"Holy Ghost Power...

[GRACE_ambassador]

...

"For our Gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, ​

and in The Holy Ghost, and in Much Assurance; as ye know what ​

manner of men we were among you for your sake” (I Thes. 1:5).​

When Paul speaks here of how his Gospel came to the Thessalonians “in power,
and in the Holy Ghost,” our Pentecostal friends might suggest that he was speaking
about miraculous power...

...The power of God is not being expressed today as it was at Pentecost, when even
The LORD’s enemies had to admit that “a notable miracle” had been performed by
His Holy Ghost-Filled apostles (Acts 4:16). Notable miracles like this are conspicuous
by their absence in the present age, an age which began with The LORD responding
to Paul’s prayer for healing With These Words:

“My Grace Is Sufficient For thee: for My Strength Is ​

Made Perfect in weakness” (II Cor. 12:7-9).​

Quite obviously, a dispensational change had taken place since Pentecost, where
the power of the Holy Ghost was seen when we read of the sick that “they were
healed every one” (Acts 5:16). Paul showed that he recognized this dispensational
change when he responded to The LORD’s Promise Of Sufficient Grace with these
words:

“Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, ​

that The Power Of Christ may rest upon me” (II Cor. 12:9).​

Paul concluded from our LORD’s Words that in the dispensation of Grace the
power of Christ would no longer be demonstrated in the miraculous healing
of weaknesses. It would now rather be displayed when believers show God’s
Strength in the midst of their weaknesses, as the Apostle Paul did in the midst
of his struggle with his thorn in the flesh (vv. 7-9)...

...On the basis of our text, we believe that God’s power is not just displayed
today in the weakness of physical infirmity, but also in the kind of weakness
Paul experienced in Thessalonica, the weakness caused by the persecution
and opposition of the unbelieving Jews of that city.

If we had to sum it all up, we would extrapolate from these examples and say
that God’s power is not seen today in the removing of any of our adversities, but
rather in the Sustaining Grace that He So Abundantly Supplies us in the midst of
them. What a revolutionary change!...

...how about you? Does the power of the Holy Ghost appear in your manner of
life, as others observe what manner of person you are among them?...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study: Holy Ghost Power



GRACE And Peace...

 

[JTB]

There are times God has sustained me, But I've also seen literal mountains into the sea type miracles.

Why do you think it has to be either/or but not both?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Salvation from hell to a new destiny in heaven is the greatest miracle that I can think of.

I'd rather be saved than a lost man who crossed the Red Sea.

That said, I've seen many answered prayers and miraculous healings. They didn't happen at a Benny.Hinn service either.
I do see more miracles attesting to the man of God's message to confirm that it was truly his message at those times when God wanted to do so in the Bible. These were often public displays of grand healings, etc . This was very important until the copies of the epistles and b
Gospels circulated to the early churches.

I have a hand written rough draft of many miracles that occured in my little life. My purpose is to encourage others to make Jesus the Object of their faith. I've been utterly blessed numerous times, so it's my privilege to share with others these events so God gets more glory that He deserves.

 

[Lafftur]

Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, today and forever!

No need to get caught up or side tracked in “miracle” debates… look rather at the grand scheme of the beginning to the end…

God is at work and on the Earth. The Father is the Master Architect with the Plan which happens to be a scroll with 7 seals.

Jesus Christ is the General Contractor that the Scroll has been given to so that He is in charged with doing all that it says.

The Holy Spirit is the Foreman - the One on the Earth now with us at the “job site.”

The angels and saints are the laborers. We are lead by God’s Word (General Contractor Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit (Foreman) in us and operating in us to accomplish the Father’s Master Plan….

Heavenly Father, Your Kingdom come, Your Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, amen.

 

[wattie]

Remember the verse 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever ' has context around it that isn't about sign gifts but the surety of His promises and 2nd coming.

Gotta keep a brick in its wall or the whole wall could collapse.

Gotta keep a verse in its surrounds or the whole passage loses its meaning.

 

[shittim]

"Quite obviously, a dispensational change had taken place since Pentecost "


Any change is not from His realm, the problem is down here from unbelief and such.
When we draw near to Him, He promises to draw near to us. God keeps His promises.

 

[Evmur]

...

"For our Gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, ​

and in The Holy Ghost, and in Much Assurance; as ye know what ​

manner of men we were among you for your sake” (I Thes. 1:5).​

When Paul speaks here of how his Gospel came to the Thessalonians “in power,
and in the Holy Ghost,” our Pentecostal friends might suggest that he was speaking
about miraculous power...

...The power of God is not being expressed today as it was at Pentecost, when even
The LORD’s enemies had to admit that “a notable miracle” had been performed by
His Holy Ghost-Filled apostles (Acts 4:16). Notable miracles like this are conspicuous
by their absence in the present age, an age which began with The LORD responding
to Paul’s prayer for healing With These Words:

“My Grace Is Sufficient For thee: for My Strength Is ​

Made Perfect in weakness” (II Cor. 12:7-9).​

Quite obviously, a dispensational change had taken place since Pentecost, where
the power of the Holy Ghost was seen when we read of the sick that “they were
healed every one” (Acts 5:16). Paul showed that he recognized this dispensational
change when he responded to The LORD’s Promise Of Sufficient Grace with these
words:

“Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, ​

that The Power Of Christ may rest upon me” (II Cor. 12:9).​

Paul concluded from our LORD’s Words that in the dispensation of Grace the
power of Christ would no longer be demonstrated in the miraculous healing
of weaknesses. It would now rather be displayed when believers show God’s
Strength in the midst of their weaknesses, as the Apostle Paul did in the midst
of his struggle with his thorn in the flesh (vv. 7-9)...

...On the basis of our text, we believe that God’s power is not just displayed
today in the weakness of physical infirmity, but also in the kind of weakness
Paul experienced in Thessalonica, the weakness caused by the persecution
and opposition of the unbelieving Jews of that city.

If we had to sum it all up, we would extrapolate from these examples and say
that God’s power is not seen today in the removing of any of our adversities, but
rather in the Sustaining Grace that He So Abundantly Supplies us in the midst of
them. What a revolutionary change!...

...how about you? Does the power of the Holy Ghost appear in your manner of
life, as others observe what manner of person you are among them?...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study: Holy Ghost Power

View attachment 242851

GRACE And Peace...

With respect sir.
2 Cor: 12. 7 - 10
And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from being too elated

three times I besought the Lord about this that it should leave me. But He said "My grace is sufficient for you for My power is made perfect in weakness."

I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ then I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities, for when I am weak then I am strong.

People not only interpret this for sickness but for besetting sin. They say "look Paul had besetting sin that the Lord allowed to keep him humble" not that they have an abundance of revelation themselves. But they say Paul had sickness which the Lord would not heal.

Paul tells us what the thorn in the flesh was.

It was a messenger of Satan sent to harass him, he tells us what this harassment amounted to, weaknesses, insults, persecutions and calamities.

The shipwrecks, the hunger, the beatings, the stonings. Nothing to do with besetting sin or sickness.

When does Mr Kurth believe this new dispensation kicked in for we find on Paul's last journey the power of God on him to heal was so mighty that they made aprons of his clothes to lay on the sick and drive out devils Acts 28.

Why would Paul plant churches with ministries of healing, exorcism, miracles, prophecies etc?

Paul dealt in the miraculous and in the demonstration of the Holy Ghost Galatians 3.5.

 

[Evmur]

Remember the verse 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever ' has context around it that isn't about sign gifts but the surety of His promises and 2nd coming.

Gotta keep a brick in its wall or the whole wall could collapse.

Gotta keep a verse in its surrounds or the whole passage loses its meaning.

yeh but what ARE the promises?

 

[Dirtman]

Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, today and forever!

No need to get caught up or side tracked in “miracle” debates… look rather at the grand scheme of the beginning to the end…

God is at work and on the Earth. The Father is the Master Architect with the Plan which happens to be a scroll with 7 seals.

Jesus Christ is the General Contractor that the Scroll has been given to so that He is in charged with doing all that it says.

The Holy Spirit is the Foreman - the One on the Earth now with us at the “job site.”

The angels and saints are the laborers. We are lead by God’s Word (General Contractor Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit (Foreman) in us and operating in us to accomplish the Father’s Master Plan….

Heavenly Father, Your Kingdom come, Your Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven, amen.

Well thats an interesting analogy

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

"For our Gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in The Holy Ghost, and in Much Assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake” (I Thes. 1:5)...

For skeptics, there is More - what is this about?:

...1Th 1:6 "And ye became followers of us, and of The LORD, having
received The Word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost"?

Doesn't seem to me that this is the same as the "miracles, signs, and
wonders" power At Pentecost. Of course, one could always "reject this
immediate Context" Of This Passage, and move backwards from Christ's
Heavenly Message For This Dispensation Of GRACE, to: The Previous
earthly message Under the dispensation of the law, So, we kindly ask:

Is There More Than one Gospel?

R Kurth continues:
"
...What a revolutionary change!

As we return to our text, we see that the Exhibition of Holy Ghost Power
in the midst of our weaknesses [affliction?] has a pleasant side effect in
the hearts and lives of men. As the apostle states here, the Holy Ghost
power that he evidenced in Thessalonica gave the Thessalonians “Much
Assurance” that his words Were God’s Words (I Thes. 1:5).

This too represented a dispensational change. Under the kingdom program,
miraculous signs were used of God to assure men that the words of His
apostles were His Words, for when The LORD Commissioned the twelve,
we read that “they went forth, and preached every where, The LORD
Working With them, and Confirming The Word With signs following”
(Mark 16:20).

Clearly, under the kingdom program, miraculous signs confirmed the words
of the apostles, and gave people “much assurance” that their words were
God’s Words.

In Thessalonica, however, it was the God-Given Strength that Paul
showed in the midst of his weakness that confirmed his words among
the Thessalonians, and gave them “Much Assurance” that his words were
God’s Words.

And in the absence of miraculous Holy Ghost power today in The Dispensation
Of Grace, showing God’s Strength in the midst of our weaknesses remains the
only way to give others “much assurance” that our words are God’s Words.

While some might scoff at the idea that Divine Strength Displayed in the
midst of weakness could ever convey the same amount of confirmation
and assurance as was communicated by miracles, we would submit that
More Of God’s Power is seen today than was seen at Pentecost.

After all, what Displays The Power Of God More, the healing of a sickness
or the Strength that He Supplies to endure that same sickness for years,
decades, or even for an entire lifetime?

If you know anything about the frailty of human nature, you know that
God’s Strength is seen more in Sustaining Grace than in the removal of
thorns from our flesh.

If you are not convinced of this, however, consider that while it is an
impressive display of power when a surgeon is able to excise a man’s
pain, it is an even More Impressive Display of power when the Strength
Of God Enables a believer to cheerfully endure chronic pain for forty,
fifty, even sixty years or more.

This is important to remember, especially if, like many believers, you
think that your words to the lost would be so much more powerful if
only you could work a miracle to confirm your words.

Based on what we have seen, we would suggest that the strength you
show in the midst of all the adversities * of life demonstrates Holy Ghost
power in a way that far surpasses the confirming signs of Pentecost..."
(R Kurth, pg 21)

* We concur, as I have had chronic "cartilage depletion" for years now,
and also our precious blind [since birth] daughter is now 32. In the
midst of these infirmities, we are joyful and Very Thankful to God,
recognizing His Much Assuring Word Of ALL-Sufficient GRACE! (2Co 12:9):

Rom 8:26 "Likewise The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: ​

for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but ​

The Spirit itself Maketh Intercession for us with groanings ​

which cannot be uttered." (cp 2 Corinthians 4:17-18)​

GRACE And Peace, and Much Assurance!

 

[phil36]

For skeptics, there is More - what is this about?:

...1Th 1:6 "And ye became followers of us, and of The LORD, having
received The Word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost"?

Doesn't seem to me that this is the same as the "miracles, signs, and
wonders" power At Pentecost. Of course, one could always "reject this
immediate Context" Of This Passage, and move backwards from Christ's
Heavenly Message For This Dispensation Of GRACE, to: The Previous
earthly message Under the dispensation of the law, So, we kindly ask:

Is There More Than one Gospel?

R Kurth continues:
"
...What a revolutionary change!

As we return to our text, we see that the Exhibition of Holy Ghost Power
in the midst of our weaknesses [affliction?] has a pleasant side effect in
the hearts and lives of men. As the apostle states here, the Holy Ghost
power that he evidenced in Thessalonica gave the Thessalonians “Much
Assurance” that his words Were God’s Words (I Thes. 1:5).

This too represented a dispensational change. Under the kingdom program,
miraculous signs were used of God to assure men that the words of His
apostles were His Words, for when The LORD Commissioned the twelve,
we read that “they went forth, and preached every where, The LORD
Working With them, and Confirming The Word With signs following”
(Mark 16:20).

Clearly, under the kingdom program, miraculous signs confirmed the words
of the apostles, and gave people “much assurance” that their words were
God’s Words.

In Thessalonica, however, it was the God-Given Strength that Paul
showed in the midst of his weakness that confirmed his words among
the Thessalonians, and gave them “Much Assurance” that his words were
God’s Words.

And in the absence of miraculous Holy Ghost power today in The Dispensation
Of Grace, showing God’s Strength in the midst of our weaknesses remains the
only way to give others “much assurance” that our words are God’s Words.

While some might scoff at the idea that Divine Strength Displayed in the
midst of weakness could ever convey the same amount of confirmation
and assurance as was communicated by miracles, we would submit that
More Of God’s Power is seen today than was seen at Pentecost.

After all, what Displays The Power Of God More, the healing of a sickness
or the Strength that He Supplies to endure that same sickness for years,
decades, or even for an entire lifetime?

If you know anything about the frailty of human nature, you know that
God’s Strength is seen more in Sustaining Grace than in the removal of
thorns from our flesh.

If you are not convinced of this, however, consider that while it is an
impressive display of power when a surgeon is able to excise a man’s
pain, it is an even More Impressive Display of power when the Strength
Of God Enables a believer to cheerfully endure chronic pain for forty,
fifty, even sixty years or more.

This is important to remember, especially if, like many believers, you
think that your words to the lost would be so much more powerful if
only you could work a miracle to confirm your words.

Based on what we have seen, we would suggest that the strength you
show in the midst of all the adversities * of life demonstrates Holy Ghost
power in a way that far surpasses the confirming signs of Pentecost..."
(R Kurth, pg 21)

* We concur, as I have had chronic "cartilage depletion" for years now,
and also our precious blind [since birth] daughter is now 32. In the
midst of these infirmities, we are joyful and Very Thankful to God,
recognizing His Much Assuring Word Of ALL-Sufficient GRACE! (2Co 12:9):

Rom 8:26 "Likewise The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: ​

for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but ​

The Spirit itself Maketh Intercession for us with groanings ​

which cannot be uttered." (cp 2 Corinthians 4:17-18)​

GRACE And Peace, and Much Assurance!

Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God......

.... This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.

..... God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. (Acts 19:8;10;11)

Hi Grace ambassador. your 2 gospel tale doesn't fit with scripture. Paul does not teach another gospel than which Christ taught.. In fact christ himself, his life/teachings and work, are the gospel itself. We have this in the gospel narratives.. Paul beautifully and masterfully brings out or expounds this message especially as he writes his letters to the churches he planted.

Of course where the Gospels are in narrative form, Paul gives us explanation in propositional form. This is because his letters are in direct response to either questions (orally/written - 1Cor 1:11;5:1) or situations arising.

I think its also wonderfully that we see that Paul always went to the Jews first then the greeks/Gentiles as was his habit.


When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women. Acts 17:1ff.



Paul proclaims the same message as all other apostles.


Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them —yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.


(you have tried to go to extraordinary lengths in saying that Paul did not use miracles as signs like the other Apostles.. Again this 2 gospel theory fails).