Trinity or Unity

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phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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also, in the original Greek, they use ESSENCE. it was not until 1,100 years later they used Person. so it's not wrong to not want to use Person because Person is not the True Translation.
Tertullian (160-220 ad) used 'person', Augustine (354-439ad) also uses it.

The three persons are of one by unity of essence (Tertullian). So the Father, Son, Spirit are one being (essence).

The word person is not used in the sense of a seperate beings. The three persons - Co equal, co-eternal are one in unity of essence. Yet three distinct persons.

Plus I would agree with Turtullian, that 1 Corinthians 15:24 on its own shows personhood -

Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] delivers the kingdom to God the Father.

There two persons right there! Yet in being they are one.
 

wattie

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Feb 24, 2009
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Tertullian (160-220 ad) used 'person', Augustine (354-439ad) also uses it.

The three persons are of one by unity of essence (Tertullian). So the Father, Son, Spirit are one being (essence).

The word person is not used in the sense of a seperate beings. The three persons - Co equal, co-eternal are one in unity of essence. Yet three distinct persons.

Plus I would agree with Turtullian, that 1 Corinthians 15:24 on its own shows personhood -

Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] delivers the kingdom to God the Father.

There two persons right there! Yet in being they are one.
Okay... that makes me a little less hung up on the use of persons
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Tertullian (160-220 ad) used 'person', Augustine (354-439ad) also uses it.

The three persons are of one by unity of essence (Tertullian). So the Father, Son, Spirit are one being (essence).

The word person is not used in the sense of a seperate beings. The three persons - Co equal, co-eternal are one in unity of essence. Yet three distinct persons.

Plus I would agree with Turtullian, that 1 Corinthians 15:24 on its own shows personhood -

Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] delivers the kingdom to God the Father.

There two persons right there! Yet in being they are one.
really only matters what the Bible states. the most original Greek states Substance/Essence.

Hebrews 1:3 who, being the effulgence of his glory and the exact image of his substance
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Then comes the end, when he [Jesus] delivers the kingdom to God the Father.

There two persons right there! Yet in being they are one.
which makes it more interesting knowing that the Father is dwelling inside Jesus when Jesus delivers the kingdom to the Father.
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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i know all of what you're saying, but still we have Jesus as you have explained and then we have what John tells us in chapter 14 about the Father living inside Jesus doing the Father's works and such.

if the Father is being Omnipresent on His Throne and also inside Jesus doing His Own Works, how does this show us they are not the same Being? it proves how Jesus is the Expressed Image to the Invisible God, the Father. but if the Father can be in multiple places at one time, why does it mean we are looking at 2 Separate Persons then? the more i look at this and examine it, i am no longer convinced. that bothers me. are my eyes being opened to something i could not see before?
The Bible is clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT came on Jesus at His Baptism. Born again Christians are ALL infilled by THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT. It's what makes us "Christians".
 

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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which makes it more interesting knowing that the Father is dwelling inside Jesus when Jesus delivers the kingdom to the Father.

And Jesus dwells in the Father.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father (John 14:10a). This alone removes the thrust of your argument.

Jesus dwells in the Father and the Father dwells in the Son. With each dwelling in one another, we see this pattern in the way God dwells with his people..

This closeness of Father and son is revealed even more clearly in John 10:30 - 'I and the Father are one'. The exact same language is used of the unity church (John 17:21).

-----"The unity of the church does not destroy the individuality of believers, Neither does the unity of the Father and the Son destroy the individuality of either ( quote D. Macleod - shared life)."

John 14 is a great trinitarian chapter.

I will ask the Father and he will give you another comforter (v14).

Jesus is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. And although the Holy Spirit is another helper distinct from Jesus, he will leave us as orphans he will come to us v18, again this unity of being (essence).
 

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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really only matters what the Bible states. the most original Greek states Substance/Essence.

Hebrews 1:3 who, being the effulgence of his glory and the exact image of his substance

Yep in Christ YHWH is revealed. What is substance, we could say essence, or easier to under stand 'being', or nature. You could translate it better this way.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.


Or like this,

3#He is the radiance of the glory of God and h the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power..
 

montana123

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Oct 9, 2021
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This may seem a strangely basic issue to many, as they have this matter entrenched in their mind, but my background makes me unsure of things. I'll briefly elaborate, although at the moment, I'm not thinking as clearly as I otherwise would.
I was not born into a Christian (or any other religious) home and in my teens was a vehement atheist. I was later more questioning and when I was 26, I met people from a religious group called "The Way" (I don't know how many readers have heard of them). They were unitarians (with a small "u" - not the main Unitarian church). At that time, I knew almost nothing about the Bible and precious little about science.
They invited me to attend their meetings, which after a bit I did. I bought some of their literature.
After reading something of theirs, I was stricken with terror. It was about the unforgivable sin. They rendered the matter as follows - paraphrasing:- "He who is born of God has eternal life and the love of God. He who is born of the Devil has eternal death and the hate of the Devil. You cannot repent of seed - it is permanent".
I thought about what I may have done in the past and my former vehemently ungodly attitude.
During the next few months, I frantically interacted with many (nominally) Christian people and denominations, trying to glean knowledge. On the whole to a lesser extent, this attempt at learning and uncertainty has been with me ever since - I'm now 63.
I've "seen" things from both Trinitarian and Unitarian perspectives. I'd say, in the NT, there is, at least on prima facie considerstion, some material that supports either view.
I'd be interested in reading others' (preferably Bible-based) reasoning on this matter.
There are some things I do not understand concerning a trinity.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Why would the Son be called the everlasting Father.

Some people say the Son is an adopted Father but Jesus taught we only have one Father.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as being God.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Jesus is the name of the Father.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Why is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Jesus.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Samaritans were baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Gentiles were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Why were Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles, all baptized in the name of Jesus.

That means Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

And Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but titles, and it says name singular not plural.

The way I see it is there is one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

Not 3 Gods in a trinity but the 3 ways God has made Himself known designated by titles.

Father- Creator of all things and parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Which the Bible says there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given to Him in heaven and earth.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies thy footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all.

It seems to mean that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all which seems like the Son being at the right hand of God is a temporary role until His enemies are conquered and then the Son will not be at the right hand anymore.

It seems like the only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which Jesus said if you have seen Him you have seen the Father.

Holy Ghost- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

The Bible says Let us make man in our image which some people say it is a trinity.

In the Old Testament God said let us make man in our image.

In the New Testament it says that Adam was made in the figure of Him to come who is Jesus.

So the image of God that Adam was created in is the image of Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh, which means that it is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.

So God created Adam in the image that He would show up in the future which is an innocent nature in flesh which Adam was created with an innocent nature in flesh, but Adam was a living soul and Jesus was a quickening spirit.

That means the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, because He is part of the image that God created Adam.

So it seems like it is saying let us make man in our image is God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.

This is how I interpret the Bible and am not trying to argue with people about a trinity but I do not see a trinity.

If there is a trinity can someone explain it because it does not make sense to me.

I do not want to get banned but I do not understand a trinity with all this information that seems like there is only one God.

Why does the Bible say there is only one God the Father if there is a trinity and why would the Son be called the everlasting Father, and if the Son has no beginning as God why is He called the Son when He would have no Father, and if the Son is God and He has a beginning the Bible says there was no God formed before God and no God shall be formed after Him.
 
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And Jesus dwells in the Father.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father (John 14:10a). This alone removes the thrust of your argument.

Jesus dwells in the Father and the Father dwells in the Son. With each dwelling in one another, we see this pattern in the way God dwells with his people..

This closeness of Father and son is revealed even more clearly in John 10:30 - 'I and the Father are one'. The exact same language is used of the unity church (John 17:21).

-----"The unity of the church does not destroy the individuality of believers, Neither does the unity of the Father and the Son destroy the individuality of either ( quote D. Macleod - shared life)."

John 14 is a great trinitarian chapter.

I will ask the Father and he will give you another comforter (v14).

Jesus is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. And although the Holy Spirit is another helper distinct from Jesus, he will leave us as orphans he will come to us v18, again this unity of being (essence).
but the Father not only dwelled inside the body of Jesus but was doing the Talking and Works. Jesus would not be doing that to the Father.
 

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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but the Father not only dwelled inside the body of Jesus but was doing the Talking and Works. Jesus would not be doing that to the Father.
Acts 2:22ff will shed some light on this matter.

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God.

Jesus being fully man (and fully divine), descended from glory into divine condescension and humility. To do the will of the one who sent him (John 6:38). Taking on human nature and uniting it to the divine "The God-man" Christ/Messiah. So that dinners have a mediator between us and YHWH (God).

Christ is one with God by reason of his eternal essence and, one with us by reason of his humanity (1 Tim 2:5-6).

Christ looking forward, to ascending back with the Father, from his mission as the suffering servant, back to his glory. (taking the form of a servant he humbled himself).

Christ descended to do his Father's will of serving perfectly, total submissive obedience to the law. As Bickersteth states - "of exhibiting a Divine model of self denial; how otherwise could he declare his mission" I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me". Christ is now the finisher of the Christian faith.

As MAN (Christ) working his miracles not by virtue of his divinity that is inherent in him, but by virtue of a perfect faith in the power of the father; a faith that is exemplified without defect and constant, victorious and without defeat; and example for us. As Bickersteth asserts "How otherwise could he reveal the secret and entire dependence of his soul on God, than in language such as this -" I can of mine own self do nothing. "." The Father that dwelleth in, he dierh the works".

These passages affirm his proper humanity, and his humble mission as a servant.

Maybe now you will he see how in their unity of essence they both dwell (along with the Holy Spirit) and yet Christ in his mission as servant submits to the will of the Father.

And again quiting Bickersteth - His will, therefore as man, was subjected to that of his Father: as God, was ever in perfect harmony with his father's will, but was self existent, free, efficacious.

With biblical certainty we can say with great joy:

We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:1; John 10:30; John 4:24)

And why with great joy. I will give the greatest reason. Because it is true. Do we not meditate on the truth God has revealed.

Excuse spelling mistakes etc, doing this on phone. And best of all enjoy your weekend.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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First - I don't have a Bible with me at the moment, so it's possible I'll make mistakes.
You say the unforgivable sin is a life-long denial of Christ. How do you square that with Jesus saying "Anyone who 'speaks a word against'"...?
That doesn't sound like a life-long rejection to me.
That is not what I said. It calling the Holy Spirit evil. Some Christians have been good at that for a very long time. Anything miraculous was considered by many to be the work of the devil. Are those people in, or going to, hell? I don't know.

Paul was a blasphemer. He watched Stephen being stoned to death. Did he see or hear of Stephen's miraculous powers? If he did, then he failed to acknowledge the source. So did Paul blaspheme the Holy Spirit? I don't see how he could not be guilty. Yet he was forgiven.
 

AndrewMorgan

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Jul 10, 2022
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That is not what I said. It calling the Holy Spirit evil. Some Christians have been good at that for a very long time. Anything miraculous was considered by many to be the work of the devil. Are those people in, or going to, hell? I don't know.

Paul was a blasphemer. He watched Stephen being stoned to death. Did he see or hear of Stephen's miraculous powers? If he did, then he failed to acknowledge the source. So did Paul blaspheme the Holy Spirit? I don't see how he could not be guilty. Yet he was forgiven.

The way I see it is:- Paul had a background of strict Judaism. He had a zeal for God. When he was persecuting Christians, he thought he was doing the right thing and not "fighting" God.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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There are some things I do not understand concerning a trinity.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Why would the Son be called the everlasting Father.

Some people say the Son is an adopted Father but Jesus taught we only have one Father.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as being God.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Jesus is the name of the Father.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Why is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Jesus.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Samaritans were baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Gentiles were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Why were Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles, all baptized in the name of Jesus.

That means Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

And Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but titles, and it says name singular not plural.

The way I see it is there is one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

Not 3 Gods in a trinity but the 3 ways God has made Himself known designated by titles.

Father- Creator of all things and parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Which the Bible says there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given to Him in heaven and earth.

Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies thy footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all.

It seems to mean that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all which seems like the Son being at the right hand of God is a temporary role until His enemies are conquered and then the Son will not be at the right hand anymore.

It seems like the only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which Jesus said if you have seen Him you have seen the Father.

Holy Ghost- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

The Bible says Let us make man in our image which some people say it is a trinity.

In the Old Testament God said let us make man in our image.

In the New Testament it says that Adam was made in the figure of Him to come who is Jesus.

So the image of God that Adam was created in is the image of Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh, which means that it is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh.

So God created Adam in the image that He would show up in the future which is an innocent nature in flesh which Adam was created with an innocent nature in flesh, but Adam was a living soul and Jesus was a quickening spirit.

That means the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, because He is part of the image that God created Adam.

So it seems like it is saying let us make man in our image is God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus.

This is how I interpret the Bible and am not trying to argue with people about a trinity but I do not see a trinity.

If there is a trinity can someone explain it because it does not make sense to me.

I do not want to get banned but I do not understand a trinity with all this information that seems like there is only one God.

Why does the Bible say there is only one God the Father if there is a trinity and why would the Son be called the everlasting Father, and if the Son has no beginning as God why is He called the Son when He would have no Father, and if the Son is God and He has a beginning the Bible says there was no God formed before God and no God shall be formed after Him.
One TRIUNE God.

There is no 3 separate beings here.
But expressions/essences of the one God.

The Bible has Jesus being around before He was in human formation as one with the Father as the Word.

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, which was there at the same time with the Father and the Word.

How do you know... ? Look at Genesis 1 and John 1.

When Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I' does that mean He is inferior?

No.. in the passage when He says this He then ascends afterwards to be equal with the Father as one.

It was only a greater position.. which is no longer the case.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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I think we have to remember there is only one God, so that is one essence. All three members of the Godhead are one in being(essence) yet distinct persons from each other.

An espression cannot talk, weep, think, be grieved, eat, sleep, create or renew a man's heart, an espression cannot pray to another as Jesus did to the Father (a manifestation can't do that either).

The Christian faith is a faith that believes (simply stated).

We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:1; John 10:30; John 4:24)

So there is no seperate beings only one, yet the one being (God) is eternally existent in three persons the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit.

Any belief that does not hold the orthodox Christian (biblical belief) teaching about God is to put it simply heresy. Thats oneness pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah witness'. And any other group or person that denies the orthodox Christian Faith regarding the Trinity.

This post isn't to anyone in particular but just a statement.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
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I think we have to remember there is only one God, so that is one essence. All three members of the Godhead are one in being(essence) yet distinct persons from each other.

An espression cannot talk, weep, think, be grieved, eat, sleep, create or renew a man's heart, an espression cannot pray to another as Jesus did to the Father (a manifestation can't do that either).

The Christian faith is a faith that believes (simply stated).

We believe there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:1; John 10:30; John 4:24)

So there is no seperate beings only one, yet the one being (God) is eternally existent in three persons the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit.

Any belief that does not hold the orthodox Christian (biblical belief) teaching about God is to put it simply heresy. Thats oneness pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah witness'. And any other group or person that denies the orthodox Christian Faith regarding the Trinity.

This post isn't to anyone in particular but just a statement.
I don't think calling them essences or expressions is heretical. It's different terms for the same thing.


If each of the 3 is fully God .. and God isn't changing from one to the other like modalism... then there is no difference.

I don't like persons only because it makes me think of 3 gods.

I could use the term persons and not think of separation i guess.
 

Saul-to-Paul

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Jun 5, 2017
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The Bible is clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT came on Jesus at His Baptism. Born again Christians are ALL infilled by THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT. It's what makes us "Christians".
Was the Holy Spirit in the Son of man Jesus?
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
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I don't think calling them essences or expressions is heretical. It's different terms for the same thing.


If each of the 3 is fully God .. and God isn't changing from one to the other like modalism... then there is no difference.

I don't like persons only because it makes me think of 3 gods.

I could use the term persons and not think of separation i guess.
Look at yourself. Explains God perfectly because you're made in His image.
Mind
Spirit
Body

Exodus 33
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
 

wattie

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Feb 24, 2009
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Look at yourself. Explains God perfectly because you're made in His image.
Mind
Spirit
Body

Exodus 33
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Yeah that's one good picture of 3 in one. There is also the light prism.. the various shades of colours coming thru a prism from one light going into it.. with variations of 3 colours.

You also have ice, steam and liquid. An egg has yolk shell and flesh. There is 3 in one all thru creation when looking at nature.. with God's signature on the things He made.

Part of the reasons why Islam doesn't explain God the best. Their god is not triune, and has not put his mark on creation. All things were created thru Jesus.. who was there in the beginning with the Father and the Holy Spirit.. which the Islamics don't believe.

But with the analogies.. they do stop short of fully explaining it.. because we are talking an omnipresent, omnipotent God.

I mean.. God indwells every believer through the Holy Spirit indwelling their souls. Is that millions and millions of Holy Spirits?

God is the head of each of His churches... through Jesus Christ being the Head of each church.. is that thousands of Jesus'?

So yeah.. it goes to a level beyond us.