and soul in hell.
Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
James 4:12
12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
The Bible stands in opposition to you. There is not eternal torment option for all of the unsaved.
Body destroyed ✅
Soul destroyed ✅
Spiritually dead ✅
The body, soul, and spirit are what make up what a person. Body, soul, spirit = human being. Those who are saved will live forever. It’s absurd to say those who live forever are soulless.
You’re the first person I’ve heard say that those who live forever don’t have a soul, but since you’ve come to this thread you’ve been unable to defend your faith in eternal torment with scripture. Your refuge is just to make things up because you’re threatened. That explains all of the lashing out you do, name calling, labeling, false charges, etc.
The only point I have agreed with from you is your comment about truth having the last word. It sure does! And refutes your maudlin sentiments.
Then PROVE it.
1. verse that shows God giving immortality to the soul of the believer during their life.
2. verse that SAYS God WILL destroy souls.
3. verse that SAYS that only the beast and FP will be tormented forever, and not the rest of the unbelievers.
That's how you your claims. Nothing less.
I think you are playing word games. Those who believe POSSESS eternal life. Not just "life". So clean up your claims before you post them. Believers will live forever because they possess eternal life.
But since both the beast and FP will have existed in conscious torment for 1,000 years BEFORE Satan and his cohort gets thrown in with them, you have no basis for claiming that the rest of the unbelievers won't get the same treatment.
STOP saying "hell". The LOF isn't hell. Get your facts STRAIGHT!
And their mortal physical resurrected bodies will DO JUST THAT.
Not hell. Not ever hell. And you have NO verse that says body and soul will be destroyed.
The word "can" NEVER EVER means "will". Please get that through your skull.
Yep. Destroy the resurrected AND mortal body.
Not even close. You don't have any verses that say all that you claim. And you seem to intentionally abuse the word "perish" to include the soul. YES, God CAN destroy souls. But give me even ONE verse that says He WILL. That's where you go completely off the rails.
Again, the ONLY component of resurrection is the body. There is NO MENTION of souls or spirits. So you continue to go down rabbit holes.
They have eternal life in their bodies, glorified bodies. And yes, their souls are immortal. Prove otherwise with clear verses.
I would never say such a stupid thing. Of course unbelievers in the LOF are being tormented of their soul.
You have a reading problem. I've NEVER said such a stupid thing.
Once again, it is your own huge BIAS of maudlin sentimentality that has blinded your eyes from the truth.
Pure nonsense.
You don't have any verses that show the souls of believers being given immortality.
You don't have any verses showing that only 2 humans will be tormented forever in the LOF.
You don't have any verses saying that God WILL, not "can", destroy souls.
You don't have anything to support your maudlin sentiments about the unbelievers.
Yeah, real dramatic. Nonsense again.
I've calmly given verses that prove my position and refute yours.
But you just don't want to accept the truth because you believe that eternal torment is CRUEL.
Yet, you acknowledge that God WILL torment 2 humans forever. So your views are totally conflicted anyway.
Then PROVE it.
1. verse that shows God giving immortality to the soul of the believer during their life.
2. verse that SAYS God WILL destroy souls.
3. verse that SAYS that only the beast and FP will be tormented forever, and not the rest of the unbelievers.
That's how you your claims. Nothing less.
I think you are playing word games. Those who believe POSSESS eternal life. Not just "life". So clean up your claims before you post them. Believers will live forever because they possess eternal life.
But since both the beast and FP will have existed in conscious torment for 1,000 years BEFORE Satan and his cohort gets thrown in with them, you have no basis for claiming that the rest of the unbelievers won't get the same treatment.
STOP saying "hell". The LOF isn't hell. Get your facts STRAIGHT!
And their mortal physical resurrected bodies will DO JUST THAT.
Not hell. Not ever hell. And you have NO verse that says body and soul will be destroyed.
The word "can" NEVER EVER means "will". Please get that through your skull.
Yep. Destroy the resurrected AND mortal body.
Not even close. You don't have any verses that say all that you claim. And you seem to intentionally abuse the word "perish" to include the soul. YES, God CAN destroy souls. But give me even ONE verse that says He WILL. That's where you go completely off the rails.
Again, the ONLY component of resurrection is the body. There is NO MENTION of souls or spirits. So you continue to go down rabbit holes.
They have eternal life in their bodies, glorified bodies. And yes, their souls are immortal. Prove otherwise with clear verses.
I would never say such a stupid thing. Of course unbelievers in the LOF are being tormented of their soul.
You have a reading problem. I've NEVER said such a stupid thing.
Once again, it is your own huge BIAS of maudlin sentimentality that has blinded your eyes from the truth.
Pure nonsense.
You don't have any verses that show the souls of believers being given immortality.
You don't have any verses showing that only 2 humans will be tormented forever in the LOF.
You don't have any verses saying that God WILL, not "can", destroy souls.
You don't have anything to support your maudlin sentiments about the unbelievers.
Yeah, real dramatic. Nonsense again.
I've calmly given verses that prove my position and refute yours.
But you just don't want to accept the truth because you believe that eternal torment is CRUEL.
Yet, you acknowledge that God WILL torment 2 humans forever. So your views are totally conflicted anyway.
God is NOT cruel, Jackson. Obviously God is perfect. In His grace, mercy and justice.
And since all unbelievers FAILED to believe how to have eternal life, justice has no choice but to separate the unbeliever from God. Forever.
The annihilationists cannot prove that God WILL destroy any soul. He sure won't destroy the souls of the beast (aka antichrist) or the FP, since they will still be in the LOF when Satan gets thrown in there to join them. And they have been there for 1,000 years. Rev 20.
God creates souls. Surely He is able and can destroy them. But there is no verse that says He WILL. That is where the annihilationists go off the rails. This is because of their extreme hypersentitivity and sentimentality.
There admission that their view of ECT is CRUEL simply an admission, though unwittingly, that they are driven by their hypersensitive emotions. They have no idea of God's perfect justice.
Since no unbeliever was even interested in the biblical gospel message, God has no choice but to let them have their own way. They didn't want to know or believe God, they get the alternative; an eternity of torment over their very poor decisions.
And since all unbelievers FAILED to believe how to have eternal life, justice has no choice but to separate the unbeliever from God. Forever.
The annihilationists cannot prove that God WILL destroy any soul. He sure won't destroy the souls of the beast (aka antichrist) or the FP, since they will still be in the LOF when Satan gets thrown in there to join them. And they have been there for 1,000 years. Rev 20.
God creates souls. Surely He is able and can destroy them. But there is no verse that says He WILL. That is where the annihilationists go off the rails. This is because of their extreme hypersentitivity and sentimentality.
There admission that their view of ECT is CRUEL simply an admission, though unwittingly, that they are driven by their hypersensitive emotions. They have no idea of God's perfect justice.
Since no unbeliever was even interested in the biblical gospel message, God has no choice but to let them have their own way. They didn't want to know or believe God, they get the alternative; an eternity of torment over their very poor decisions.
This is done for NO GOOD REASON. It is repeated for no good reason. It continues on for no good reason.
PLEASE stop these provocations once and for all.
I point you to these words written of God so that you can be sure it is a JUST REQUEST and warning being made.
IF you DIDN'T KNOW OR FEEL that is what WAS taking place, then this post should make it perfectly clear.
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Matthew 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Matthew 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
2189. echthra
Strong's Concordance
echthra: enmity, hostility
2054. eris ►
Strong's Concordance
eris: strife
2054 éris(a primitive word, NAS dictionary) – literally quarrel, strife; properly, a readiness to quarrel (having a contentious spirit), affection for dispute.
Ancient Greek uses 2052 /eritheía ("mercenary self-seeking") of acting for one's own gain, regardless of the discord (strife) it causes. 2052 /eritheía ("selfish ambition") places self-interest ahead of what the Lord declares right, or what is good for others.
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
PLEASE stop these provocations once and for all.
I point you to these words written of God so that you can be sure it is a JUST REQUEST and warning being made.
IF you DIDN'T KNOW OR FEEL that is what WAS taking place, then this post should make it perfectly clear.
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Matthew 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Matthew 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
2189. echthra
Strong's Concordance
echthra: enmity, hostility
2054. eris ►
Strong's Concordance
eris: strife
2054 éris(a primitive word, NAS dictionary) – literally quarrel, strife; properly, a readiness to quarrel (having a contentious spirit), affection for dispute.
Ancient Greek uses 2052 /eritheía ("mercenary self-seeking") of acting for one's own gain, regardless of the discord (strife) it causes. 2052 /eritheía ("selfish ambition") places self-interest ahead of what the Lord declares right, or what is good for others.
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Do they also say Jesus is soulless? 
For we will be like Him.
For we will be like Him.
This works both ways though. That would theoretically mean that the unsaved don’t have a soul either and that once they’re destroyed then there’s nothing left of them because they are spiritually dead, soulless, and their bodies destroyed.
It actually refutes his entire belief in eternal conscious torment. He made this doctrine up on the fly to maintain plausible deniability in annihilationism, but even this has been shown to not make any sense. Is there any ground left for the eternal tormentor to stand on?
excellent verses. One thing I’ve definitely realized is there are certain people I can’t really have a Bible discussion with. Just through experience, I know it will eventually turn into spiritual warfare if not immediately. Stay vigilant.
Imagine if Jesus was here and He said, “Fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell.” Imagine if someone had the gall to argue with Him about it and when Jesus wouldn’t change His stance they called Him maudlin.
Well guess what? That’s kinda what happened. They called Jesus a drunkard and when we repeat Jesus’s words here we’re called maudlin. By dictionary definition, maudlin means someone is a crying drunk.
Matthew 15:18,19
18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Slander is a tool used by the devil. If the devil can get people to think we’re crying drunks and really believe it would weaken or influence and make us not credible. That’s what he wants. They tried it on Jesus too, but He changed the world anyway.
Imagine if Jesus was here and He said, “Fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell.” Imagine if someone had the gall to argue with Him about it and when Jesus wouldn’t change His stance they called Him maudlin.
Well guess what? That’s kinda what happened. They called Jesus a drunkard and when we repeat Jesus’s words here we’re called maudlin. By dictionary definition, maudlin means someone is a crying drunk.
Matthew 15:18,19
18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Slander is a tool used by the devil. If the devil can get people to think we’re crying drunks and really believe it would weaken or influence and make us not credible. That’s what he wants. They tried it on Jesus too, but He changed the world anyway.
2 Thess 1:8
in a fire of flame inflicting vengeance on those not knowing God and on those not obeying the gospel of the Lord of us Jesus
1557 ekdikésis
vengeance
vindication
full (complete) punishment
2 Thess 1:9
who [the] penalty will suffer of destruction,
eternal away from presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
3748 hostis, hétis, ho ti
whoever,
anyone who
whosoever
whichsoever
whatsoever
a decision
a judgment that regards someone as guilty or innocent
a recompense
5099 tinó
to pay
to pay a penalty
to be punished
3639 olethros
destruction
death
166 aiónios
agelong
eternal
575 apo
from
away from
of separation
4383 prosópon
the face
countenance
surface.
The judgment of Guilt means the punishment of death and death is the separation from God. And to be separated from God for all eternity means the lake of fire can not continue to exist.
Their penalty, their punishment is to be death
and death is the state of being forever (eternally) away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
a complete punishment on whomsoever receives a guilty judgement will be with death
FOREVER AWAY FROM the face, countenance, surface and presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
Death ISN'T ETERNAL TORMENT as we can see again here but is
DEATH IS separation
of being ETERNALLY AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD AND THE GLORY OF HIS POWER
So, the LAKE OF FIRE MUST PASS AWAY with the heaven and earth
OR it would BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD
And the SMOKE of their torment, they having been consumed, having gone into the lake of fire, having been sentenced to death, having been found guilty of not obeying the gospel or not knowing God, goes up forever and ever.
in a fire of flame inflicting vengeance on those not knowing God and on those not obeying the gospel of the Lord of us Jesus
1557 ekdikésis
vengeance
vindication
full (complete) punishment
2 Thess 1:9
who [the] penalty will suffer of destruction,
eternal away from presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
3748 hostis, hétis, ho ti
whoever,
anyone who
whosoever
whichsoever
whatsoever
1349 diké a decision
a judgment that regards someone as guilty or innocent
a recompense
5099 tinó
to pay
to pay a penalty
to be punished
3639 olethros
destruction
death
166 aiónios
agelong
eternal
575 apo
from
away from
of separation
4383 prosópon
the face
countenance
surface.
The judgment of Guilt means the punishment of death and death is the separation from God. And to be separated from God for all eternity means the lake of fire can not continue to exist.
Their penalty, their punishment is to be death
and death is the state of being forever (eternally) away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
a complete punishment on whomsoever receives a guilty judgement will be with death
FOREVER AWAY FROM the face, countenance, surface and presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him
Death ISN'T ETERNAL TORMENT as we can see again here but is
DEATH IS separation
of being ETERNALLY AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD AND THE GLORY OF HIS POWER
So, the LAKE OF FIRE MUST PASS AWAY with the heaven and earth
OR it would BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD
And the SMOKE of their torment, they having been consumed, having gone into the lake of fire, having been sentenced to death, having been found guilty of not obeying the gospel or not knowing God, goes up forever and ever.
The only silence is your lack of recognition of the ones that have been put forth.
You also seem to think that a 'dead' body can receive ANYTHING. A body who has no soul/spirit is dead decaying and going back to dust. It will never rise up. The flesh profits nothing. If a BODY were to receive immortality IT WOULD BE A ZOMBIE. No soul no spirit, just a big glob of dirt. A body without a soul/spirit is called A CARCASS. There is only one direction a carcass can go and that is decay.
SO ANYTHING that receives IMMORTALITY must be a BODY WITH A SOUL/SPIRIT.
As you have so clearly stated these many many pages BECOME IMMORTAL. A BODY CAN NOT DO ANYTHING but lay there and decay and become worm and bird food.
THE FLESH BODY is mortal BECAUSE WE KNOW the spirit/soul LEAVES IT when it's blood stops flowing. Man can and does kill that body but THE SPIRIT/SOUL CONTINUES ON.
If that soul/spirit has been BORN FROM ABOVE, BORN OF THE SPIRIT then at the death of that flesh the NEW CREATURE ascends to the place the Lord and Savior Christ Jesus prepared for us who never die, Who appears to us and who brings us to the Father. Having been BORN AGAIN, our spirit souls have received their immortality and with the natural body now just a carcass, have received our spiritual body. Some are under the altar right now having received white robes and are awaiting to return. Some are fellow servants like the one who John fell at the FEET of.
So, the flesh body ONLY carries the spirit and soul and only until IT DIES and the spiritual body takes over.
The spirit soul MUST BE BORN AGAIN to receive eternal life/immortality
WHAT do we know about this body we are currently in? What are we told to do with this VESSEL, this tabernacle this earthen clay pot?
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Christian are told to KILL THEIR FLESH BODIES. So why would their bodies ever be made immortal???
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Why make lustful flesh immortal?
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
So again, why would the flesh body be made immortal?
Precept on precept precept on precept verse by verse here a little there a little, THAT IS WHERE WE FIND OUR REST, HIS TRUTH.
You also seem to think that a 'dead' body can receive ANYTHING. A body who has no soul/spirit is dead decaying and going back to dust. It will never rise up. The flesh profits nothing. If a BODY were to receive immortality IT WOULD BE A ZOMBIE. No soul no spirit, just a big glob of dirt. A body without a soul/spirit is called A CARCASS. There is only one direction a carcass can go and that is decay.
SO ANYTHING that receives IMMORTALITY must be a BODY WITH A SOUL/SPIRIT.
As you have so clearly stated these many many pages BECOME IMMORTAL. A BODY CAN NOT DO ANYTHING but lay there and decay and become worm and bird food.
THE FLESH BODY is mortal BECAUSE WE KNOW the spirit/soul LEAVES IT when it's blood stops flowing. Man can and does kill that body but THE SPIRIT/SOUL CONTINUES ON.
If that soul/spirit has been BORN FROM ABOVE, BORN OF THE SPIRIT then at the death of that flesh the NEW CREATURE ascends to the place the Lord and Savior Christ Jesus prepared for us who never die, Who appears to us and who brings us to the Father. Having been BORN AGAIN, our spirit souls have received their immortality and with the natural body now just a carcass, have received our spiritual body. Some are under the altar right now having received white robes and are awaiting to return. Some are fellow servants like the one who John fell at the FEET of.
So, the flesh body ONLY carries the spirit and soul and only until IT DIES and the spiritual body takes over.
The spirit soul MUST BE BORN AGAIN to receive eternal life/immortality
WHAT do we know about this body we are currently in? What are we told to do with this VESSEL, this tabernacle this earthen clay pot?
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Christian are told to KILL THEIR FLESH BODIES. So why would their bodies ever be made immortal???
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Why make lustful flesh immortal?
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
So again, why would the flesh body be made immortal?
Precept on precept precept on precept verse by verse here a little there a little, THAT IS WHERE WE FIND OUR REST, HIS TRUTH.