Should Christians Follow Scripture Alone or Scripture and Traditions?
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I think this is a solid point that Biblical canon itself is a tradition.
From the Mercionite Bible to the Nicene, there were different directions taken, and we take by faith that the tradition of the canon we hold is the correct one.
Well, firstly, I quoted 3 sources earlier. Any thoughts on that? First, 2 Macc 12:46, written before the NT. When the Canon of the Bible was determined in the 4th Century, using Church Tradition, these books, 1 and 2 Maccabees, were included in it. Luther took it out, after more than 1000 years of it being in the Canon, because he could not explain why it taught Purgatory. But purgatory is also taught in the NT in 1 Cor 3:13-15; it says some Christians are rewarded for their good works done in faith, while other Christians are not, but suffer loss and are saved only through fire. Finally, from the earliest ages after Christ and His Apostle, as is historically demonstrable, the Christian Church prayed for the departed, which shows a belief in purgatory.
Where is Tradition preserved? (1) in the writings of the Church Fathers, some of whom were direct disciples of the Apostles. (2) in the liturgies of the Churches, e.g. the Church of Jerusalem (of which St. James, who wrote the Epistle we have in the Bible, was first Bishop) has the Liturgy of St. James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_of_Saint_James and finally (3) in the Ecumenical Councils. As I said, most churches, including Anglican, Lutheran Churches etc profess the Nicene Creed.
Take another example? Should Churches baptize infants? Tradition says yes. Origen wrote: "The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit." https://heidelblog.net/2020/05/orig...practice-of-infant-baptism-from-the-apostles/ Catholic/ Orthodox and Anglican/Methodist Churches do this, and Martin Luther agreed on this point.
But based on Luther's own principles, including Sola Scriptura, the Anabaptists first rejected the practice in the 16th century, something unheard of in 1500 years before that, in either East or West. And Luther could not answer/refute them.
Actually, the answer is simple: If Luther had consulted the Church Fathers, he would have found the answer. Tradition agrees with Scripture. There's no question of Tradition contradicting Scripture. It just makes a doctrine implicitly contained in Scripture more explicit, as the Nicene Creed does for the Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity. So, is there Biblical Evidence for Baby/Infant Baptism? Yes. (1) On Pentecost, St. Peter says in Acts 2 the promise of Baptism and the Spirit is for you and for your children, showing no one is excluded: "38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
(2) Second, the Apostles baptized whole households: "At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized." (Acts 16:33)
Again, it shows no one was excluded. Baptism has replaced Circumcision, as Col 2:11 indicates. Circumcision was given even to infants. And so Baptism also is. In fact, so widely known was this in the Early Church that some claimed Baptism must be given on the 8th day after Birth only, as Circumcision was.
There are other pieces of Biblical Evidence too, but these will suffice for now. What I'm saying is studying the history of the Tradition of the Early Church makes it easier - Origen says the Church received from the Apostles the Tradition of baptizing infants. That shows Infant Baptism is of Apostolic Origin.
And so, Apostolic Tradition, from the Early Church, is useful in settling the question of what the Apostles handed down. St. Paul the Apostle tells the Churches to hold fast to that Tradition the Apostles handed on.
God Bless.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
II Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.3.16-17.NKJV
There the Bible teaches Scripture alone.
II Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.3.16-17.NKJV
There the Bible teaches Scripture alone.
To be more to the point..
But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
II Timothy 3:14-17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.3.14-17.NKJV
But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
II Timothy 3:14-17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.3.14-17.NKJV
people who were raised and need a crutch will always input man's Traditions equal to Scripture. people who go solely by the Words of Christ will never consort themselves to the idealism's behind Creeds.
Jesus did and scripture does give us tradition. Baptism and the Lord's Supper, scripture tells us how to operate as the body of Christ. These are all traditions.Correct! The scriptures come from God and Jesus Christ is The Word of God.
WHO gave us traditions? NOT God.
WHO should we follow… the Giver of the scriptures or the giver of traditions?
Now granted some created other traditions and cause problem by them but that does not mean we have no tradition at all.
1 Corinthians 11:16 even uses the word tradition, saying if anyone disputes this, we have no other tradition. Some translate it as practice and others as customs. But thats what a tradition is, our practices and customs.
Its a Christian tradition to pray together when we come together, to read scriptures together when we come together, its our tradition to baptize converts and new believers, and to take Communion. Its also our tradition that we sing songs of praise and worship to about God and His wonderous works. These are traditions.
Martin Luther on Infant Baptism:
"
What did the great reformer think about this?
XIII A.
Part Fourth: Of Infant Baptism.
Here a question occurs by which the devil through his sects, confuses the world, namely, Of Infant Baptism, whether children also believe, and are justly baptized. Concerning this we say briefly: Let the simple dismiss this question from their minds, and refer it to the learned. But if you wish to answer then answer thus: —
That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ is sufficiently proved from His own work, namely, that God sanctifies many of them who have been thus baptized, and has given them the Holy Ghost; and that there are yet many even to-day in whom we perceive that they have the Holy Ghost both because of their doctrine and life; as it is also given to us by the grace of God that we can explain the Scriptures and come to the knowledge of Christ, which is impossible without the Holy Ghost. But if God did not accept the baptism of infants, He would not give the Holy Ghost nor any of His gifts to any of them; in short, during this long time unto this day no man upon earth could have been a Christian. Now, since God confirms Baptism by the gifts of His Holy Ghost as is plainly perceptible in some of the church fathers, as St. Bernard, Gerson, John Hus, and others, who were baptized in infancy, and since the holy Christian Church cannot perish until the end of the world, they must acknowledge that such infant baptism is pleasing to God. For He can never be opposed to Himself, or support falsehood and wickedness, or for its promotion impart His grace and Spirit. This is indeed the best and strongest proof for the simple-minded and unlearned. For they shall not take from us or overthrow this article: I believe a holy Christian Church, the communion of saints."
Taken from: https://www.apuritansmind.com/covenant-theology/infant-baptism-by-dr-martin-luther/
"
What did the great reformer think about this?
XIII A.
Part Fourth: Of Infant Baptism.
Here a question occurs by which the devil through his sects, confuses the world, namely, Of Infant Baptism, whether children also believe, and are justly baptized. Concerning this we say briefly: Let the simple dismiss this question from their minds, and refer it to the learned. But if you wish to answer then answer thus: —
That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ is sufficiently proved from His own work, namely, that God sanctifies many of them who have been thus baptized, and has given them the Holy Ghost; and that there are yet many even to-day in whom we perceive that they have the Holy Ghost both because of their doctrine and life; as it is also given to us by the grace of God that we can explain the Scriptures and come to the knowledge of Christ, which is impossible without the Holy Ghost. But if God did not accept the baptism of infants, He would not give the Holy Ghost nor any of His gifts to any of them; in short, during this long time unto this day no man upon earth could have been a Christian. Now, since God confirms Baptism by the gifts of His Holy Ghost as is plainly perceptible in some of the church fathers, as St. Bernard, Gerson, John Hus, and others, who were baptized in infancy, and since the holy Christian Church cannot perish until the end of the world, they must acknowledge that such infant baptism is pleasing to God. For He can never be opposed to Himself, or support falsehood and wickedness, or for its promotion impart His grace and Spirit. This is indeed the best and strongest proof for the simple-minded and unlearned. For they shall not take from us or overthrow this article: I believe a holy Christian Church, the communion of saints."
Taken from: https://www.apuritansmind.com/covenant-theology/infant-baptism-by-dr-martin-luther/
read the Verse before what you've posted:Here is the Word of God telling us that, in addition to written epistles, the unwritten traditions orally handed down to the Church are to be faithfully held on to by the Church/Christians.
2 Thess 2:15
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
14 to which he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
it's only about the Gospel of Christ.
where does Jesus worship Mary?
where does Jesus call Mary queen of Heaven?
where does Jesus say to confess our sins to Leaders of the Church?
where does Jesus create the order of the Nun?
Tradition doesn't contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It rather makes more explicit what is implicitly contained in Scripture. Any thoughts on the two examples discussed above, of infant baptism and purgatory?
Regarding the rest, no one worships Mary but only honors/venerates her as Mother and Queen. In Rev 12:1, a Woman is shown crowned with 12 Stars in Heaven. Many Early Church Fathers interpret this as Mary, and we do also. I believe Luther did as well. Recently, Queen Elizabeth passed away, and everyone honored her. Were they worshipping her? No, just honoring or venerating.
Here are some thoughts from Martin Luther on the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ. God Bless.
https://www.churchpop.com/2017/03/0...rom-martin-luther-on-the-blessed-virgin-mary/
Regarding the rest, no one worships Mary but only honors/venerates her as Mother and Queen. In Rev 12:1, a Woman is shown crowned with 12 Stars in Heaven. Many Early Church Fathers interpret this as Mary, and we do also. I believe Luther did as well. Recently, Queen Elizabeth passed away, and everyone honored her. Were they worshipping her? No, just honoring or venerating.
Here are some thoughts from Martin Luther on the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ. God Bless.
https://www.churchpop.com/2017/03/0...rom-martin-luther-on-the-blessed-virgin-mary/
a Tradition is reading the Word of God and creating a Doctrine based upon it.
where does Jesus tell us to do that?
what Jesus Commanded was this:
19 Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you
nowhere did he say make traditions, creeds, or doctrines. He said do as He Commanded!
Dirtman you quote correctly, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
I agree with that. But your quote from Scripture basically says that Scripture is useful and profitable for every good work. And, for sure that's not the same as saying that 'ONLY' Scripture is useful and profiitable.
Secondly, your quote states that Scripture will make us equipped for goood work but nothing about being the sole source of God's truth. I thought we didn't belieive in the necessity of good works??????????
Your quote shows the importance of Scripture, but in no way does it address 'Scripture Alone' as being the only source of God's truth.
Well, yes, He told that to His 12 Apostles, the Great Commission. Then later, in Acts, He commissioned St. Paul to do the same, and St. Paul taught us, as part of the Apostolic Teaching, in 2 Thess 2:15, to hold the Traditions received from the Apostles.
Here, we are not speaking of a tradition of man invented in say, 1850, by e.g. the Jehovah's witnesses that Jesus is not God, or something. Rather, the Tradition of what the Apostles handed down to the Church, and what the Early Church believed.
God Bless.
I wonder if those saying that scripture alone is not a teaching found in the Bible believe the same concerning the Trinity. Where is the word trinity mentioned in the Bible?
Clearly an idea can be seen in scripture that isn't labeled as such.
Clearly an idea can be seen in scripture that isn't labeled as such.
Corinthian not teach purgatory and not pray to mary
who wrote macabe?
corinthian not teach purgatory
who wrote Macc
what tradition is this ccc from
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
was Peter teach Muslim and catholic worship the same god?
no one worships Mary ???
Maybe someone should of reminded pope pius X11
FULGENS CORONA
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
PROCLAIMING A MARIAN YEAR TO COMMEMORATE THE CENTENARY OF THE
DEFINITION OF THE DOGMA OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION
“18. and proposed and confirmed by the greatest and highest decision of the Church" (Bull Ineffabilis Deus), so that to pastors and faithful there is nothing "more sweet, nothing dearer than to worship, venerate, invoke and praise with ardent affection the Mother of God conceived without stain of original sin. (Ibidem.)
33. But where -- as is the case in almost all dioceses, there exists a church in which the Virgin Mother of God is worshipped with more intense devotion, thither on stated days let pilgrims flock together in great numbers and publicly and in the open give glorious expression to their common Faith and their common love toward the Virgin Most Holy. We have no doubt that this will be done in an especial manner at the Grotto of Lourdes, where there is such ardent devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary conceived without stain of sin.
34. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman peopleâ€
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p.../hf_p-xii_enc_08091953_fulgens-corona_en.html
is this tradition harmony with the Bible?
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."