Thief in the Night-- Pretrib or Second Coming?
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OK bro. Got it.
The thing is.....these verses lend further credence to the IMPLICATION of 2 Thes 2, where there also the Thessalonians MAY have thought that they had missed the rapture, and DEFINITELY thought that they were in the DOTL aka the 70th week of Daniel. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
The thing is.....these verses lend further credence to the IMPLICATION of 2 Thes 2, where there also the Thessalonians MAY have thought that they had missed the rapture, and DEFINITELY thought that they were in the DOTL aka the 70th week of Daniel. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
If TDW really is your mentor - when are going to adopt his [general] disposition and loose the blatent show of pride/arrogance/smugness?
Just wondering...
It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.
(not kidding)
Seriously, brother - you need to chill the attitude a bit...
Just wondering...
It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.
(not kidding)
Seriously, brother - you need to chill the attitude a bit...
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If TDW really is your mentor - when are going to adopt his [general] disposition and loose the blatent show of pride/arrogance/smugness?
Just wondering...
It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.
(not kidding)
Just wondering...
It is probably the best thing you could learn from him that would help you the most and do you the most good.
(not kidding)
You must have at least chuckled a little at that "Schrodingers cat" quip. I thought it was hilarious.
Well... Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull.
And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.
Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...
This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.
I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.
So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.
I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my [subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet...
(in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)
So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.
I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)
I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.
I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.
So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)
If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.
Maybe you can do something similar.
I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.
My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.
At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.
Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull. And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.
Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...
This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.
I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.
So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.
I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my
[subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet... (in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)
So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.
I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)
I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.
I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.
So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)
If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.
Maybe you can do something similar.
I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.
My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.
At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.
Well... Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull.
And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.
Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...
This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.
I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.
So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.
I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my [subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet...
(in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)
So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.
I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)
I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.
I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.
So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)
If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.
Maybe you can do something similar.
I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.
My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.
At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.
Sorry brother, but your dry humor seems a bit damp and your sharp wit seems a little dull. And, most of the time, it seems like I mentioned.
Your intent seems less-than-innocent most of the time. You sometimes seem to be "all about" insulting people while "lifting yourself up"...
This may just be the way it comes across; however, do understand that - this is the way it comes across.
I remember seeing it. But, I was skimming through the thread trying to get "caught up" with the thread and blew past it.
So, suffice it to say, I am not referring to everything you say - just a good bit of it - enough to be a bit of a "turn-off" when reading your posts.
I will give you this much - no one has caught on to my
[subtle] "caught up" statement-with-built-in-humor yet... (in post #766, and in this one - haha - did you notice it? pretty subtle, huh?)
So - yeah - I know what you mean there. If you say something funny, that will be the part that everyone will miss.
I am not against you, brother. You just seem to be "riding high" on a wave of egotism. (in this thread)
I generally tend to look past other people's nonsense of this kind in these situations and stick to the point of the thread topic.
I also know that I have come across to someone else on here in a way that I absolutely knew was not my real attitude/intention.
So - that is part of the reason I am saying all of this. (for your possible benefit)
If it happens, I try to resolve it by attempting to understand exactly what transpired such that the wrong idea "got across" to someone else.
Maybe you can do something similar.
I am a forgive-and-forget kind of guy.
My intent here is 'admonishment' and not 'insult'.
At the very least, you should be aware of how you are coming across.
Anyways......I am a free agent bro.
“For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more … ” (1 Corinthians 9:19)
Now, that is funny...
I know you say you are a "historicist", but at any rate, I attended a full-blown preterist "Church" a few times a long long time ago.
I figured out pretty quickly that it was a cult. Guilt-tripping, psychological beat downs, control freaks. You know the story. As for the Bible they were quite literally 100% wrong 100% of the time. As far as I could tell, they were all pretty much going to hell in a handbasket.
Anyways....have a nice evening "not an elder" guy.
That's not at all the case of what we think.
"The dead in Christ" (who will be resurrected ['to stand again'] prior to the "snatch") makes up the majority ['MOST'] (some 2000-yrs' worth of believers), whereas the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" that point ("still-living" at the time of the "snatch") are fewer in number.
I have no idea why you would come up with the idea that we "pre-tribbers" think "MOST" of the Church which is His body is "still on earth awaiting the "snatch / rapture" [IN THE AIR, by the way]. That's simply a made-up notion you incorrectly perceive of what we "think"... not actually the case.
The dead in Christ (after they are resurrected / to stand again) WILL actually be a part of the "snatch" in that sense... and it is AFTER that point (Paul says, "IN THAT DAY") that they and we will experience the "BEMA" seat, for reward ("crowns" will be awarded IN THAT DAY--not the day an individual believer DIES)
"The dead in Christ" (who will be resurrected ['to stand again'] prior to the "snatch") makes up the majority ['MOST'] (some 2000-yrs' worth of believers), whereas the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" that point ("still-living" at the time of the "snatch") are fewer in number.
I have no idea why you would come up with the idea that we "pre-tribbers" think "MOST" of the Church which is His body is "still on earth awaiting the "snatch / rapture" [IN THE AIR, by the way]. That's simply a made-up notion you incorrectly perceive of what we "think"... not actually the case.
The dead in Christ (after they are resurrected / to stand again) WILL actually be a part of the "snatch" in that sense... and it is AFTER that point (Paul says, "IN THAT DAY") that they and we will experience the "BEMA" seat, for reward ("crowns" will be awarded IN THAT DAY--not the day an individual believer DIES)
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Not the least bit convincing; because the differing translations are often not reflective of where the "definite article" ('the') is or isn't used in the Greek.
And again, there is no "article" ('a') in Greek. (It is supplied by translators.)
The supposed point of yours here, is not at all persuasive to the point of changing what it is that 1Cor15:22b-23 is saying,
"[as...]... so IN CHRIST shall [future tense] all be made alive. BUT each [a word meaning 'of more than two'] in the own ORDER / RANK: firstfruit Christ, EPieta [only then] they who ARE Christ's in the coming of Him"
BOTH of these are "FUTURE"--the first mentioned is not Christ Himself (alone)... that was back in v.20 (about the "past" event, in 32ad), now Paul is speaking of "FUTURE" things as having an "ORDER / RANK"... and they are "IN THE OWN ORDER / RANK," rather than that there remains ONLY ONE at ONE POINT IN TIME).
Said of those who will have been the LAST saints to have been martyred / killed (that is, they will be killed and die IN the second half of the future trib yrs), they will "live again" (i.e. be resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth] and reign with Christ 1000 yrs... "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART IN the resurrection the first [adjective]..." which phrase is not saying, "this is the first time anyone will have been resurrected" (as much as you want it to be saying that).
[Additionally, I know of no passage that informs us that Jesus Himself is "IN CHRIST," rather other people / believers are; There's "God was IN Christ reconciling..." but not passage that states, "JESUS HIMSELF is IN CHRIST..." or "Christ was IN CHRIST..." or the like]
And again, there is no "article" ('a') in Greek. (It is supplied by translators.)
The supposed point of yours here, is not at all persuasive to the point of changing what it is that 1Cor15:22b-23 is saying,
"[as...]... so IN CHRIST shall [future tense] all be made alive. BUT each [a word meaning 'of more than two'] in the own ORDER / RANK: firstfruit Christ, EPieta [only then] they who ARE Christ's in the coming of Him"
BOTH of these are "FUTURE"--the first mentioned is not Christ Himself (alone)... that was back in v.20 (about the "past" event, in 32ad), now Paul is speaking of "FUTURE" things as having an "ORDER / RANK"... and they are "IN THE OWN ORDER / RANK," rather than that there remains ONLY ONE at ONE POINT IN TIME).
Said of those who will have been the LAST saints to have been martyred / killed (that is, they will be killed and die IN the second half of the future trib yrs), they will "live again" (i.e. be resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth] and reign with Christ 1000 yrs... "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART IN the resurrection the first [adjective]..." which phrase is not saying, "this is the first time anyone will have been resurrected" (as much as you want it to be saying that).
[Additionally, I know of no passage that informs us that Jesus Himself is "IN CHRIST," rather other people / believers are; There's "God was IN Christ reconciling..." but not passage that states, "JESUS HIMSELF is IN CHRIST..." or "Christ was IN CHRIST..." or the like]
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cv5 said:
OK bro. Got it.
l. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Because there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, they see EVERY verse as pre-trib.
Kind of an over compensation for their lack of evidence.
OK bro. Got it.
l. At any rate, good pre-trib rapture passages for sure. I will be sure to keep these in my pre-trib passages arsenal.
2Ti 2:16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Because there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, they see EVERY verse as pre-trib.
Kind of an over compensation for their lack of evidence.