FreeGrace2 said:
The words "put to death" is a clear reference to capital punishment, in which the body is killed.
Phony argument. The Bible IS VERY LITERAL on this. The resurrected body of unbelievers WILL most definitely die again, which is why the LOF is also called the second death. The literal body will die again, after the GWT judgment.
You know better, but prefer to make FALSE statements.
Wrong. You can't even explain HOW 2 humans, the beast and FP, can STILL be IN the LOF when Satan joins them.
Rev 19:20 says the beast and FP will be cast ALIVE in the LOF at the battle of Armageddon.
Rev 20:10 says Satan will be cast into the LOF where the beast and FP were thrown and THEY THEY THEY will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
So, we know that the beast and FP are STiLL there when Satan joins them 1,000 years later. It would be idiotic to argue that their mortal bodies will survive the fires of the LOF. So, what's left to survive? Their souls, obviously.
Then explain how the beast and FP are STILL in the LOF when Satan joins them.
No, the point is that 2 humans will be IN the LOF for 1,000 years before being joined by Satan and THEY THEY THEY will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I asked you to explain how that can be if souls of unbelievers will cease to exist when thrown into the SECOND DEATH.
And you want to tell me what the point is. Yeah, sure.
there is ample proof in the Bible that the soul is not unconditionally immortal
I just proved the opposite from Rev 19:20 and Rev 29:10.
there is no eternal life in hell or the LOF
No one ever said there was. You've been corrected multiple times on this nonsense, but you persist.
and the unsaved are destroyed/put to death.
Please explain how the beast and FP will be STILL IN the LOF after 1,000 years and will continue to be in there day and night for ever and ever.
The Bible is literal on these points.
I have always agreed on the use of "death", "perish" and "destroy". They ARE literal. And they refer to the body, not the sou.
The proof is the very existence (NOT eternal life, which is a stupid notion) of both the beast and FP who are thrown into the LOF alive, meaning they are in their physical body, and are still there after 1,000 years. Obviously, their bodies burned up and rather quickly, I would expect. But the Bible SAYS the beast and FP are STILL THERE. And you ignore these facts.
In the Old Testament you’ll not find a single reference to eternal conscious torment; neither in those specific words or in any sort of description.
An argument from silence, huh. Your whole notion is destroyed by 2 verses: Rev 19:20 and 20:10.
Show me any passage that speaks about the LOF. Does the OT even mention the LOF? You tell me.
People in the days of Jesus knew this, too, and so did Jesus. Jesus never said anything about going into eternal conscious torment.
Yes, He did. Luke 16 and the poor man and rich man who both died and went to Hades. Neither had their bodies, because they were in graves, yet they were very conscious, to the point that the rich man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth to warn his 5 brothers so they wouldn't come to the same fate as he. And the rich man was clearly in torments.
Your claims arfe idiotic against what Scripture.
Jesus was in step with all of the prophets before Him who said the wicked are destroyed forever, hence why Jesus said those who don’t believe in Him, the Messiah, will perish.
All that is literal for the physical death of the body.
Revelation 20 is specific about 3 individual persons being tormented forever, not all of the unsaved or it would say so.
Too bad the Bible just isn't up to YOUR standards of communication.
With Jesus' account of a poor man and a rich man, proving that souls ARE conscious after death, and all unbelievers (except 2) will get their mortal physical back in their resurrection for the GWT, it should be obvious to anyone with an open mind that the SECOND DEATH refers to the literal death of the resurrected physical body again. That's why the Bible says SECOND DEATH.
There is NO account of any soul dying before the GWT judgment.
You’re using a logical fallacy, attempting to demonstrate that causation equals correlation but that isn’t how this works.
I've been "telling you how it works", over and over, but your mind is closed tight. The LOF is the SECOND DEATH, which is the second death of the physical body.
The Bible calls the lake of fire the second death for a reason.
I've been telling you that reason.
It’s because it’s literal death.
That is idiotic. When unbelievers are cast into the LOF, their physical bodies will have died TWICE. But apparently you can't count.
Side note, Isaiah 34 shows forever is not necessarily literally forever.
Does Isa 34 include the words "day and night" in the "for ever and ever".
You just showed your total lack of discernment with what is literal and what is figurative. Isa 34 is figurative, while Rev 20:10 is literal.
Dead souls and bodies are resurrected from the sea, death, and hell.
Nonsesnse. Jesus' account in Luke 16 PROVES you are dead wrong. Lazarus and the rich man were very much conscious and not dead at all. And Rev 6 has the souls of saints in heaven talking.
Resurrected from death. Resurrected from death. I said this a few times because it’s worth repeating.
Why don't you take your own repetition. The ONLY thing that gets resurrected is the physical body.
THE chapter on resurrection is 1 Cor 15, and Paul's only focus is about the body.
There are NO VERSES in the Bible about soul resurrection. You are so desperate you are just making up this junk.
Revelation 20:13 KJV
And the
sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.'QOUTE]
Appafently it didn't occur to you what is IN the sea are the dead bodies of people. I think yo are beyond help.
They are resurrected from death because they aren’t alive in torment; they’re dead.
Why don't you ask the rich man, who begged Abraham to send Lazarus over and have a drop of water land on his tongue.
You really don't know the Bible or just don't understand what you read.
After the book of life is checked to see if they are in it, those who are not in the book of life go to the second death. They will die again, body and soul, and not life forever under any condition.
Your fantasy only. Just like the beast and FP, their resurrected bodies will die again and their souls will experience the same fate as the beast and FP.
I already know you’re going to argue and now you’ll say something like only their physical body is put to death. Okay, so how does literal fire torment an immaterial soul?
Why ask me? The Bible doesn't cater to your silly demands for answers. What I know is that the beast and FP will have been IN the LOF for 1,000 years when Satan joins them for ever and ever, in torment.
And immediately following v.10 is the GWT judtment, where all resurrected unbelievers will join the beast, FP, Satan and all his angels.
It would be the height of absurdity to presume that those from the GWT judgment wouldn't get the SAME FATE as beast, FP and angels.
But that's where you are. In the height of absurdity.
I have refuted everything in your post, but the deception you are in won't let you see that.
How is that a punishment for unbelievers who don’t even care about God anyway?
To be tormented for ever and ever? You don't think that is a punishment? They WILL clearly realize they chose wrong.
And the rich man in Hades was in torments and didn't want his 5 brothers to make the same mistake.
Sounds like they’ll just be bored forever?
This kind of absurd comment makes me wonder is you are normal. How can someone being tormented will ever get bored?
Are you serious?
Seriously, ECT interpretation is so weak and just doesn’t make any sense.
I would say your discernment is so weak.
