RAPTURE

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would John write "who ARE INVITED to the wedding supper" if it had already occurred 7 years before?

"the wedding feast / supper" is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom;
it is not what takes place up in heaven at the time of "our Rapture" (nor its purpose)

OK, so you believe that the wedding supper will occur "when He comes" back at the resurrection, as 1 Cor 15:23 says.

however, there is no "rapture", meaning a glorified trip to heaven.
The text states, "those HAVING BEEN INVITED [perfect participle]"... meaning, "action completed at a specific point of time in PAST (.) with results continuing into the present (--->)" ; which tells us that at the Rev19 point in the chronology, all the "INVITING" (of the plural "guestS") has been completed.[/QUOTE]
OK, all you are pointing out is that the invitation has already been given. It says nothing about the actual event has already having occurred. And looking through all the various translations on biblehub.com ALL of them are rendered "ARE invited/called".

So even though the invitation has already occurred doesn't mean the event has already occurred.

All the translators viewed v.9 as an event that was about to occur, which would be "when He comes" back to earth.

The promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age is getting ready to commence upon His RETURN to the earth, at that point. Those folks are still located on the earth upon His "return" there, and it is never said of them that they lift off the earth (or are "harpazo'd" / snatched, in any way).

I agree that none of the living believers on earth "when He comes" will be taken to heaven, but the Bible does use the words "caught up" and "gathered together" to indicate that the living believers will be lifted off the earth to meet Jesus and the dead believers from heaven "when He comes" back. And, of course, the whole host will then continue down to earth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would John write "who ARE INVITED to the wedding supper" if it had already occurred 7 years before?

"the wedding feast / supper" is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom;

Right. We agree on that. My point is directly at the pre-tribbers.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Not sure how many got married and yet you were invited to your own marriage?

Right. (agree... not a thing. lol)

The invitation, in this passage, was to "the wedding feast / supper" (which is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age which is about to commence at this point in the chronology: when He RETURNS to the earth Rev19); the invitation in this case was NOT to "the Marriage" (which pertains, instead, to the "Bride / Wife [singular]" in this passage, v.7), but rather to "the wedding feast / supper" (i.e. to the earthly MK age) and pertains distinctly to (v.9) "those [plural] having been INVITED" ("having been invited" all during the Trib years which had just unfolded upon the earth in the years immediately preceding and leading up to this point in the chronology: His RETURN to the earth Rev19 FOR the MK age).





Even Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (parallel to Matt24:42-51 or thereabouts) says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." ...THEN "the MEAL [G347--used in Matt8:11 and parallel, re: the earthly MK age]"

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So even though the invitation has already occurred doesn't mean the event has already occurred.

All the translators viewed v.9 as an event that was about to occur, which would be "when He comes" back to earth.

Right, coz "the wedding feast / supper" IS the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (at least its inauguration), which will commence upon His RETURN to the earth Rev19. The "wedding feast / supper" pertains to the "INVITED" guests [plural]" (not to the "Bride / Wife [singular]"of this passage)... and the text states, "those HAVING BEEN INVITED [perfect participle]" (that took place all throughout the Trib years which had just unfolded on the earth leading up to this point); "the wedding feast / supper" (i.e. MK age) being the next thing to take place in the chronology, from this point (Rev19)




[passages like Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 / Matt24:42-51 and Matt22:[9-]12-14 and Matt25:[1-]13 (not to mention Matt8:11 and parallel) take up the next scene, all occurring on the earth, upon His RETURN there]

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
So even though the invitation has already occurred doesn't mean the event has already occurred.

All the translators viewed v.9 as an event that was about to occur, which would be "when He comes" back to earth.

Right, coz "the wedding feast / supper" IS the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (at least its inauguration), which will commence upon His RETURN to the earth Rev19. The "wedding feast / supper" pertains to the "INVITED" guests [plural]" (not to the "Bride / Wife [singular]"of this passage)... and the text states, "those HAVING BEEN INVITED [perfect participle]" (that took place all throughout the Trib years which had just unfolded on the earth leading up to this point); "the wedding feast / supper" (i.e. MK age) being the next thing to take place in the chronology, from this point (Rev19)

So tell me, please, who are the "invited ones", if not the"Bride"? btw, even though the word "bride" and "wife" are singular, it still refers to a whole group of people.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@FreeGrace2 ,

--"a whole group of people" = the SINGULAR "Bride / Wife" (v.7--the ONE to whom "the MARRIAGE" pertains / pertained); set in contradistinction to

--"those [PLURAL] having been INVITED to the wedding feast / supper [/earthly MK age]" = those "guestS" having been invited to the wedding feast / supper (which is / will be on the earth, i.e. the earthly MK age), v.9--none of those folks [even the "saints"--the ones having accepted the "invitation"] ever lift off the earth, but are present on the earth upon His RETURN there








[2Cor11:2, Paul speaking, "For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I have betrothed you [corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present a pure/chaste virgin [singular] to Christ."]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[2Cor11:2, Paul speaking, "For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I have betrothed you [corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present a pure/chaste virgin [singular] to Christ."
Note: in Matt25:1-13, He is not coming for the purpose of "MARRYING" 10 or even 5 "virginS"--those pertain to "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" commencing upon His RETURN to the earth--no "bride" in that passage either, just like other passages pertaining to the wedding feast / supper (earthly MK age)]



____________

Let the readers note the distinction between:

--"so shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord"

--"Those [FIVE virginS - PLURAL] who were ready went in with [G3326 - ACCOMPANYING] him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut."

 

[FreeGrace2]

@FreeGrace2 ,

--"a whole group of people" = the SINGULAR "Bride / Wife" (v.7--the ONE to whom "the MARRIAGE" pertains / pertained); set in contradistinction to

--"those [PLURAL] having been INVITED to the wedding feast / supper [/earthly MK age]" = those "guestS" having been invited to the wedding feast / supper (which is / will be on the earth, i.e. the earthly MK age), v.9--none of those folks [even the "saints"--the ones having accepted the "invitation"] ever lift off the earth, but are present on the earth upon His RETURN there

[2Cor11:2, Paul speaking, "For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I have betrothed you [corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present a pure/chaste virgin [singular] to Christ."]

Again, the word "bride" or "wife" is a singular word, but when referring to the 'body of Christ' it refers to every believer.

 

[Mawake]

A.) When does the rapture occur according to Scripture?
B.) Does the rapture occur before the Second Coming of Christ?
C.) Does the rapture occur before the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ?

Answers: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.

A.) Rapture occurs at the Coming of Christ = 1 Thess 4:13-16

B.) The rapture does not occur before His Coming = 1 Thess 4:16

C.) The rapture does not occur before the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ = 1 Thess 4:16-17

Correct, there is no pre-trib rapture

 

[DavidTree]

Correct, there is no pre-trib rapture

"Man shall live by every word that proceeds out the mouth of God" - Matt 4:4

pre-trib rapture never came out of the mouth of God = not once

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@FreeGrace2 ,

both "Bride / Wife" AND "BODY of Christ" are in the SINGULAR:


--BODY of Christ ("BODY [singular] of Christ") - 1Cor12:27 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/12-27.htm
Eph 4:12 - https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/4-12.htm


-- "BRIDE / WIFE [singular]" - Rev19:7 - https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/19-7.htm






Both terms (tho in the SINGULAR) refer to multiple believers, see.




[see also Eph5:23,27,30,32, "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church"]

FreeGrace2 said:

Again, the word "bride" or "wife" is a singular word, but when referring to the 'body of Christ' it refers to every believer.

Slight of hand.

BOTH are in the SINGULAR, see.

 

[Asterismos]

The rapture is false doctrine. Ezekiel 13 will document this. Corinthians chapter 15. At the 7 th trump everyone is instantly changed from their flesh body to their spiritual body, this starts the millennium. Antichrist will arrive 6th trump, and Jesus arrives 7th trump. Amos chapter 5 will document some churches and denominations are teaching false doctrine. God will not bless that church or individual if they teach tradition of men, false doctrine. And I'm not knocking churches. Ephesians chapter 6. The gospel armour is knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Many people will be deceived by antichrist, they lack knowledge. The key past antichrist is ephesians chapter 6. Gospel armour!!.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:

Again, the word "bride" or "wife" is a singular word, but when referring to the 'body of Christ' it refers to every believer.

Slight of hand.

BOTH are in the SINGULAR, see.

Are you suggesting that the "Body of Christ" is just one person????

Get serious.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@FreeGrace2 said:

"Are you suggesting that the "Body of Christ" is just one person????"

NO.

Not any more than you are suggesting that the "singular Bride / Wife" is a just one person / woman. Hello! (pay attention, here )

FreeGrace2 said:

Again, the word "bride" or "wife" is a singular word, but when [...]

Both words refer to a corporate entity expressed in the "singular".



("but when"... what? Your words here make it sound as though one of these is indeed a corporate entity whereas the other is not, but we know that this is not the case. You're a few cards short of a full hand, see... )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The rapture is false doctrine. Ezekiel 13 will document this.

Ezekiel 13:20 is not saying what some suggest it is conveying. = )




Check out this old post of mine, covering this topic (in part)... a cpl of posts actually:

-- Post #661 - https://christianchat.com/threads/when-is-the-rapture-in-relationship-to-the-gt.187927/post-4087632

-- Post #663 (as follow-up) - https://christianchat.com/threads/when-is-the-rapture-in-relationship-to-the-gt.187927/post-4087646





[p.s. a study of the chronology of Revelation has the "6th Trumpet" taking place well-past the MID-point when there are 1260 days yet remaining... so the "6th Trumpet" event isn't even when the Antichrist / "man of sin" does the 2Th2:4 "sitteth in the temple of God" thing; again, that occurs well-before the "6th Trumpet" events]







By the way, welcome to CC ... I see you are NEW here.

Hope to see you around the boards. = )

 

[soberxp]

You shall see Jesus coming with clouds, but you never look up to the sky. SAD.LoL.

But not me.

 

[soberxp]

Of crouse, J

On the day of Rapture,what will happen first?
Is it the dead that will be raised first?
Matthew 24

BTW, Jesus dead for us and raised first.
Very clearly.

 

[1ambassador]

On the day of Rapture,what will happen first?
Is it the dead that will be raised first?
Matthew 24[/QUOTE

Yes, as Scrpture shows! Let us be reminded too that we ALL who are saved (as John 3:16; etc.) will directly following THAT moment be 'raptured' (lifted in joy) also to Heaven. It is also important to know that while being saved for Heaven, there are rewards according to our life here below: "Gold; Silver; Precious Stones; Wood; Hay; Stubble" (see Book of Revelation)--the latter three being those "carnal" (worldly saints in various degrees) will be present, but forfeiting much by their spiritual neglect here below --living to please self and not honoring our God. Let us live to honor our God and serve Him and help the lost souls while we have time now.
It one desires to discuss this and our future, they can write for some assistance at the address: [email protected] to learn more of what our God intends and has for souls here in this fallen and failing world.
--1ambassador

 

[FreeGrace2]

@FreeGrace2 said:

"Are you suggesting that the "Body of Christ" is just one person????"

NO.

Not any more than you are suggesting that the "singular Bride / Wife" is a just one person / woman. Hello! (pay attention, here )



Both words refer to a corporate entity expressed in the "singular".



("but when"... what? Your words here make it sound as though one of these is indeed a corporate entity whereas the other is not, but we know that this is not the case. You're a few cards short of a full hand, see... )

Are you trying to make a point here? Since you are the one who noted the "bride" is in the singular. How is that significant?

 

[lawrence101]

What evidence is there to presume that this verse is about something that occurs before the Tribulation?


But more than that. There is only 1 resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Dan 12:2, Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23, Rev 20:4,5

Since we know from Rev 20 that the FIRST resurrection will be for saved martyrs, and there is mention of a second resurrection 1,000 years later, which is obviously the GWT judgment, that single resurrection for believers will be "when He comes" back, per 1 Cor 15:23.

This is all very straight forward. The Bible never speaks of phases of resurrection, or multiples of them. Only 1.

In fact, the word "resurrections" does not occur in Scripture regarding the saved. It treats resurrection of the saved the same way as resurrection of the unsaved. 1 each.

Your posts make it look like you are confused.