Why can’t i speak in tongues as a Christian
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The word of truth the gospel of salvation mentioned in Ephesians is what Paul preached to the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:1-7. Paul's message consisted of the need to believe in Jesus and be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. (all baptisms in the name of Jesus are water baptisms) They believed in the message Paul gave and were rebaptized in water and afterward Paul laid hands upon all twelve and they received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, and prophesied as well.
Supernatural gifts such as speaking in tongues were for a specific people group during a specific time and for a specific purpose. The question becomes, does it apply today or not.
Specially addressing the gift of tongues, it was specifically for unbelieving Jews.
1 Corth 14:20-22
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
The first question anyone must ask themselves before trying to interpret any passage is, what are the quotations or references if any. If there are quotation or references that the apostles are bringing up then we must first go fin them in the OT read them in the OT within the context then apply understand how the apostle is applying it in the NT.
The quotation that Paul uses is from Isaiah 28, which is talking about the nation of Israel.
"Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,"
For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.
14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,"
The entire passage in Isaiah is referring to rebellious Jews of Israel, not Gentiles.
The first time we see this prophecy appearing is on the day of Pentecost where there were Jews gathered from across the world.
Acts 2:5-12
and there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
In the end Paul said these supernatural gifts would cease to exist and love would remain (1 Corth 13). To say that tongues still exist and are a "prayer language" is complete rubbish because it was never intended for believers, and on top of that, the gift itself was for the ears of the Jews/nation of Israel, not Gentiles according to the prophecy of Isaiah and as applied by Paul.
On a side note, while Jesus was on earth, he spoke to the nation if Israel and more specially to the leadership in the same way as Isaiah describes, little by little, line upon line; like spoon feeding a baby.
“Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”
Specially addressing the gift of tongues, it was specifically for unbelieving Jews.
1 Corth 14:20-22
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
The first question anyone must ask themselves before trying to interpret any passage is, what are the quotations or references if any. If there are quotation or references that the apostles are bringing up then we must first go fin them in the OT read them in the OT within the context then apply understand how the apostle is applying it in the NT.
The quotation that Paul uses is from Isaiah 28, which is talking about the nation of Israel.
"Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,"
For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.
14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,"
The entire passage in Isaiah is referring to rebellious Jews of Israel, not Gentiles.
The first time we see this prophecy appearing is on the day of Pentecost where there were Jews gathered from across the world.
Acts 2:5-12
and there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
In the end Paul said these supernatural gifts would cease to exist and love would remain (1 Corth 13). To say that tongues still exist and are a "prayer language" is complete rubbish because it was never intended for believers, and on top of that, the gift itself was for the ears of the Jews/nation of Israel, not Gentiles according to the prophecy of Isaiah and as applied by Paul.
On a side note, while Jesus was on earth, he spoke to the nation if Israel and more specially to the leadership in the same way as Isaiah describes, little by little, line upon line; like spoon feeding a baby.
“Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”
one problem with your use of Is 28.
You failed to remember what Peter said on the day of Pentacost from Joel 2:28
28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
Peter in Acts 2:15-
15For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
I didn't fail to remember; don't assume. Two things, first, it's not my "use of Is 28". I didn't use it, Paul quoted it and the context of Isaiah 28 is the nation of Israel; that shouldn't even be a debate.
And when we read Acts 2 please don't strip it from the historical context, Peter is speaking to Israelites. Luke who is writing, is writing in chronological order of events and at this time, the Gospel had not yet been delivered to the Gentiles (to the Jews first then the Greeks). Peter himself thought it was only for Jews, and was shocked when God told him to include Gentiles (Acts 10:1-15), and there was division amongst the apostles for Peter's conduct towards Gentiles (Gal 2:11-20).
So, we cannot say Acts 2:38-39 is including gentiles because at the time the audience was Jews, and the person speaking only applied it to Jews. I mean right after he quotes Joel what does Peter say:
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words:
Second, no problem at all, Joel 2 is about the future at the time of the second coming. Peter is quoting 1 section of Joel 2, but you as the reader or in Peter's case the audience would have known the entire passage and it would have been bright to their minds. So for context, let's see when Joel 2 is.
Joel 2
The Day of the Lord
2 Blow the [a]trumpet in Zion,
And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;
For the day of the Lord is coming,
Right off the bat we see Joel 2 is talking about the future at Christ second coming.
10 The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
Where do we see these images, his second coming:
Matt 24:29
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
Joel 2:15, 28-29
15 Blow the [f]trumpet in Zion,
Consecrate a fast,
Call a sacred assembly;
This is the feast of Tabernacles, which John calls the marriage super of the lamb (Rev 19:9), also Zech 14:16-20, Isaiah 25:6-9. This is when Christ is married to his body.
28“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Ezekiel 39:29, (Ez 37 is the resurrection, go back for context).
29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”
Isaiah 44
44 “Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant,
And Israel whom I have chosen.
2 Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you:
‘Fear not, O Jacob My servant;
And you, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water on him who is thirsty,
And floods on the dry ground;
I will pour My Spirit on your descendants,
And My blessing on your offspring;
Isaiah 59:20,21
“The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the Lord.
21 “As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you,
Zechariah 12:10
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Peter even clarifies to his audience that Joel is "in the last days".
Act2:17
17‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Romans 11:26-32
26 And so all Israel will be [a]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
What is the context of Joel, it's in the last days; Peter is pointing his Jewish audience to future event, the day of the Lord. And if you continue in Joel 3 it goes on talking more about the future kingdom:
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
16 The Lord also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the Lord will be a shelter for His people,
And the strength of the children of Israel.
You see the problem is that people toss out the OT thinking it's all done and finished. People don't even realize there is going to be another temple before Christ returns (Rev 11:1-3) during the tribulation with those 144,000 Jews (Rev 7:1-8) who are going to be doing the sacrificial system symbolically. We also see righteous Levites and unfaithful Levites in the future kingdom (Ezekiel 44:1-22).
If you want to say the pouring out of the spirit of god occurred 2,000 years ago on the day of Pentecost and it will occur again in the future; I'm okay with that, a dual application you can say. However, it doesn't change the fact that the purpose of tongues was specifically for the nation of Israel.
Is 28
For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
Who rejected their Messiah, Jews.
What reason is there to think that if it needs interpretation it must be the tongues of angels. There have been testimonies of people who understood the tongue as a language they knew then understood the interpretation.
Scripture says tongues are a _sign_ to them that believe not.
"And yet for that they will not hear me' is fulfilled as they tend to respond in unbelief.
Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. The interpretation edifies the church
So it isn't as common as some churches try to make it be.[/QUOTE]
God is omnipotent....
Meaning that all power comes from God. God is the originator of all knowledge and power and authority.
Now this also means that God is perfectly efficient with His use and granting of spiritual gifts of power. No unintended side effects or spillover.
So God says "No" a LOT.
Because our ways aren't His ways. We don't know the future. He does.
Meaning that all power comes from God. God is the originator of all knowledge and power and authority.
Now this also means that God is perfectly efficient with His use and granting of spiritual gifts of power. No unintended side effects or spillover.
So God says "No" a LOT.
Because our ways aren't His ways. We don't know the future. He does.
I wanted to correct something I said in my previous post (72) I stated that Paul did not have the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues for edification of the church. However, that is not what verse 19 says. Paul just says that in church he would rather speak words of understanding to teach others. So speaking in tongues without the presence of someone who has the gift of interpretation does not bring edification to the church body. Unfortunately many speak in their prayer language in church which causes confusion.
Paul does mention that he speaks in tongues more than the Corinthians but not in church. So clearly speaking in tongues differ in purpose.
1 Cor 14:18-19
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Paul does mention that he speaks in tongues more than the Corinthians but not in church. So clearly speaking in tongues differ in purpose.
1 Cor 14:18-19
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
There are many spiritual gifts, ask God for one of the higher ones to better serve the body of Christ. I Cor 12 - 14. If someone tried to teach you to speak in tongues or "prime the pump" leave that Church because all the speaking in tongues there is from the Flesh, not from God himself.
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hmmm......better to have a foundation before you try to add to the house
what I understand from scripture, is that it is God who decides who gets what; but yes of course we can pray but better with understanding that just 'I want the big one'
3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members,5 and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
Romans 12: 3-8
for myself, I did ask to receive the gift of tongues once I understood about it, having grown up in a church that did not think it wise to speak in tongues even though they thought it might be real
after that, once I got around some a experienced the inside workings of other denoms, I prayed for discernment
IMO, that is just about one of the most, if not the most, needed gift today in the body...and having discernment, the wisdom and understanding on how to used it
after all, wisdom does cry out
Is that "a" supposed to be an "and"?
"Inside" working of "other" demons?
What does this mean?
You experienced the inside working of other demons? what were the previous demons?
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looking for something to argue about? I caught your act in another thread. very impressive but no thank you
not all here speak by the Holy Spirit or consider Him. I suggest your application of the word demons in your post above advises us to be careful when trying to talk sense with you
ps: putting you on ignore
I don't throw pearls around. I don't expect you to understand that eitherI used the word demos quoting you?looking for something to argue about? I caught your act in another thread. very impressive but no thank you
not all here speak by the Holy Spirit or consider Him. I suggest your application of the word demons in your post above advises us to be careful when trying to talk sense with you
ps: putting you on ignore
Wow.
Being ignored by someone who says the experienced the inside working of other demons after speaking in tongues. Well that I suppose is a good thing.