Who or what is the rock?

[Pilgrimshope]

I understand the references to Jesus as the rock throughout scripture. Here, however, Jesus takes note that Peter's confession was the result of the revelation of this truth being given him of God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 says....and noone calls Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Yet in Matthew 7 many call Him Lord Lord but are sent away. What conclusion should be drawn from this if any?

You said it here in my opinion brother

“Here, however, Jesus takes note that Peter's confession was the result of the revelation of this truth being given him”

that’s the rock of faith “Christ “ that title has alot of meaning in the ot to say “ Jesus is the Christ the son of God “


That means your saying “ Jesus is the savior of the world who God has been promising from the beginning of creation has finally come the only salvstion God has ever promised has come forth his eternal covenant has been made “

everything the Old Testament prophecies of the messiah and son of God is included in that belief “the Christ “and so much

it was everything Hod had been promising to save forst israel and then all the nations. The Christ would be “God manifest in the flesh “

what I mean is when I say Jesus is the Christ the son of God it means I believe Jesus is this “son of God “

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,

upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See I’m saying “ I believe this is Jesus “ and that’s only 1 example of what Christ would be and mean to mankind I’m also acknolwedging this is he

“Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything regarding salvation and Godsbultimate authority comes back to “ Jesus is the Christ the son of God “ because the Old Testament is all about the day he would come offering salvstion

does that make sense ? It’s just my own belief that in those verses the rock the church is built upon , is believing that Jesus is the one God has always been promising would come and can save us if we hear him and believe

it’s our faith in him being who the Bible says he is that’s our foundation for believing anything else. It’s like a solid foundation if we believe Jesus is the Christ and son we are going to learn about Jesus from all scripture but if we reject that he is the Christ and son it’s not going to matter to us

we would be like those who think Jesus hasn’t yet come but one day the Christ will arrive and offer salvation . And wouldn’t be able to understand how important this statement is

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Throughout the ages they were waiting on the fulfillment of all those ot promises of the Christ and son of God and now the most important moment in the history of mankind has come

to recognize it and stand on that belief is a Christian’s foundation the founding rock of faith

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Level72]

Look at what Jesus told the Demon possessed man of Gadarenes....Jesus just finished sending a herd of pigs slated for worship of false gods into the Sea of Gallilee...that were in Israel!. But He doesn't tell the man to denounce sin....

He tells him to tell everyone how much God has done for him.

I think it's a recurring theme.

Look at Malachi 6:8. It tells us again to do righteousness and to walk HUMBLY WITH our God...not to denounce sin in others as if we had the authority....

Telling others how they are wrong is never going to win friends or influence people....giving morality lessons doesn't cut the mustard either.

Jesus did say to Mary Magdilene after there was no man who was able to cast the first stone at her. Jesus said " I dont judge you either, but go and sin no more". I hope I quoted that right. This was just at the top of my head.
Much love

 

[Cameron143]

I took the point in saying that those called to holiness can walk into a hub of sin apart from the call of sin, and not so much to call out the sin, as is commonly encouraged using example of John the Baptist though that is closer to a call to repentance being that the kingdom of heaven was at hand, as in future. However, having come, Jesus declared the kingdom is within you, in our midst, and so is here, today, that is done. So then, we should behave accordingly as it is so, even within the hub of darkness. I believe this witness speaks volumes over shouting, "Repent!" Paraphrasing JohnDB's commentary, "when did Jesus ever exclaim to anyone, 'Repent!'"? On the contrary, the closest He ever came to it was when he told the adulterous after asking her, "does anyone condemn you?", and she answered, "no one." He said (and I believe in the spirit of peace heralding the arrival of our sabbath rest), "Go, and sin no more."

I do agree that speaking about sin before exercising grace is not the example of Jesus. But after His demonstration of grace He does call her to holiness.

 

[Cameron143]

No....
The question was "What does God want me to do?"
Do righteousness and to walk humbly with God...meaning that you don't consider yourself the morality police.

I do agree with this. But at some point after grace is demonstrated and there is continued sin is it appropriate to mention a person's failure themselves to do justice or you leave that to the Holy Spirit alone?

 

[JohnDB]

I do agree with this. But at some point after grace is demonstrated and there is continued sin is it appropriate to mention a person's failure themselves to do justice or you leave that to the Holy Spirit alone?

It depends upon the personal relationship you have with that person.

If no real relationship but merely an acquaintance...you let it alone.

 

[Level72]

I do agree with this. But at some point after grace is demonstrated and there is continued sin is it appropriate to mention a person's failure themselves to do justice or you leave that to the Holy Spirit alone?

I think that one must establish what sin is. What does God consider sin? Many think one is committing when they are not, and many are committing sin when they don't realize they are. So in my opinion what God considers sin should be stamped in our hearts and mind.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I think that one must establish what sin is. What does God consider sin? Many think one is committing when they are not, and many are committing sin when they don't realize they are. So in my opinion what God considers sin should be stamped in our hearts and mind.

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided.

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

 

[arthurfleminger]

So?????? Why did Jesus change Simon's name to Peter, which translates to rock at that time? Why did God change Abram's name to Abraham, which translates into exalted father. Why did God change Jacob's name to Israel by which God promised Jacob/Israel that he would inherit all the promises made to Abraham.

When God changed someone's name it was done for significant purpose.

It's pretty far fetched to think that Jesus, God, would change Simon's name to Peter, rock, and refer to some other rock in the very next clause of the sentence.

Many fool themselves into thinking that Bible readers have to be able to translate the Bible in Greek to understand it and that's nonsense. If we need to know Greek, then the Bible is worthless to us.

The passages about Jeuse, Peter, and the rrock in this thread are straightforward and their meaning is clear, unless you don't want them to mean what you want them to mean. And if you don't want them to mean what they clearly say, then you need to convince everyone that they need to learn Greek.

 

[Level72]

I think that one must establish what sin is. What does God consider sin? Many think one is committing when they are not, and many are committing sin when they don't realize they are. So in my opinion what God considers sin should be stamped in our hearts and mind.

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1John3:4

 

[Level72]

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided.

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

Thank you
Much love

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

Peter is referred to as petros which is a piece of a rock.

In Matthew the rock is referred to as petra a mass of rock.

Which Jesus is referred to as the rock for He is the head of the Church and the cheif cornerstone.

But Peter was the first person added to the Church built upon Christ which Paul said the Church is like a building where the saints are built upon each other.

If it referred to Peter then it means he was the first person added to the Church built upon Christ then the rest of the Church would be built upon Peter.

But Jesus is the foundation of the Church and the rock meaning for Peter and the rock in Matthew 16:18 are different in name and the size of them.

Peter is a piece of rock where the rock in Matthew is a mass of rock.

amen!

Jesus is the cornerstone

Petwr and the apostles were all foundation stones..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think that one must establish what sin is. What does God consider sin? Many think one is committing when they are not, and many are committing sin when they don't realize they are. So in my opinion what God considers sin should be stamped in our hearts and mind.

I think jesus answers this question.

Love the lord your God, and your neighbor,,

failure to do this in any part of our life is sin.. (thats why its called works of the flesh. You are putting your needs above the needs of others)

 

[Live4Him3]

Now I don't know about you but if my holy teacher takes me to an orgy (after studying hard for three years) I'm instinctively going to want to say something about the goings on in the background....wouldn't you?

If you think Jesus took his disciples to an orgy, then you're even more lost than I originally thought you were.

 

[wattie]

In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says: And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Who or what is the rock Jesus is referring to?

He is referring to Himself. Peter's name in Greek is a small piece of rock... Jesus name is a big piece of rock.

Petra and Petros.. can't remember which is small and big.

If that isn't enough to establish it is Jesus.. Jesus has His local assembly (NT church) before Pentecost, in action with the disciples. Also Peter is the main leader at the church I'm Jerusalem.. but not the Head.

 

[Cameron143]

He is referring to Himself. Peter's name in Greek is a small piece of rock... Jesus name is a big piece of rock.

Petra and Petros.. can't remember which is small and big.

If that isn't enough to establish it is Jesus.. Jesus has His local assembly (NT church) before Pentecost, in action with the disciples. Also Peter is the main leader at the church I'm Jerusalem.. but not the Head.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

 

[pottersclay]

Ive read most of the responces here it it has open many doors to the meaning of the rock.
Has anyone ever considered what peter had said? How dangerous his responce was?
Not to change the course of this thread but this is really never mentioned.
In the eyes of the jewish beliefs this was blasphemy. For Jesus to except his answer was also blasphemy.

 

[Cameron143]

Ive read most of the responces here it it has open many doors to the meaning of the rock.
Has anyone ever considered what peter had said? How dangerous his responce was?
Not to change the course of this thread but this is really never mentioned.
In the eyes of the jewish beliefs this was blasphemy. For Jesus to except his answer was also blasphemy.

All voices and perspectives are welcome and all directions.
Actually it wasn't blasphemy. It was truth. And the Jewish community should have been the first to recognize this.

 

[Magenta]

He is referring to Himself. Peter's name in Greek is a small piece of rock... Jesus name is a big piece of rock.

Petra and Petros.. can't remember which is small and big.

The Greek uses two separate and distinct words, each having a different meaning. One is Petros,
referring to Peter, in the masculine, and the other is petra, in the feminine, referring to Jesus.
Petros is a shifting, rolling, or insecure stone, while petra is a solid, enduring, immovable rock.

Who or what is the rock? - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

 

[CS1]

In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says: And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Who or what is the rock Jesus is referring to?

6 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

The Rock is the statement of faith Peter received from the Father as Jesus said

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus is the chief Corner Stone, the one the builder rejected but is the Stone by which all must be built on.