What is Faith?

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pablocito

Guest
#41
We see how creation came forth from his word from things that weren’t there but he spoke it forth. That is the first principle of faith of God declares anything it is certain even before we see it we have the evidence because God said it was so , that’s all the proof we need

I agree with what you said as far as a believer is concerned.
But I have one question for you how does an unbeliever gain faith. Is it possible.?
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
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#42
Greek word for hope
HELPS Word-studies
1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

You expect your hope to appear in this physical world ------hope is always in the future ---

God will supply all your needs --------a JOB is a need -----you apply for the job ------your hope is expecting to get the job -----you should always have your neck stretched out in expectation of receiving your hope ----
 
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pablocito

Guest
#43
It’s that simple to me. Faith is something someone hopes for. Keywords are hope and evidence. Evidence isn’t proof, I might add. Evidence is someone’s personal testimony about something they have experienced. Evidence isn’t something someone else can experience, it’s only something they can have faith in.

For example, your testimony is evidence, my testimony is evidence, the Bible is evidence, etc. That’s why pointless arguments are typically best avoided even with fellow believers because so much of the evidence is open to interpretation.

It’s better for individuals to get their own experiences and evidences; thus, God requires faith. To us who have experiences, it becomes proof.

Being a credible witness of good character, it’s possible to give a compelling testimony. When someone “hurts their witness” they are, in effect, damaging their credibility as a Christian. That’s all a big part of why we are called live a certain way as Christians.

Apparently, Solomon, the wisest man on the face of the earth did hurt his own witness, several times, which eventually caused God to take away the kingdom from his seed, after his demise.

I agree with your assessment but if we only relied on our apparent successes as a Christian, apparently we could easily give up if things are not going our way.

For example Job believed God in spite of the devil's desolation of him.

According to Paul, suffering is the hallmark of the Christian life. How do we reconcile the suffering that is necessary with our faith.

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

I am here only opening up the discussion so that we can get both sides of the story. As the song goes "It's not an easy road".
 
Jan 31, 2021
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#44
The bible states that -
"Without faith it is impossible to please God"

So what is the definition of faith?

The bible's definition of faith is -

Faith is the substance of things hoped for,
The evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)

In our world of the 5 senses (and for some who also claim a 6th sense),
the bible's definition is out of this world, and does not fit any model of any known definition on the face of this earth.

Can you imagine sending some astronauts to the moon and telling them, we hope you reach there, because we really don't have any evidence that you will actually reach there.

You probably would have to go to the mental institutions or "like places" to secure any volunteers for such a mission. For sure the millionaire, with his huge wealth here on this earth would not go.

Everyone in today's world in his right state of mind, will want some guarantee for anything he does.

Would you go to your job, working for 8 hours, knowing that there is no guarantee that you will be paid. I doubt it, especially with the scams and greed that people resort to.

I wonder if anyone would like to comment on this definition of faith by the bible, for faith is the requirement into the kingdom of God.
OK, I read all the posts on the first page, and some of them are very well said! But I didn't see the word that I believe nails it the best.

That word is "trust". To say "I have faith in....." is to mean "I trust.......".

Salvation is a trust issue. Do you believe that God exists? Do you believe what God promises? Do you trust God?

One won't drive over a bridge that they don't trust. One won't believe a politician that they don't trust. (hopefully).

Those who believe the promise of God about His Son also trust what God promises.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#45
Apparently, Solomon, the wisest man on the face of the earth did hurt his own witness, several times, which eventually caused God to take away the kingdom from his seed, after his demise.

I agree with your assessment but if we only relied on our apparent successes as a Christian, apparently we could easily give up if things are not going our way.

For example Job believed God in spite of the devil's desolation of him.

According to Paul, suffering is the hallmark of the Christian life. How do we reconcile the suffering that is necessary with our faith.

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

I am here only opening up the discussion so that we can get both sides of the story. As the song goes "It's not an easy road".
Some of the “it’s not an easy road” bit is actually that we aren’t perfectly walking according to God’s commands. Many challenges, trials, tribulations, hardships, and discipline actually come from God trying to either protect us from something worse, teach us something else, or divert us back to a correct path.

Independently of walking the strait and narrow, there can still be many problems in the world, but Jesus still overcame the world.
 
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pablocito

Guest
#46
But the power of God certainly can seem like magic. When I look back on my life I can see things that have happened for which there is no natural law explanation. Even secular people have had inexplicable experiences and just like me they don't "truly" recognize God's intervention. It took me 50+ years to acknowledge God intervening in my life. I don't think our work is as hard as Noah's was but possibly in some cases yes.
Again I agree with you that it is all the power of God. Four years ago when I first began to read and follow the teachings of the bible, I was on cloud 9.
My close family and friends around me, chalked it up to beginner's enchantment, thinking that I would soon come down back to earth.

Little did they know that God's work is permanent and that I would become more assertive that God was personally leading me, which of course became an irritant to them.

Most if not all have deserted me, thinking maybe that I was a little bit too enthusiastic about God and his word, when I was only a newbie and they were stalwarts in God's kingdom.

There is a verse in the bible that gives me comfort.

Isa 5:8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
Isa 5:9 In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.

The Apostle Paul, near the end of his journey, wrote a letter to Timothy saying that all men had deserted him but God was with him.

2Ti 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#47
Did Peter and the disciples understand things that Jesus was teaching? They did not have the Holy Spirit...
Do you understand everything that Jesus taught? I do not think that I do, and I am pretty sure that no one does. All of us that are born again understand as much of Jesus's teaching as the Holy Spirit, within us, reveals.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#48
Did Peter and the disciples understand things that Jesus was teaching? They did not have the Holy Spirit...
I beg to differ, they did have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, even the old testament saints also had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 63:11). All who are born again, from the beginning until the end, are born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#49
Do you understand everything that Jesus taught? I do not think that I do, and I am pretty sure that no one does. All of us that are born again understand as much of Jesus's teaching as the Holy Spirit, within us, reveals.
Agreed, but the disciples understood much of what Jesus taught and yet they did not have the Holy Spirit.
 
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persistent

Guest
#50
Again I agree with you that it is all the power of God. Four years ago when I first began to read and follow the teachings of the bible, I was on cloud 9.
My close family and friends around me, chalked it up to beginner's enchantment, thinking that I would soon come down back to earth.

Little did they know that God's work is permanent and that I would become more assertive that God was personally leading me, which of course became an irritant to them.

Most if not all have deserted me, thinking maybe that I was a little bit too enthusiastic about God and his word, when I was only a newbie and they were stalwarts in God's kingdom.

There is a verse in the bible that gives me comfort.

Isa 5:8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
Isa 5:9 In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.

The Apostle Paul, near the end of his journey, wrote a letter to Timothy saying that all men had deserted him but God was with him.

2Ti 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
Hey Pablocito, hang in there. I am still not too well versed with scripture but now I know that praying really helps. My first real advance was the realization that the 1st verse of psalm 1 was not who I was or even wanted to be, Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. That verse didn't come close to describing my life. So decide if you would like to be like verse 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#51
I beg to differ, they did have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, even the old testament saints also had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 63:11). All who are born again, from the beginning until the end, are born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
They didn't have the Spirit until the day of Pentecost. Jesus told them that he would send it to them. They didn't have it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#52
James 2:26
“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If one says MY faith saved me then that person has worked for their own idea of salvation.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

The "faith," mentioned in Eph 2:8, is not man's faith, but is Jesus's faith (Gal 2:16). The unregenerate person does not have spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), until he has been born again (Eph 2:1-5) with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
As you have quoted from James 2:26, the body without the spirit is dead. (1 Cor 2:14). also harmonizes with this fact.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#53
You are right. The natural man cannot receive the things of God for they are foolishness to him.

But we have to be careful here, the bible clearly states that we (who are called) can reject the things of God even after receiving them, as a dog returns to it's vomit.

I like to say that faith is the doorway into God's kingdom, but as James says faith without works is dead. (I know this statement can lead us into man's arguments and debates concerning Calvinism and Arminianism ). But I will not go there as God would rather that I stay within his word only, and come to my own conclusions. (Let each man be convinced within his own mind.)

The important point is that God's omnipotence and sovereignty is so great and transcends everything that we ought to fear overstepping our bounds and not speak where God has not spoken. It is important that we acknowledge God's sovereignty, it is infinite, therefore while we are operating in one-dimensional mode, God is operating in infinite-dimensional mode.

Maybe that was why Paul could say in 2nd Corinthians 12:
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Be careful what you say before God: Let your words be few before God, for we are men and God is not a man.
God will always within his own time enlighten us to his great truths, but only in his own time.
I am a firm believer that there are no contradicting scriptures, and that they all must harmonize to understand truths, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit within us.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#54
They didn't have the Spirit until the day of Pentecost. Jesus told them that he would send it to them. They didn't have it.
The three-in-one Godhead has three different functions. The Son is a quickening spirit (1 Cor 15:45). God is our Father, by adoption (Eph 1:5), and the Holy Spirit is the revealater, however, the Holy Spirit, also, has different functions. He indwells us when God quickens us to the new spiritual life (Eph 2:5), just as he did to the old testament saints. He is, also, a reavelater of the things that Jesus taught, given to God's adopted children on Pentecost.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#55
They didn't have the Spirit until the day of Pentecost. Jesus told them that he would send it to them. They didn't have it.
Do you think that Isaiah 63:11 should be ignored? does not all scriptures supposed to harmonize?
 
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pablocito

Guest
#56
I am a firm believer that there are no contradicting scriptures, and that they all must harmonize to understand truths, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit within us.
Absolutely no contradictions whatsoever, even when we are waiting on God to bring clarity to some very hard verses that when they are revealed will increase our faith where there will be no path backwards, only forward for us.
 
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pablocito

Guest
#57
Hey Pablocito, hang in there. I am still not too well versed with scripture but now I know that praying really helps. My first real advance was the realization that the 1st verse of psalm 1 was not who I was or even wanted to be, Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. That verse didn't come close to describing my life. So decide if you would like to be like verse 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

I repeat psalms 1:1 to myself often, as recent as yesterday, so that I do not forget who I am, especially when outside and exposed to many distractions.
Thanks for the encouragement as many times in the past I thought I was becoming as Elijah was, when he thought that he was the only one serving God. God told him there were 7000 others.
 
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pablocito

Guest
#58
Some of the “it’s not an easy road” bit is actually that we aren’t perfectly walking according to God’s commands. Many challenges, trials, tribulations, hardships, and discipline actually come from God trying to either protect us from something worse, teach us something else, or divert us back to a correct path.

Independently of walking the strait and narrow, there can still be many problems in the world, but Jesus still overcame the world.
I was introduced to Jeremiah 24 the other day for the first time. And it is the perfect chapter for understanding God's chastisement. I am going to retell it here just for your perusal.

The local story in Jeremiah’s days was that God called Jeremiah to tell his people to lay down their arms and give themselves up to Nebuchadnezzar to be carried away into Babylon.

This was due to their sins and their unrepentant ways. This was God’s way of chastising them. Their temple would be desolated and they would be in Babylon for 70 years in order to learn not to sin.

The kings of Judah at this point tried to punish Jeremiah and refused to do what God said. (This was the first problem — disobedience to the word of God.) They even tried to enlist Egypt to fight with them against Babylon. None of that worked.

Actually those that went to Babylon, God was protecting them, as God would bring them back and rebuild his temple. (Maybe you call this a sort of purging of God’s people. Removing the good figs from the bad figs)

Those who refused to go or who fled to Egypt or stayed back, God would destroy.

This truly is an example of true believers in today’s world who are accepting of God’s chastisement in their lives for good. Those who refuse chastisement will eventually be destroyed.

God is sovereign and infinite in all his ways and unknown to most Christians today, faith in Jesus Christ is only the first step, it must be followed through with obedience, as in Rev 3 when he spoke to his servants in the church of Laodecia.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus threatened to spit out the servants of his church if they did not stop being lukewarm.
 
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pablocito

Guest
#59
OK, I read all the posts on the first page, and some of them are very well said! But I didn't see the word that I believe nails it the best.

That word is "trust". To say "I have faith in....." is to mean "I trust.......".

Salvation is a trust issue. Do you believe that God exists? Do you believe what God promises? Do you trust God?

One won't drive over a bridge that they don't trust. One won't believe a politician that they don't trust. (hopefully).

Those who believe the promise of God about His Son also trust what God promises.

Trust is a word similar to "believe in". (a synonym) But to me it also seems to have an added connotation of endearment (like the love of a spouse for their partner, in their marriage).

So you might just be right that this word going to the bull-eye, as a spouse has to know their partner well enough before they can truly believe in them in order to marry them.

I guess there are many who claim to have faith in God, without having true knowledge of God, and that could be called unfeigned faith, similar to what we call infatuation or puppy love in human relationships.
 
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pablocito

Guest
#60
Greek word for hope
HELPS Word-studies
1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

You expect your hope to appear in this physical world ------hope is always in the future ---

God will supply all your needs --------a JOB is a need -----you apply for the job ------your hope is expecting to get the job -----you should always have your neck stretched out in expectation of receiving your hope ----
What you have said above is completely new to me and sounds like something I definitely would want to investigate. It would probably open up a brand new world to me.

I have never considered studying the Greek or Hebrew words in the bible, but if what you say is true then I can now understand the bible saying that truth would be called a lie and a lie the truth.

Also spiritual meanings are from God and they are as sure in their promises as night follows day.

Someone asked me today why God used the Greek language instead of the Roman language (Latin) for his word. I guess the Greek language must have been considered perfect for the spiritual senses that God wanted to convey to his people.