For some reason, I keep missing seeing some of these posts...
It appears you've missed the point I'd made in that post.
...and, besides that, in my viewpoint Christ only will "RETURN" ONCE, that is "to the earth," FOR the earthly Millennial Kingdom age, which is what the two references using "return" speak of:
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (parallel with Matthew 24:42-51), "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an already-wed Bridegroom, not TO BE wed to those persons [saints / blessed] in that text, at that point)... THEN "the meal [G347]" (aka the earthly MK age or at least its inauguration);
If Jesus uses a wedding feast in a parable, that doesn't mean He has to be talking about the marriage supper of the Lamb. But why would you exclude his listeners, the disciples in Matthew 24, from the bride of Christ through your interpretation? And why would He want His own disciples to be prepared for a second, second coming that is supposed to be for those who miss the first load?
If 'ye' includes them and later believers they represent, as in the church, that makes sense. But having him say 'ye' for non-church people, in your theory, doesn't make much sense.
--Luke 18:12,15,17,19 (parallel Matt25:1-13) "return"... when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with, "have thou authority over 10 cities" (note: "cities" are on the earth) and "likewise... be thou also over 5 cities"
How do you think this relates to post-trib?
The texts actually say that "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" and "our episynagoges UNTO HIM" indeed takes place UP OFF OF THE EARTH; and neither passage indicates that He continues coming on down to the earth at that point in time.
Pre-trib does not get to be the default. We should interpret what is actually in the Bible, not take some external theory and assume that happens.
Take a look at these passages from the same book:
I Thessalonians 3
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we
do to you, 13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
with all His saints. (NKJV
Commentator say 'all his saints' includes angels, or includes angels and men. First of all, if Jesus is coming with all His saints in the pre-trib scenario, that's the second, second coming, not the first. In the first, He raptures believers in the pre-trib scenario then in the second second coming He is supposed to bring them back.
But in this verse, his immediate readers are 'church' people, and Paul expects the church to be here when He comes back with all His saints. But how is it possible for the church to be hear when He comes back with ALL his saints if these church people are saints, too? We can keep reading in
this very same epistle.
I Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive
and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive
and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (NKJV)
That's how! When He returns back, we go meet Him in the air. Also notice he says 'the coming of the Lord' not 'one of the comings of the Lord.' I know you want to turn terms into long time periods. Coming of the Lord means coming of the Lord. It doesn't mean 'span of time.' The preterists try to make the coming of the Son of man mean the destruction of the temple, too. It's something like allegorical interpretation. It's redefining terms, more or less.
And the chapter divisions were added by a monk centuries later. The letter continues.
I Thessalonians 5
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others
do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and
as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.[/quote]
Notice the warning about getting drunk and being sober, and compare to the advice about the clearly post-tribulational coming of the Son of man passage Matthew 24. Notice the reference to a thief, which also shows up in the same clearly post-tribulational passage.
2Th2 especially talks about many other points in time, including the point when the man of sin will be "sitting in the temple of God, declaring..." but I think you would agree that that is not occurring at the point in time of Christ's "Second Coming to the earth"... so Paul is covering A SPANS of time...
Read the passage. The apostacy has to happen and the man of sin has to be revealed FIRST. In Matthew, the love of many grows cold, there are many false prophets that arise and deceive many. That happens before the coming of the Son of Man in the passage. The example you are using doesn't illustrate 'spans of time' here.
the disagreement comes as to what all is included in that spans of time he's covering, and as I've put in past threads, I have biblical explanation as to what spans that actually is and covers, just like all the other passages touching on this Subject do / agree.
But these arguments are just trying to figure out a way to make all the things referred to in passages refer to long time periods just so you can preserve pre-trib, in spite of the passages not looking pre-trib. But again, where is the evidence for pre-trib in the first place to justify all the unnatural interpretations of these passages? And how do you explain away the I Thessalonians 3 passage above?
yes, to commence "the TIMES OF" (which "TIMES OF" includes Israel again being called by God "My people, Israel"--which takes place BEFORE His Second Coming TO THE EARTH FOR their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)
Show scripture please that shows the fulness of the Gentiles coming in ending and Israel's blindness being ended during that seven year time, as opposed to right at his coming or some other time. People of many tribes come out of the great tribulation in Revelation 7.
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