Working out : Your Salvation

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wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#21
Oh.. and when Jesus said He would baptise with the Holy Spirit.. this wasn't for giving eternal salvation.. this was empowering a church.. for a corporate local church.. they were baptised ..but it was for empowerment.. 'upon' ... not 'indwelling'
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,725
113
#22
I suggest you begin your study of the passage without needing to decide a bunch of things that it can't mean: I see at least the following presuppositions listed here:

(1) To "work out your salvation" cannot mean that you can lose your salvation
(2) To "work out your salvation" does not mean to work out your discipleship
(3) To "work out your salvation" does not mean obtaining salvation
(4) to "work out your salvation" does not mean water baptism
(5) To "work out your salvation" does not mean anything to do with PROOF of salvation

My point is not that I believe any or all of the above five points are true. My point is that we should not come to study of a passage of Scripture with a list of predetermined doctrinal positions.

If Scripture means what it says and can be understood by any born again person with the Holy Spirit in them, then just study the Scripture itself and let it speak what it says.
“If Scripture means what it says”

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, ( repentance is essential )


For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1, 4-

Does it mean what it says ?

“Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:23-31‬ ‭

it seems like it’s saying pretty basic things we can’t keep sinning and saying “ I’m saved already I can never “lose my salvation “ because the scriptire is really clear

Can’t keep living like this because the wrath of Godnis coming upon those who do


“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

that’s a warning so we don’t think “ I’m already saved it doesn’t matter what I do now I’m already in glory of I sin I sin God no longer cares yay!” Paul’s intentionally giving this sobering straight forward warning to the church because there were then and still are many who twist and omit his wrotings into what they aren’t

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we take out the teaching and rebuke and exhortation part it leaves a word “grace” that’s not going to help anyone because they are denying Gods own word
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,821
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#23
.
It's not easy for Roman Catholics to construct their own salvation.

Once someone is fully committed by completing First Holy Communion and
Confirmation and undergone Christian baptism --God will holds them
accountable to comply with everything Rome teaches and stands for: the
Commandments, the Canon Law, the dogma, the rituals, the Traditions, the
Councils, the Bulls, the Encyclicals, the rites, the holy days of obligation, and
the entire Catechism; plus everything that Jesus and the apostles taught in
the New Testament, i.e. all four gospels and all twenty-one epistles, plus
Acts and Revelation.

That's a lot to remember, let alone put into practice.

And then there's the matter of mortal sin. When Catholics leave this life with
just one mortal sin on the books awaiting absolution, just one, they go
straight to Hell. It's a direct flight; no stopover in a Purgatory. Even if a
Catholic managed to be a top performer in faith and practice for fifty years,
none of that will be taken into consideration. They will leave this life as if
they'd been a pagan the whole time. Mortal sins are that lethal.

In addition; the Almighty isn't a political appointee like members of the US
Supreme Court, viz; He isn't biased towards the left or to the right, i.e. the
justice of God is fair across the board regardless of age, race, gender and/or
religious preference, so that affiliation with Rome grants no one a certain
amount of special consideration. (Rom 2:6-11, and 1Pet 1:17)
_
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
113
#24
Thanks OP for this to go back and reread.. just " regard others as more important than yourselves. 4 Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. "

I like how the AMP says it. If we read Chapter 1 and then 2 we find just what it means "So then, my dear ones, just as you have always obeyed [my instructions with enthusiasm], not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ"

I love how Chester said it.. just read it for what it says not adding any speculation. I work it out to grow stronger in the lord for one thing...on and on
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#25
“If Scripture means what it says”

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, ( repentance is essential )


For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1, 4-

Does it mean what it says ?

“Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:23-31‬ ‭

it seems like it’s saying pretty basic things we can’t keep sinning and saying “ I’m saved already I can never “lose my salvation “ because the scriptire is really clear

Can’t keep living like this because the wrath of Godnis coming upon those who do


“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭

that’s a warning so we don’t think “ I’m already saved it doesn’t matter what I do now I’m already in glory of I sin I sin God no longer cares yay!” Paul’s intentionally giving this sobering straight forward warning to the church because there were then and still are many who twist and omit his wrotings into what they aren’t

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we take out the teaching and rebuke and exhortation part it leaves a word “grace” that’s not going to help anyone because they are denying Gods own word
Hebrews 10 is primarily about animal sacrifice. So 'if we sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins'..
The Hebrew believer can no longer go and sacrifice an animal .. but they are to look unto Jesus the ultimate Lamb.. who Has done away with the old system of sacrifices.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#26
-

The verse partially says.......

"work out your Salvation".

It does not say...."try not to lose it".
It does not say..... "work out your discipleship".


So, what does the verse mean?
How do you "work it out"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reader,


This is a Very important question, and it needs a skilled answer.

First, understand that that this verse is not teaching that you can lose your salvation, and you have to work it out to try to keep from losing it.
Its not that.
And you know that the verse does not say...>"work our your discipleship".
So, This means that you are to work out your Salvation....as that is what the verse says.... and so how do you do that?

1.) First, you have to understand that you HAVE IT.
You have it.. You have Salvation.
How do you know? = You are born again., as that is the ONLY PROOF that you have Salvation, and if you are not born again, you can't work out what you don't have., as you don't have it yet.
And you DON"T receive Salvation by being water baptized, as that just gets your body wet.
Salvation is not about getting wet....its about becoming a : "new Creation IN CHRIST">
And to be IN THERE........"IN"..."Christ",........ you have to be born again to get IN THERE..
See it?

Being born again, is a Spiritual BIRTH, that God causes you to BECOME as a "SON/Daughter" of God.
God births your spirit into HIS Spirit, through the Holy Spirit.
You become BORN.....AGAIN.....Spiritually, and now exist... "IN">.. Christ........"ONE with God".
= This is what it means to become a : "new Creation".

2.) Now. Do you see all that?
Do you see how your BODY and your MIND< is not your SPIRIT? And its only your SPIRIT That is Born again = INTO The Spirit of God, BY the Holy Spirit?
See that?
= Salvation is becoming THAT "New Creation". Being Born again, is to have become the "new Creation" "in Christ".
And if you are born again, then THAT which is born again, your Spirit, is the REAL YOU.
Not your body, or your mind.

Its not your body, and that is not your MIND that is born again......Its your SPIRIT.

And where does it now and forever exist : as BORN AGAIN?
It exists as "ONE with God". "seated IN Heavenly Places". 'IN, Christ"
This is : "Spiritual UNION" with God and Christ...... This is to have become "made Righteous"..=as Born.... AGAIN.
This is to have received SALVATION, that is a "GIFT"
The "GIFT OF SALVATION"= you have it if you are born again because God gave it to you BECAUSE you BELIEVED IN JESUS.
You gave God your faith in Christ and God gave you Salvation Through Christ.
Isnt that Amazing?
Thats the GRACE of God.

3.) Now, do you see how you are understanding what it means to have BECOME a CHRISTian?
Can you SEE what im showing you?
If you can see it, then you are "working out your Salvation"... as to work it out is to understand (discern) how to exist within what you have been given by God, regarding gaining the right understanding of : "the GIFT of Salvation".

Now, when you have a good grasp on that LIGHT, you can TEACH IT. And then you have helped a class, or a person, or your mother, understand how to work out their Salvation.
That's "ministry", and its a very good one.
Few can teach it, because Few understand it.
Now you are getting there....

See, you thought to '"work out your salvation".... was to try to be good, or to try to be like Christ... or to try to keep from losing it.
Nope.
That is not how you work out your Salvation....
You work out your Salvation, that you have been GIVEN BY GOD AS "the Gift of Salvation".. = by gaining REVELATION KNOWLEDGE regarding who you have become as a NEW CREATION, IN CHRIST.
"coming to the KNOWLEDGE" of this revelation, is how you "work out your Salvation".

Saint, Spiritual WORK is not self effort.

See that?
If you do, then you are now initially gaining understanding (Light) regarding how to work out your Salvation.
Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#27
So, what does the verse mean? How do you "work it out"?
Salvation is in three phases: (1) justification, (2) sanctification and (3) glorification. Paul is speaking here about sanctification, in which the Holy Spirit transforms the believer more and more from the likeness of Adam into the likeness of Christ. This is by "walking in the Spirit" and "mortifying the flesh" by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. In practical terms it is being righteous and holy in thoughts, words, and deeds and making no provision for sin.

TITUS 2: LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTEOUSLY, AND GODLY, WHILE DOING GOOD WORKS
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,725
113
#28
Hebrews 10 is primarily about animal sacrifice. So 'if we sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins'..
The Hebrew believer can no longer go and sacrifice an animal .. but they are to look unto Jesus the ultimate Lamb.. who Has done away with the old system of sacrifices.
oh ok that’s one way to avoid it